TA Issues; First-Year Pool Owner

First, I have to say I am so glad I found this site! :D I wish I would have found it sooner. I plan on ordering the test kit for next year. It is so late in the season now, and we only have about 4 to 6 weeks left. I have the Wal-Mart test strips as well as the drop test kit and some AquaChem strips (they show CC).

I have a 18 x 4 Intex Easy-Set pool that I filled with our well water; I guess it is around 5000 gallons (not precisely sure). We have no metals in our water, but the pH was well over 8.4 (as high as the test strips would read) and the TA was really high too. I began using HTH pH Minus, but it seemed to get me nowhere. Then I went and got "pool stored." :rolleyes: They did do some things right, such as sell me some muriatic acid, but they did not properly explain how to use it. This resulted in me not know what I was doing, freaking out over the low pH (dropped to 6.8), and so I ended up adding some HTH pH Plus to up the pH. You guessed it, the TA shot up, and water became slightly cloudy.

I do want to switch to BBB eventually, but I have lots of pool store stuff to use up; Biogaurd Smart Sticks, Biogaurd Backup for algea prevention and HTH Vinyl Pool Shock. As I use up the stuff (will use the shock up first), I will begin going the BBB route starting with using bleach to shock and eventually also to chlorinate. I have not added any borax to my water. To shock weekly, I have been using 1/2 bag (1/2 pound) of the HTH Vinyl Pool Shock (not sure if this is the right amount for my pool, but it seems to be doing okay). I still have some cloudiness to the water, but it is minimal, and I wonder if that is a TA thing or if I am not using enough shock. (???)

I have been adding 2 cups of pH Minus now for 2 days, and the pH is is now down to 7. I have no aeration device, so I spent about an hour in the pool yesterday kicking and splashing and causing as much aeration as I humanly could. :o Am I on the right track here? If I do need an aeration device, what are my options, and where do I get them?

Here are today's stats using an AquaChem strip:

pH - 7
Cl - 4 (Drops)
FC - 3-4 (WM Strips), 4 (AquaChem Strip)
CC - 3 (AquaChem Strip)
CYA - 70 (Drops with dot thingie)
TA - 270 (drops)
CH - 200 (Drops; not sure how correct that is, as the water stayed clear, and I had to add a ton of activator to get it to turn red)

Ummmm. Help? Please? :o

BTW, the pool store tried to tell me next year I have to metal magnet even though their tests clearly showed I have no metals in my water. :mad:

I use muriatic acid to keep my high PH and TA in check. You can also try to point your returns straight up and see if that helps get the PH up.

Also, noticed that your CCs were as high as the FC. If true, you need to shock your pool and get the CC down close to zero. This is probably the reason your water is cloudy. Go by Ben's table and bleachcalc for amounts. You might want to get a better test kit (DPD or FAS-DPD type) to double check your numbers.

I would like to use up my bags of shock. They are 1 pound each. How much should I use to shock the pool up to 20 ppm? A full bag? Once they are used up, I will be switching to bleach. I posted more about that in the chlorination forum.

Also, I can't point my return up. On the Intex pool, the return has a cap on it, and it is low into the water. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowymoon

I would like to use up my bags of shock. They are 1 pound each. How much should I use to shock the pool up to 20 ppm? A full bag? Once they are used up, I will be switching to bleach. I posted more about that in the chlorination forum.

Also, I can't point my return up. On the Intex pool, the return has a cap on it, and it is low into the water. :(

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I'd save the shock for next year. Your CYA is already on the high side. Next year when you fill the pool you'll need shock and CYA.

Lowering the PH to 7 and aerating is the only way to get alk down. I brought mine down from the high 200s to 110.

I've found that splashing about is by far the best aerator. Works the quickest. If you have kids, put them to work :)

On the alk, drop ph to 7, test alk, if still need to drop aerate until PH rises, drop back to 7, repeat as often as necessary.

If you bags of shock are dichlor, they'll add more cya. If they are calcium hypochlorite, they'll add more calcium hardness and can lead to cloudy/hazy water. If they are lithium hypochlorite, you paid to much but go ahead and use them :) If they are non-chlorine, sell them to a "friend" :)

I think I am on the right track, TA wise.

As far as the BBB goes, it looks like I am better off just to switch over now due to my CYA being 70 ppm. Wow, I have been seriously pool stored. :eek: If I switch now, I will have spent $100 or so for nuttin. :mad: Live and learn, eh? :rolleyes: ...:o

My daughter and I aerated lots today. The pH is still holding at 7. However, the pH is not rising, and the TA is holding steady. :confused: Is it normal for it to take a few days for the pH to raise back up?

Hi Snowymoon;

I would worry more about whether your pool is swimmable, and less about whether your alkalinity and calcium are "OK". The consequences of high ALK and CAL, on a small Intex pool aren't worth worrying about! You're going to drain this fall, and you can start over next year.

