Adding Solar Panels to PVC plumbing

My 18x36 AGP is hard plumbed with PVC. I have the ability to remove the pump via clamped connections on the skimmer side, but on the return side of the filter, *everything* is glued. That's the way it was installed.

I would like to add a couple of solar panels, but from what I have read, they need to go on the return side. That means I am going to have to cut the PVC and install some fittings.

While I am comfortable working with PVC in general, the thought of cutting the hard plumbing scares me. I guess I would just like to know if anyone has actually done it. And if I have to cut and paste, would there be any benefits to replacing the entire return run instead of just inserting fittings?

Any suggestions, recommendations, or just plain encouragement would be appreciated!

Linda
near NW Houston

Sure, I've done it. The BIG thing with cutting hard PVC is making sure you leave LOTS of room on each cut end for your new glued-on fittings.

Yet even if you are too close to a fitting at worst you'll have to replace the fitting. I like to have my ball valves with threaded ends, then glue thread fittings to the PVC and use lots of teflon tape. That way, if I have to change the pipe or the valve, I don't have to change both. So simple fittings--Male and Female threaded ends--get glued on. Quick releases and ball valves are screwed to the threaded fittings.

PVC is cheap and easy to work with. But always clean and prime before gluing. Sometimes the primer does both.

And ALWAYS use Schedule 40 or above (Sched 80) on your pool fittings. Sched 40 is pressure rated. Regular fitting are not and are SOLELY for drains. Sched 40 fittings have longer glue areas--about 1.5" while regular drain fittings only have 3/4" (about). Sched 40 is available everywhere--I buy most fittings at Home Depot.

Have no fear, working with PVC pipe is child's play :) Just cut and glue. Use primer and then put cement liberally on both sides of the connection. Wait a few seconds then insert pipe into fitting with a twisting motion and press firmly and hold for about 10 seconds and you are done.

The times I have had to cut pipe in-place, getting the cut straight can be tricky. A reciprocating (sawzall) saw lets you go slow and concentrate on getting a straight cut rather than the work of sawing the pipe. You can tie a string around the pipe and mark with a flo-pen to help with guiding the saw and making a straight cut.
Al

If you have a small power miter box (ie, one you can carry) you can get clean cuts with that. But, not, of course, for in-place plumbing.

One thing I would add, use at least the Medium strength PVC glue (normally comes in a BLACK can), not the all purpose (in a Red can). The black definitely holds better, but it does weld faster. Also, use the clear cleaner/primer, not the purple stuff (that can make for some really "pretty" installations).

For cutting very tight connections, you can buy a wire PVC saw, only about 5 bucks. It is very difficult to do real straight cuts with, but it can get in places that a normal saw won't. You can also buy fine toothed and/or masonary blades if you have a power mitre saw, these work very well. Clean the edges real well, sand paper works fine.

Clean, clean and clean again before using the glue!

I normally test all my connections (for length and fit, not for pressure) by coating the ends with the same silicone goop you use for fittings. This lets you try everything out before the final weld. BUT, you have to really clean the connections with the PVC cleaner before gluing.

On solar, if your panels don't include a bypass valve, you should plan on adding one. It makes fine tuning the flow through the panels much easier and also will allow you to do maintenance on the panels while the pool is running.

And I ALWAYS use the purple primer...Because I want to be CERTAIN I have primed everything. Plus, if you need to have your plumbing inspected, you need the purple so the inspector sees it is fully primed.

Plus I use the blue flexible glue because it's supposed to be better for TigerFlex. I don't mind the colors. Besides, you can always paint the pipes.

Each to his/her own.

What? Inspectors looking at the solvents? I guess I do have a definite advantage by living in Podunkville, PA. Inspectors need to GET A LIFE.
Al

Yes inspectors look for the purple - you could probably get away with using no cement, just purple primer - as far as the inspectors are concerned :)

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Originally Posted by cleancloths

Yes inspectors look for the purple - you could probably get away with using no cement, just purple primer - as far as the inspectors are concerned :)

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Never thought of that! But I'll bet you're right!:p

Up where Al lives, they send a black bear and a wild turkey in lieu of a building inspector! But where I live they send a pit bull! (at least the electrical inspector acts like one--bless him!):D

Purple isn't required here for pool piping, good thing as it is ugly (IMHO). In our area of NY, there was no piping inspection, just structural and electrical.

When you use the purple though, that is 3 steps, right? (Clean, prime, glue). My PB just cleaned and glued and that is what I have done since. No problems so far, even with flex.

