Baby Fence

Hi I am a new member. I am not sure if I posted this in the right spot so please feel free to move it if I did.

My wife and I have a 14 month old baby. We are very concerned about her saftey of course so we are looking into getting a baby pool fence. I have been pricing them and they are quite expensive. My wife wants me to look into a regular type fence instead of a baby fence. My thought is that in a year or two our daughter will be able to climb any other type of fence. the baby fences are designed to specifically keep kids out. Does anyone here have any info for me? Are regualar fences an alternative to baby fences? Any info you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Pool fences are designed to be difficult to climb. They don't have horizontal bars between the top and bottom, and the ground gap and spacing between pickets is too small for a child to slip through. Look into a NSPI or BOCA pool fence.

Thanks John. Are NSPI and BOCA a brand name of the fences or is it a certification?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harpua

Thanks John. Are NSPI and BOCA a brand name of the fences or is it a certification?

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They are a code for pool fence safety. BOCA is building code and NSPI is pools. Try searching with google for BOCA pool fence and you will have plenty of reading.

Thanks John!

even though it's really a year premature, we'll very likely put up a fence to protect the baby this year. our approach will be NOT to worry about absolute safety but to have enough to "slow the kid down". we figure by the time she's old enough to climb over she'll be a fish in the water anyways :o

we're going to put a 3ft fence around the pool area. i think correctly, this should be plenty to have some security. if she's outside, we will be as well. she won't be able to get through and we'll ensure she learns that she is not allowed in without us being there -- this message will be drilled into her head :o

our solution will be purchased online from this guy:

http://www.aluminumfencespecialists.com/gallery.htm

real friendly guy, knows his stuff. if you decide to talk with him, tell him "bernie from windsor" gave the referral :o

his product is of slightly (very minor differences) lower quality than what we could get in town but his pricing is good.

hope this helped ...

Is your pool installed already? Many towns will dictate what specifications the fence should have and are quite specific.

Safety fence is not only for your daughter, but also for your friends and hers that visit. Unfortunately not all parents monitor their children the same. Know people that have some sad experience in this area. So we probably go a little overboard with rules and safety. Just my .02 cents
Enjoy them while there young they grow up so fast.

Dave

lol
yes of course the pool has been installed and inspected and cleared :o
the primary fence encircles the entire back yard
this is a secondary fence to separate the pool from the rest of the patio

good points about other kids
but we will make ourselves responsible for watching all children in our yard
nothing will happen on our watch :o

obviously, no matter what you do, nothing is guaranteed but there's no way i will trust someone else to watch their kids while they're in my yard.

you can set up fort knox around the pool -- all it takes is an accident while they're IN the pool. nothing wrong with over-compensating but if a kid REALLY wants to get in, they'll get in ... putting up barbed wire? :o

we believe adult eyes, strictly enforced safety rules and a 3ft fence will do the trick ...

two more cents to throw in the pot :o

sleater. do you have an idea (if you don't mind me asking) aprox how much a fence like that around your pool will cost?

I was a lifeguard for about 15 years when I was younger. Like sleater I will not trust anyone, but myself to watch the kids while they are at my pool. I know all too well what can happen with kids around water. I have seen too many parents turn around for just a second while their little one slips silently under. Anytime there are kids in my backyard I will be on lifeguard duty which means I will be right there on the deck with my eyes on the kids at all times. I am not taking any chances!

We have a primary fence (as it dicatated by state law) around our yard, but this would be a secondary fence for added protection.

be sure to get swim lesson for the little ones as soon as possible. no matter what you do , accidents can and will happpen. being able to swim is the last / best defense.

I designed and built my own fence, according to the BOCA and my town codes. It was approved in advance as a design, and approved when completed. I also designed the gate and used MagnaLatch for the latch and hinges.

Chain link will only meet code under certain conditions that make it tough to climb--small, flat cells. Here's the gate and fence I built that met code. The fence pickets are 3.5" apart (code is 4"). The fence is 4' high with no gap at the bottom, and nothing to climb on the outside of the pool. The gate is 1.75" gaps (code was unclear here so I met the most conservative. The space under the gate is about an inch. The pickets are flush to the top and bottom rails so it cannot be climbed. The latch is opened from the VERY top, and is 5' high.

