Help! Used Muratic acid instead of bleach!

It rained inches last night so my wife told my son to go put 4 cups of bleach in the pool. He came back in and said the bleach fumed when he opened it . . . got my attention! I said what did you use? We go out and he used the muratic acid instead of bleach! Arghhhhh!

OK, it's a 14 foot above ground intex with 2,800 gallons or so in it. Ph test shows 7.0 but that's it's lower range, I'm sure it's way lower than that!

Should I just drain it and start over or use some borax to raise the PH? If so any way to make an educated guess on how much to use?

Thanks!

Steve

If you have a TA of around 100, then my calculations show that 4 cups of Muriatic Acid would lower the pH from 7.5 to 6.34 -- ouch!:eek: It would also lower your TA down to 57.7, but that's just temporary and will bounce back with pH. You need to add about 4-1/2 cups (63 ounces -- about 4 pounds) of Borax to get back to your 7.5 pH.

You don't have to drain and refill. After this experience, you will have increased your TDS by about 65 ppm mostly with salt and including about 10 ppm of Borates (Boric Acid).

By the way, my calculations assumed no borates in your pool, but if you've been on BBB for a while, then that could buffer some of the pH change. You'd still need to add the same amount of Borax to counteract the acid, but your pH may not have moved as much as I indicated.

Good luck. I'd hate to be your son right now.:(

P.S. Be sure to report back with your numbers and let us know if this worked. I'd like to verify my calculations whenever possible.

Richard

Hi Richard,

THANKS for the reply! I was pretty nervous about the pool! I surfed this forum but I couldn't find a calculation or even rule of thumb on the borax usage and I just couldn't sit on my hands . . .

*) I removed the filter from my pump so it would move the water unimpeded, figured it would help mix the water better.

*) Though the Intexs have side in and outs I do have a skimmer adapter and little floating basket so I dumped in 4lbs (one box) of Borax.

*) I'm letting the pump run for a couple hours and will recheck my Ph.

Now, on to your comments . . .

*) My TA is high from the moment I fill the pool - runs around 150 to 180 all the time. Last year it got a little cloudy, but this year no problems.

*) If you calculate the volume of a round pool it always calcs higher than what Intex says - they say it's around 2,824 gallons, so the Ph may be even lower!

*) The Ph was around 7.6 last I chekced before he bombed it.

*) I did add about 38 lbs of solar salt a while back just to see if I could tell the difference (we really can't).

*) I've never added anything to the pool this year except bleach, CYA (currently at 40ppm), and the salt. No borax or anything else has been added.

> Good luck. I'd hate to be your son right now.

Yeah, I did kinda jump on him . . . it doesn't look like or smell like bleach, it FUMES when you pour it, and ITS IN A BOTTLE LABLED MURATIC ACID! At 15-1/2 we thought he could handle it, but it looks like Dad will exclusively handle the pool chems from now on!

I'll let ya know how it goes - thanks again!

Steve

OK, just ran some tests . . .

*) I'm using a Taylor drop wise test kit.
*) Ph has risen dramatically - it's now a solid 8 and that's the top of the scale.
*) I hadn't ran a TA test in a long time, it's always ran high but hasn't really caused any problems so I've ignored it. Tonight the TA tested to 260!

I'm going to let the pump run over night without a filter just to make sure I got a good mix on the pool and I'll test it again tomorrow afternoon.

If things stay the same then I think I would need to:

*) Add some muratic acid to lower the Ph, this time in a more controlled manner!
*) Haul my Dad's air compressor over and bubble air into the pool which will lower the TA and raise the Ph.
*) Use muratic acid again to lower the Ph if it climbs too high.
*) Keep doing this dance till I get a more reasonable TA and Ph reading.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks!

Steve

I wouldn't get carried away trying to lower your alkalinity just yet. If it hasn't caused you problems in the past there's really nothing to suggest that it will cause you problems now.

Did you have a problem maintaining your pH in the recommended range (7.2 - 7.8) before the incident with the acid? Did you have problems with scaling? If the answer to both those questions is no, I'd get the pH back into range with, as you mentioned, small doses of acid and not worry much about the alkalinity. Even if you did answer yes to either or both of those questions, I'd work on the pH alone until it was reasonably stable for a couple of days before mucking with the alkalinity.

Although Kurt is correct in saying that since your alk hasn't caused you problems before, it probably isn't a crisis situation to lower it, since you need to lower your ph anyways, you might as well work on the alk, too. The "ratcheting" procedure you stated is correct. Use acid to lower ph and alk, then aerate the ph back up.

Yes to the part about adding the acid in a more controlled manner this time! ;)

Hi,

In the past the water did get a little cloudy but would clear up after bubbling air into it for a bit. This year no problems with that so far. No, no scaling I've seen either.

I think you're right - I'll work on the Ph and see what happens and just deal with what comes up.

Thanks!

Steve

And generally add half the recommended amounts and see where you are at, even if the recommendation is from me.;)

I'm not sure why you swung so high in pH. Maybe your son didn't actually put in as much as he said or my calculations could be wrong (in which case, I'd like to find out and fix it). It's been right with others using Borax so I'm not sure what happened and I'm really sorry for any trouble this caused.

