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Our church needs to change the sand in four TR(TS?)140 filters with an estimated 600-700 lbs each. At 50lb per bag, that's about 50 bags of "pool filter sand". Is there anything special about filter sand and can it be bought in bulk quantities? Thanks, Hal
I don't mean to question your judgement, but I'm curious as to why filter sand would ever need replacing.
And the debate begins----again!:D:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarium
Uh oh, did I step off into someplace I shouldn't go? :eek:
Not at all. Generally, many people here will tell you (me included) that filter sand only needs to be changed if it gets gummed up or has a HORRID algae infestation, or something else that prevents it functioning, or you had pull it out anyway because of a broken lateral.
It doesn't really HURT to change sand, but, again, most sand users find it filters better as it gets older, so why change it? Some folks here have the same sand for a dozen years--I'm going on Year 5 myself.
You MUST use filter sand in your filter. Period. You should be able to find it for $5-$6/50lb bag....that's about $70/filter.
But is there a compelling reason to change the sand or are you just changing it to change it?
I'm with Carl here. We have many customers that have never changed their sand over the course of 15 years. We never recommend changing the sand unless there is something specifically wrong.
Brad
Waterworks Pools
Hey all,
With uncharacteristic pseudo-thoroughness, I searched for a few things before I replied :D I found a few posts re: changing sand (how to) http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=2537 , http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1068 and one where I recommend using 'pea gravel' (small, 1/8 - 1/4" 'riverstone') to replace 100 lbs of sand on the 140 filters http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=298
Sand used for filtering pool water is of a certain size and quality (sorry I don't remember the specs :o ), but IF you can find it in 'bulk' it might save some $ (but then again, adding the 'right' # of lbs could be a real pain and getting it into the filter might present some additional problems - bags are easy!, also - purity may be an issue with 'bulk sand'))
Tom, (to save Evan some typing) - at least some of what Evan's talking about can be found in the following threads : http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=168, http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=3394 (esp., post 11), and http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=3707 (#10). I thought that I rememberd more, about using a sand cleaner each year, but couldn't find it - (I'll let him type that ;) )!
The info in the links should help with the changeout, if a changeout is actually necessary (BTW,Sumo, did you resolve the chlorination question?)
IMO, a sand filter should use 1/4 of its capacity in gravel around the laterals.
On TR140 C-3's, the filter I use on commercial pools with multiple filters on a bypass manifold, I use 300lbs of gravel and 600lbs of sand in each filter.
On a single 140 for a residential pool I'll use 200lbs to 700 of sand. This is probably more gravel and less total media than the MFG suggests but I've found it to work very well in service.
hal,
buy your sand from a pool supply house and get sand specifically designed for sand filters. Also don't use just 600lbs of sand. I think the Mfg suggests 950 to 1000lbs in each TR140. That's 20 bags per filter.
See Ya,
Kelly
I believe that pool filter sand is .35mm - .45mm in size. It is tripled screen to remove the smaller sand particles and the larger particles. If you get sand smaller than .35mm it will pass through the laterals and if you get any larger than .45mm it will not filter out the smallest particles, meaning anything larger than 40-60 microns.
Brad
Waterworks Pools
Answer: a"pool guy" friend told me we needed to change the sand every 5 years. Pool operators at the church change every couple of years and there's no written record but we think the sand's been in service between 15-30 years.
I'm having to give multiple replies because I type slowly and I keep getting timed out. Does anyone know how I can get more time to type my messages? Haven't found any place in the control panel to adjust it.
Anyway, when I was in the pool last August, the water looked clear and the floor wasn't slimy so perhaps the sand can go another year? Funds are always tight so we sure could use the sand money for other issues we're working on. See next reply........
The health dept. has just told us that Georgia code calls for us to add another drain to the pool. At 47'X77' and 194,000gal (I previously thought it was 175K), the idea gives me the willies, if it's even possible to do. A church member tells me that the pool was built on top of a spring. Yee Haa! Could a drain work if we put it at the base of the deep end wall? That way we could plumb it around the end of the pool. How silly of me-I thought I was just signing on to operate and test the pool!!!! Til my next question....Hal
Sumo....to keep from getting logged out just hit the 'preview post' button every once in a while. The inactivity timer is probably in the ADMIN options and we don't have access to it.
Al
BTW: My sand is 9 years old now, been doing the DE trick for a couple years, and seems just fine.
To add more to what Poconos said above. You can also go back into a post that you have already posted by clicking the edit button in the lower right corner.