Here it is, if this helps.

http://home.earthlink.net/~dashmanc/pool/gate1.jpg

harpua
depending on what you are doing (eg: #of gates)
and of course what you're buying
anywhere from $17 - $22 / foot delivered to your door

our quote came in at $21 / foot

I have had good recomendations for the
Katch-a-kid safety net. It was going to be about the same cost for us as one of the black mesh net type fences.

we have one scheduled to be installed in about 3 weeks I'll have to let you know. It looks a lot better than a fence to me since it is more like a total barrier.

They also sell the mesh type fences that are suppose to be hard to climb.

http://www.advanced-pool-covers.com/
or
http://houston.babyzone.com/linkinfo...03761&prid=676

sgt post prompted me to add a post related to safety winter covers
we got something similar to the link below
safe for the dogs and for baby
these things are expensive but excellent

http://www.inyopools.com/category_covers_safety.aspx

You absolutely do not want to cheat or cut corners on your fence or gate.

Pools are dangerous and, as Ben says, full of the deadliest pool chemical of all....water.

I am very leery of those netting fences--they can be cut easily and scissors are everywhere. Just my opinion.

We got our first pool when our kids were 1, 3, and 6. We're on our second pool now and the kids are 3, 4, and 7. On both pools we had a 4' wrought iron fence installed around it, with a key lock. I don't think 3' is sufficient. We had them powder coated a dark brown color, as we find it not as harsh as the black. You can get them coated any color you want. The powder coating is much more durable than the paint, and doesn't chip/peel. The whole fence, around pool and spa, ran us about $5k. That included custom fitting it around the curves and hand-welding each individual picket. They bolt the fence sections directly into the concrete, and it would be simple to unbolt them and fill in the holes if you (or future owners) decide somewhere along the line that it's not needed anymore.

At some point your daughter and/or friends, siblings will want to play in the backyard and you will not want to supervise them every minute. You never know what kids (especially other people's kids!) will do, so pay the extra money now and get yourself a fence that they cannot sabotage!

IMO the pool needs to be secured as soon as your child is mobile. Definitely get something around that pool now, even the most diligent parents can get distracted (pulling a few weeds, winding up the hose, etc.) and it's just not worth the risk. "Just a second" can turn into a couple minutes before you know it, and that's all it takes. And swim lessons are important and good, but ask any lifeguard/EMT and they will tell you that even excellent swimmers, especially children, can panic in water over their heads, not to mention leg cramps, etc. My husband's cousin is a firefighter and he said children have drowned in water *where they could stand*. They just panicked and didn't have the presence of mind to stand up.

A 3' fence is not code. 4' is code. AG pools don't have the same rules--if your steps/ladder is code (self-closing) then the fence ON TOP OF THE AG POOL can be 3'.

It's all about access. My pool is AG, but because you access it off the deck, I did it to IG code on the fencing and gate.

A 3' fence is not code. 4' is code.

again, we have a 4' fence around the yard
the baby fence is for inside the yard, to separate the pool from the rest of the yard

re: 3' not being sufficient --> please explain why 3 feet is insufficient.
my thinking is if they can climb a 3 ft fence they can climb a 4ft fence no?
also, by the time they can climb a fence they should be swimming like "fish" anyways?
also, we'd create a strict set of rules regarding the pool area and no fence climbing would be part of those rules.

ultimately, isn't conscious supervision is the most important thing?

sgt
just watched the catch a kid video
it looks cumbersome and i wouldn't trust it alone as displayed in the video
i'd bet it'd lose tension within a summer or two

guess ultimately, i don't like the solution to be something a kid can crawl on above the water -- inevitably it'll become a toy ...

i think that thing would scare me.

jmho

sb23
just went outside and thought about it some more
we will give serious consideration to a 4ft fence

thanks for the input

ps: serious consideration means thats probably the way we'll go :o

Sleater,

So glad you will probably go with the 4' fence. I read your earlier post asking why a 3' fence isn't sufficient and to tell you the truth it scared me half to death. And I am by no means an overprotective mother, most would say I'm somewhat to the contrary. But IMHO there is no comparison between, say, letting a 2 year old climb all over a playscape, risking a skinned knee or at worst a broken bone, and what could happen if your child somehow wandered into the back yard while you were showering, vacuuming, etc. and got into the pool area.