Richard

4 cups of bleach?! Why 4 cups because of rain? Was your FC at zero?

at 2800 gallons of water and an average FC of around 4, 4 cups of bleach would run it to what.... like 24 or 25ppm? that's shock level for CYA at over 100. Is your CYA that high?

4 cups of 6% bleach in 2800 gallons of water should increase the chlorine by a little over 5 ppm.

yeah, you're right. I don't know what I had my bleachcalc set to but the time I ran it it showed 24ppm LOL sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chem geek

And generally add half the recommended amounts and see where you are at, even if the recommendation is from me.;)

I'm not sure why you swung so high in pH. Maybe your son didn't actually put in as much as he said or my calculations could be wrong (in which case, I'd like to find out and fix it). It's been right with others using Borax so I'm not sure what happened and I'm really sorry for any trouble this caused.

Richard

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A full box of borax is 4 lbs 12 oz.....almost 5 lbs. That could explain the pH rise. 3/4 to 1 cup of acid should get you back into the ballpark by my calculations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waterbear

A full box of borax is 4 lbs 12 oz.....almost 5 lbs. That could explain the pH rise. 3/4 to 1 cup of acid should get you back into the ballpark by my calculations.

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Evan,

From our previous discussions and your own experience, 1 box of Borax (4 pounds, 12 ounces) requires 4 cups, 7 ounces of Muriatic Acid to balance the pH. If his son did put in 4 cups of Muriatic Acid, then I would expect about 4 pounds of Borax would be required to neutralize it. About a pound of Borax is equivalent to a cup of Muriatic Acid.

Of course, he saw a much larger rise so something is amiss. Either his son did not in fact put in 4 full cups of acid, or more than 4 pounds of Borax was used, or our calculations our wrong.

Richard

Richard, he said he dumped in one box....it only comes in one size....4 lbs 12 oz. so I stand by what I said in my prevoius post.

Evan,

Whoops! I missed that part about dumping the whole box. If he dumped an entire box in, then the combination of 4 cups of acid and a box of Borax in a 2800 gallon pool (with 100 TA, 30 CYA) would have a net rise in pH from 7.5 to about 7.9 (close to his measured 8.0) and adding about 6 ounces of acid would bring this back down to 7.5 and 6 ounces is in the 3/4 to 1 cup range you suggested.

So I'm sorry I didn't read his post thoroughly and thank you for correcting me!

Richard

Hi Richard,

> And generally add half the recommended amounts
> and see where you are at, even if the recommendation is from me.

<grin> Noted!

> I'm not sure why you swung so high in pH.

It's still at the top end, I just tested it and I'm pretty good at testing . . . I'm a power plant boiler operator so I do water testing often.

No biggie though, I'll lower it -> in a more controlled manner!

> Maybe your son didn't actually put in as much as he said

I think he did, he said he put in two full measuring cups and it's a two cup measuring cup.

> or my calculations could be wrong (in which case,
> I'd like to find out and fix it).

Well, I kinda wonder about the actual volume of the thing - Intex says 2,800 but if you measure it and calculate it it should be more. However using the 2,800 figure in BleachCalc does usually result in the expected results so maybe it's right. Who knows, it's not worth fretting about now that the low PH has been resolved.

> It's been right with others using Borax so I'm not
> sure what happened and I'm really sorry for any
> trouble this caused.

Again, who knows. Every pool is different, every drop of water is different, errors happen in testing, etc. so there's bound to be the occasional fluke in there. Exactly why I always seem to end up with the flukes is beyond me though! <grin>

The overdose of Borax is no big deal - it's cheap and I can lower the PH easily, so it hasn't caused any trouble and I genuinely appreciate your help! THANK YOU Richard!

It's raining again today so I'll leave it alone for tonight and I'll start lower the Ph tomorrow - I'll post back how the recovery effort proceeds.

Thanks again, take care,

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KurtV

4 cups of 6% bleach in 2800 gallons of water should increase the chlorine by a little over 5 ppm.

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Yep, and that's what it tends to do in practice also.

I don't normally shock the pool just to shock it. I put in 2 cups every evening and it seems to stay nice and clean. If the kids have a pool party or it rains I usually to put in 4 cups. I can't say I've ever had an issue after a pool party, but it does seem that the rain likes to bring on algae, but if I just double the bleach it stays fine and it had (has) been raining about every day here.

TTYL,

Steve

> <snip> it only comes in one size....4 lbs 12 oz <snip>

OOOOPS! I'm very sorry about giving bad information! I was sure I read 4lbs on the box, but I must've missed the 12 oz part!

Please excuse me, I was a bit rattled by all of this (I did find out that the color of adrenalin is brown though!)!

It's let up raining a bit so I think I'll hop out and put in 3/8 of a cup of acid and see what happens . . .

THANK YOU everyone for all the help!

TTYL,

Steve

It took just a tad over 1 cup to bring the Ph down to 7.4.

The pool is clear, the Ph is right, chlorine is at 6ppm with a CYA of 45, and it's quit raining and is supposed to be sunshiny and hot tomorrow! Whoo Hoo! Time to take a dip!

THANKS guys!

/Steve