Hal, this has sat for a while, but I noticed something yesterday that may solve your 'timing out' problem. As I've told you, I'm a slow typist and often get called away whilst posting (I also can't spell worth crip :D ), but have never been 'timed out' - yesterday after I had composed a ~lengthy post, I hit the submit icon and got a white screen with some verbage about not being able to post... 'yadda, yadda, yadda'... I've seen that message quite a few times so pay it no mind and click the green 'back arrow' at the top left of the screen and hit 'submit reply' again - it's always worked - yesterday as I did this I thought I saw the words 'timed out'. (it took a while for that bit to percolate through the brain and realize that it might be the same message you've been getting :o )
I had just figured it was a forum 'hicough', where the browser was distracted while trying to perform a task and trying it again has always seemed to work. Next time I get that message, should be fairly soon;) - I'll read it and let you know.
(As I'm trying to get 'timed out' here, a quick aside to AL - I had sent you a link to something I composed re: closings and it disappeared - what may have happened is that I got the 'timed out' message and then 'spaced' resubmitting it, as the post I sent was never seen again:rolleyes: - and it was the best post ever! I succinctly explained everything! needed for any IG closing in under 300 words, including every conceivable problem and solution - too bad it got lost in the eithernet :D )
[edit]sorry, it's hard to get 'timed out' on purpose, I didn't wait long enough. ALSO, Hal, isn't the pool 'grandfathered' as it's so old as to not have to meet the '2 suction' requirement?[/edit]
Hey, Ted. I'm always happy for any responses. As far as typing goes, I've just been using the "preview post" trick and haven't been timed out since. Back to the pool: This project seems to grow and grow. I want to post some pics of the situation but will have to get the smarter half of this marriage to show me how to do it. If money were no object, we'd have someone do a complete pool overhaul. That, however, is not the case so I and a few others are going to do a complete pool overhaul. We were able to talk to a pool guy who's been selling chlorine to the church for years, and he explained a lot of the workings to us. He showed us where the returns enter the pool and which pumps supply which returns.Each pump supplies 3 returns except where one of the return lines is broken under the gunite. He said that you could hear the water running under the gunite. He then cut that line and ran a 2in line over the wall, down to the bottom, and ended it there with a T and two eyeballs to direct it. There is a main drain (at one point, we weren't sure, as it's at the bottom of a diving well which fills up with ground water through the hydrostatic valve when the pool is empty). Apparently the 2nd drain issue had come up before because he plumbed in an additional "drain" by running a 2in line going to the deep end pump(#4), but he ran that over and down the wall to a cap at the floor. He perforated the PVC with 3/4" to 1" holes from the floor up to just below the waterline. Creative, no doubt. Again, I'll post pics when I can. If you wonder why he chose the over the wall route, remember that this pool was built inside an existing pool of poured concrete walls 8" thick. A 6" cap (concrete or mortar or cement) was added over the top to tie the two pools together. The cap was covered with 6" terra cotta tiles. Well, the cap has suffered and we'll begin demoing the top 4" or so on Saturday until we determine just how far down we can find solid material. The pool's got 6 skimmers but some of them are in rough shape so we've already bought new ones to replace them. The skimmers were installed too close to the top of the cap, leaving only about 3"-4" of freeboard to keep the water in, so we plan to mount them a few inches lower on the wall. These are just the things we're doing to it before we try to open it by mid May. Lord willin', in the fall we'll address further issues like re-plumbing all the suction lines to a manifold system, which it doesn't have. Currently each pump has 2 intakes(4 pumps feeding from 6 skimmers, 2 drains). Most of the cost will be for materials as the labor is donated. We also hope to re-plaster it ourselves in the future unless Providence provides a large financial boost. Regardless, we're determined not to let this historic part of the church fade away. The health dept. told us it's the largest pool in the county(in gallons). Sorry, didn't mean to run on so long. May have told y'all a lot more than you wanted to know but as time keeps on and so do the questions, you'll have an idea why. Jump back to the chlorination question: It finally dawned on me (thanks to a friend's suggestion) that I could source drums of liquid chlorine from a janitorial supply co. Now I've read and been told that we shouldn't keep chlorine (liquid or granular) in the enclosed pump house because the gasses will corrode the equipment. Makes perfect sense to me. If we go with large drums of liquid CL, can they be safely left outside or should they be weather protected? Waste, you( I think) made an earlier reference to having such experience, how did you dispense the stuff? Do you have any tips or warnings you could impart? This will have to do for tonight as all this typing is wearing me out. I sure wasn't cut out to work at a desk:D If anyone has thoughts, quesions or comments, bring 'em on because this project's grown so large that I need help to stretch my mind to handle it. Thanks all
Hal