It would be an interesting post mortem....how somebody died from using the wrong solvent on pool piping. We don't even need a fence around pools up here let alone all those safety gadgets to prevent entry etc. I have one for decoration and to keep the deer, black bears and wild turkeys from falling in.
Al

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarlD

Never thought of that! But I'll bet you're right!:p

Up where Al lives, they send a black bear and a wild turkey in lieu of a building inspector! But where I live they send a pit bull! (at least the electrical inspector acts like one--bless him!):D

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YUP, the electrical inspectors are ass#$%*&holes where I live too. When my pool was built we had a couple of electrical boxes and timers on the mounting board. The electrician decided to drop the conduit from one box below grade and then come up to the next box to make the runs look nice and vertical rather than looping them in mid-air below the boxes. The inspector failed him saying anything that is under ground must be 18" deep. The idiot inspector did not grasp that it was more sound to go slightly in the ground with the loop than having it just dangle below the mounting board.

Actually, I LIKE such inspectors. The contractors HATE him--I realized that's A GOOD THING! When we did our kitchen he found all kinds of cheats the contractor's required electrician did. And he didn't even find them all--I found one a year later.

For example, the elec used mechanical grounds (the metal conduit), and the inspector made him use proper electrical grounds.

I figure if an inspector insn't crooked and the contractors hate him, he's on MY side--and the funny thing was, with that attitude he was far more willing to work with me.

Reminds me: If a real estate agent recommends a home inspector, avoid him like the plague. If they spit and curse and tell you a guy's a bum and a *****, then HIRE HIM!

Thanks guys -

I have to laugh, though, at the comments about inspectors.

I live in an unincorporated part of Harris County, TX and around here, the chance of an inspector arriving to look at ANYTHING for ANY REASON is close to zero. I could tell you horror stories about the construction of my house...

I've studied the plumbing layout, and think I know where I am going with it. I checked out the apporpriate fittings at Lowes, but I'd like to find a local source for the flexible pipe (to run a short distance above ground - MUCH easier to go around a curved area, I suspect!)

Anybody know anyone in the Houston area that carries the flex stuff?

Linda
near NW Houston

Any pool store should carry it--it's called TigerFlex but there are probably other brands. You are more likely to find it there than in Lowes--plus there are 45 deg and 90 deg fittings.

Flex can also be bought fairly cheap on line. Check out flexpvc.com. I was able to find a lot of fittings out of season on that site and some odd ones as well (long connectors for example).

OK gang - I found a local source for flexible PVC, at $3 a foot. That is a LOT more than the online sources I have found, but none of them will automatically give me the shipping costs so I can't determine the final cost. The stuf isn't so much heavy (at least in the small quantities I am looking at - I don't need 100'!) as it is bulky. Will the price double once shipping is added in? If so, I'll stick with local. Otherwise, I think I will buy online.

As for the actual plumbing - it has been recommended that I add in some bypass valves, etc. So I am thinking that while it would be the easiest way, it ISN'T a good idea to just run a line from the filter to the panel, and from the panel to the inlet. Instead, I want a valve on the line that runs from the filter to the panel, and a valve on a line that runs from the panel back to the pool. And that means I also need to have a line that will run from the filter direct to the pool, so that if I use the bypass valves I can still get water running. Is that right?

I can't draw a picture (is there a trick to getting the typed characters to line up correctly?), but it would involve two "T" joints on the line that runs from the filter to the inlet, and off of each "T" would be a line, with a valve, that runs to the panel. To bypass the panel, I would close the two valves.

Does that sound reasonable?

Thanks!
Linda (feeling better about this process)

Why not just hard pipe it? It will be cheaper and more durable.

Most of it *will* be hard-piped, but I have to go around a couple of corners, and instead of using multiple elbows, etc, I was going to use the flex.

Linda

As I always do, I suggest going to powermat.com, the site is a bit complicated to navigate, but it has excellent tutorials on almost everything solar.

But, the "normal way" to hard plumb solar is to use a 3 way valve to direct the return to the solar or to bypass. You would also have ball valves on both the solar source and return so you can completely bypass solar if you need to. On most permanent installations, the 3 way valve is either a "leaky" valve or it has a hole drilled into it to allow the solar to "drain back" when it is not in use (it is really not a good idea to leave your solar system full of water when it is not circulating. Not only do you have a significant amount of weight on the roof, but the water can superheat and really stress the panels and plumbing). Finally, in many installations, the solar source and return are "T"ed together with a ball valve in order to be able to fine tune the amount of water/pressure that goes to the solar.

I'd be interested in seeing some before and after install pics .. interested myself ... but have a small backyard .. space is somewhat tight ... but am considering the powermat product line .. but building 4' (tall) x 20 ' (wide) vertical on custom installed posts (similar to fencing posts) from the ground level .. just to catch the southerly sunshine (in my backyard) with custom hardpiped into return ... (still in planning stage). .. currently have purchased upgraded 18'x48" AG round Dolfino Simpe set .. will swap with current 12' x 30" round AG.

Cheers, :)