I was reading in our local paper just a couple weeks ago about a 4 year old who was terribly mauled by a pit bull in his back yard. A dog he had grown up with since birth, and who had never shown any hostility whatsoever towards the boy. Nonetheless, his mother made a point never to leave the boy alone with the dog. Unfortunately, just the day before, the latch on the back door had broken and they hadn't yet had someone out to repair it. The boy wandered out while his mom was in a back room. It will take over 20 surgeries to try to repair the damage done.

I truly believe that the only reason any child lives to see its 3rd birthday is by the grace of God. No matter how dilligent the parents, there is always room for human error. Never has the old saying been more true, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Keeping a close eye on your child, having clear rules strongly enforced, and teaching your child to swim are all definitely important parts of pool safety. But noe of them is nearly infallible as a strong, impenetrable barrier to keep them from reaching the pool in the first place.

At 14 months your little one is just beginning to become really mobile. Ask any parent of a child older than 3, not to mention those who have more than one child (don't know if that's in your future plans, but having friends over surely is), and they will tell you that a 3' fence would probably be sufficient to keep them from trampling flowers, but not to keep them from something really enticing. And your daughter will reach the stage, as my 3 and 4 year olds are right now, where she has learned the rudimentary basics of swimming and thinks she is a lot better at it than she really is. That, IMHO, is the most dangerous phase--overconfidence in one's own abilities, not yet developed a healthy respect for the dangers that water poses, and very little ability to exercise good judgement.

Anyway, I'm glad to read that you are leaning heavily towards the 4' fence. Like I said, we are well-pleased with the wrought iron. We went for the simplest style, endcaps, etc. to keep it as unobtrusive as possible. I wish you good luck in your search for the perfect fence!

Susan

Sgtb1: How often do you use your pool? We are usually in and out of ours at least a couple times a day. Just wondering how easy it would be to put the cover back on every time?

first in response to Sleater's comment: "just watched the catch a kid video
it looks cumbersome and i wouldn't trust it alone as displayed in the video
i'd bet it'd lose tension within a summer or two

guess ultimately, i don't like the solution to be something a kid can crawl on above the water -- inevitably it'll become a toy ..."

here is what they say about that:
"4. What happens if my child falls or crawls onto the Katchakid?
The Katchakid serves as a barrier between the child and the water. As long as the net is in good condition, properly positioned and tensioned, the net will support the weight of a young child near the pool's edge. Katchakid's unique mesh size has a dual action: small enough to prevent a toddler's head from penetrating the net while simultaneously large enough to discourage movement. Most children will find the Katchakid uncomfortable and abrasive to move on, which will deter any further crawling on the net."

--http://www.advanced-pool-covers.com/faq.html#2

My parents had one of the green "winter" covers it was really hard to get on and off. It was usually the "chore of the spring" (and fall) to take it off and put it on. This one however is suppose to be able to go on in about 8 minutes and off in 5 - at least that's what they say.

They have some interesting points about using covers rather than fences on their site also:

http://www.advanced-pool-covers.com/net.html

and they claim it has been uv treated to last up to 8 years or so.
"14. How long can I expect my Katchakid to last?
We would estimate that a Katchakid that has been treated with a reasonable amount of care would last an average of eight years" - also from the faq section

In answer to your question about how often we use the pool, - I've only been in it twice, but we bought the house in Oct of last year and the water was to cold to swim, since that time I've just been watching it turn green while we are having to drain it and get the copeing and tile replaced. They're working on it this week.

I expect that we'll be using it a lot in the summer after it's fixed and filled back up. This net system was explained to me as a minor inconvience like a car seat... it takes a little time to get right at first but is just something that you have to be willing to use considering the potential outcome otherwise. One lady told me that she was able to remove and instal the net by herself while pregnant.

We have it scheduled to be installed sometime in the next few weeks, it takes them about 4 hrs to drill the holes for the anchor points.