It probably is worthwhile to keep your pH at 7.0, but to protect your pool, don't go lower. Low pH can damage vinyl -- and if you go below 7.0, it will be hard to be sure you're not really at 6.0 or 5.5, which is damaging.


Meanwhile, you've got relatively high CYA *and* you have some chemicals to use up. I'm not sure what you can do with the algaecide. It's not really very good for much -- you could dilute it to about 1% and use it to clean and sanitize garbage cans and the like.

The Smart Sticks, you can use. Just go ahead, let the CYA rise, and keep the chlorine high to compensate. Check out my "Best Guess Chart". If you need to, you can get my PS100r 'stand-alone' chlorine test, so you can test higher levels of chlorine. Taylor also has some stand-alone FAS-DPD tests, but they are a lot more expensive.

I don't know about the vinyl shock -- I'm not sure what's in it. If it's dichlor*, I'd recommend saving it for next year. You can use it to chlorinate and add CYA. Dichlor is the easiest way to add CYA to the Intex type pools, since they have no skimmer you can dump CYA into.

Hope this helps.

Ben
"PoolDoc"

*Chemical names like "sodium dichloroisocyanurate" or "sodium dichloro-isocyanuric acid" => dichlor

I was hoping to reading something of that sort. :) Actually, the high TA does not seem to do much as long as the pH is kept around 7.

My Intex does have a surface skimmer basket, but I won't pour CYA into that. I did once, and it worked, but I could not clean the screen or hose off the filter cartridge for days (in this filter, that must be done daily or pool gets gunked). This caused my pool to gunk up quick with debris. I would rather do the panty-hose thing. It was also suggested that I go full BBB for now and just use up the CYA-containing stuff next spring to help add CYA to the pool and then go back to BBB and stay there once that stuff is gone.

I did something pretty smart (I think) today. I removed the hose for the skimmer basket from the intake and capped it, so it will just pull water into the filter system through the cap thingie in the water. I then took the hose and attached it to the return, moved the ladder over there and tied the end of the hose to the ladder with one of hubby's longer tube socks. Wah-lah! Aerator foutain! :D It is working really well. ::dances around:::

TA is holding at 270. I guess mostly I am learning for next year. I have no idea what my starting TA was, but both the TA and pH were off the test strips and very high. I had added some pH Minus and 2 gallons of muriatic acid (MA) diluted in water, walked around the perimeter and dumped in the pool rather than dumping in spots, over a course of 3 days. :eek: This caused the pH to drop well enough and the TA came down a bit (down to about 6.8 or so), but the pH never raised up. I freaked out about it (afraid of liner damage) and added pH up. That led to TA going right back up and some water cloudiness. I think the water cloudiness was due to not enough chlorination due to increasing CYA levels, though.

Pool is clearing nicely now. Shocked up to 20 ppm with plain ultra bleach last night, and it is aearating as I type this.

ETA: If you would like me to post a picture of it, I will. :)

Click the pictures for a closer view.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...006Aerator.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...06Aerator3.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...06Aerator2.jpg

I think I may have to tie the hose up a bit higher over the top of the ladder for more support and a bigger water drop. I may do that later today, if I can; we are expecting lots of rain. :(

Water looks nice, dosn't it? :D That is thanks to this site. It was cloudy just yesterday. ::dances around::

Looks really nice.

And rain is a great aerator :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowymoon

TA is holding at 270. I guess mostly I am learning for next year. I have no idea what my starting TA was, but both the TA and pH were off the test strips and very high. I had added some pH Minus and 2 gallons of muriatic acid (MA) diluted in water, walked around the perimeter and dumped in the pool rather than dumping in spots, over a course of 3 days. This caused the pH to drop well enough and the TA came down a bit (down to about 6.8 or so), but the pH never raised up. I freaked out about it (afraid of liner damage) and added pH up. That led to TA going right back up and some water cloudiness. I think the water cloudiness was due to not enough chlorination due to increasing CYA levels, though.

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Everyone is learning for next year, their first year! ;)

Still, it sounds like you are making good progress.

But, you may want to test your fill water. Some parts of the country have very hard water that's also high in alkalinity. If so, learning to manage that is going to need to be one of your pool care skills.

Good luck!

Ben

Snowymoon,

Another option is to get yourself a SWG which raises the PH so you will be adding acid to keep it down which will lower alk as well. I have fill water that is 250 ppm but my pool water is 120 ppm.

Wal-Mart does have a SWG that works with the current filter I have. I think it was $124 or so. Might be worth the investment for next year. I will have to look into it more.

It is working! It is working! :D After 2 days of aeration with my rigged fountain, the pH went up to 7.8. :D I added more dry acid tonight. I only have a bit left. I will see how low I can get it with this method, let the pH raise to about 7.5 again and just leave it. There are only about 5 weeks left anyway.

Now I need an extra hose so I can run the surface skimmer with the "aerator." :D

I am sooo prepared for next year! :D