I believe that it has a 5 year warranty, as long as my dog's don't chew on it!
(small sections of it can apparently be repaired but it isn't warrantied)

Like I said we'll have to just let you know later, in a month or so how good it works first hand.

I think that for our pool which is roughly 18'X36' (about 95' perimeter) with a few curve and all it was about $2K the mesh fences that we looked at were about the same amount after instalation and all. They do free estimates you just have to fax them a paper from the web site with the measurements on it. They may not be in all states, though you'd just have to call and ask. But we have also been putting extra locks on the doors going to the back yard and all so that our <1yr old can grow up safe.

The comment about not making it over 3 yrs but by the grace of God is probably true also... Parenting is hard work! but then most of you on this thread probably know that already. We seem like we're always looking back seeing "near miss" opportunities for injury.

I don't know if it's for everyone, but we'll see soon how it is for us. There's always a chance that it's a "lemmon." (as it's used for cars that never work right)

Regards.

I'll install myself to save some $$$ (looks straightforward enough).

http://www.cantar.com/product.asp?ProdID=8
http://www.safetyguardfence.com/

Available here:

http://diypoolfence.webdirectbrands.com/

http://cgi.ebay.com/SAFETYGUARD-Safe...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/SWIMMING-POOL-FE...QQcmdZViewItem

I actually already have a fence around my backyard. This fence will go around the pool only for additional protection. Pending configuration, It'll be $1000-1500 for my 18x36 IG.

If anyone has a better suggestion/prices... let me know!

leejay
we looked at that one as well
was concerned about whether it might be flimsy ... didn't look into it enough to say for sure ...
in our case, we didn't want the fence right beside the pool and since, on one side, we have only a 3ft sidewalk, i'd have had to put a portion of the fence on the lawn -- i figured trying to level that and keep the fence standing straight a year or two down the road would be a bear.
plus ... can that thing stay up in the winter without getting compromised?

my two cents ...

Knowledgeable people differ passionately about what 'appropriate' or 'reasonable' levels of care and risk should be for small children. This always makes it a difficult topic to discuss . . . it's hard not to feel that someone who disagrees with you is acting in a way that's immoral.

But, the reality is that parents have to have the right to use their own best judgement about their own children. And this right inevitably means that they have to have the right to make mistakes -- including some serious ones -- with their own kids. People sometimes find themselves wanting to disagree with this idea; the tendency is to say, "Well, somebody ought to do something!"

The problem is that the only "somebody" left is the government. Forgive me for being political for a moment, but I believe that the both the old Soviet Union and Hitler's Nazi regime tried that approach, with results that were nothing short of horrifying. And, everyone I know who's seen the 'foster care' system up close and personal has concluded that even some pretty awful homes are better, on the average, than foster care! (And that's not a criticism of foster care: I'm not sure that there's an alternative in some cases of abuse or neglect. I'm just saying that the 'solution', while sometimes necessary, is itself often pretty horrible by its very nature.)

So, unless you want to advocate that governments should assume the responsibilty for child care, a la Brave New World or worse, 1984, you have to let parents make their own imperfect judgements. Personally, though I grew up around large aggressive dogs, I'd never have a pit bull. But, I believe that responsible parents have made judgements on that topic that they have the right, and responsibility, to make even though I disagree.

Just how safe pools should be made is a similar topic.

In the past, I've often told here how important I think it is to watch children constantly when they are in the water. I know that many parents don't have the knowledge that I do about how fast small children can drown. But, I still tend to feel that such parents -- and they are many; I see them by the dozens every summer -- are acting irresponsibly. But I don't think they should be arrested: I believe they have the right, and responsibility, to make decisions for their children. And I know, that in the real world, that includes decisions that I disagree with, and which I think are seriously mistaken.

I think this thread was drifting past providing information, toward arguing what which way was best. For the reasons I mentioned above, I don't think that's a really fruitful direction.

So, in my very own dictatorial way, I'm leaving the information, locking the thread, and letting the parents involved make their own decisions -- right or wrong, as the case may be.

Sincerely,

Ben
PoolDoc

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

I believe they have the right, and responsibility, to make decisions for their children. And I know, that in the real world, that includes decisions that I disagree with, and which I think are seriously mistaken.

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Personal responsibility. What a radical concept.:)