how to use a water level?

Leveling stage here - ugh..;) My pool is only an 18' Intex, BUT I'm in North Carolina (beyond red clay, we're talking bricks.) and I'm doing it by hand in a yard with a major slope - had to dig 2' at highest level. Prayers of all denominations accepted!!:p

I have been spending the past few nights outside with my laser level as that's the only time I can see the beam. Are most of them visible during the day? Mine's only about 6 mos. old and wasn't a cheapie either, I'm bummed I can't get it to work outside during the day.

So, after reading some different threads here on leveling, I've come to the conclusion that if I want to work during the day (might be nice:) ), I will need to use a water level. Someone was kind enough to post a few links explaining their use and I get the idea, I'm just unsure of how to use one to level ground. Do I pound in stakes all around the perimeter, measure off a hatch-mark on one stake and then compare this to a similar hatch-mark on all the other posts?

How do most people actually use a water level for this application?

Thanks,

Amy


PS I have several different lengths of carpenter's levels and a string level, which is what I started out using, but in double-checking my work with the laser I found these to be very inaccurate. Are all string levels as useless as mine appears to be?! I was off by up to 2" (according to my laser) in several areas after my string level told me I was okie-dokie.

The laser level did not come with a reciever? Is it a rotating laser level or the kind you use to hang pictures with?

As far as the water level goes, basically all you need to do is fill the plastic tube with water, and the water will seek its own level in the tube. So if you hold a ruler at one foot on your benchmark and keep the water level there, then when you take the other end to the spot you want to make the same, then one foot down from the water level is the same as the originating point. Good luck, it is not as hard as it seems. I have never used one to put in a pool, but I did use one to keep track of an auger I did once. It was 450 feet long, 37 feet underground, we went under two roads, a parking lot and a set of railroad tracks, and it worked great!

Wonderful stuff--Mason's line. It comes in colors, is very thin, stretches till it's twangs like a violin string--tensile strength of something like 175lbs before it snaps.

Set the string 3 1/2" inches above where you want the soil--the exact width of a 2x4--and level that. You can use a water lever, a laser level or a string level. So your string is 1 2x4 thickness above your desired level. Then just use the 2x4 to check.

Run a few strings so you always have a place to check.

First saw the Red Clay Ramblers at the Station, in Carrboro, in 1978. I was a carpenter down there then, so that red clay was quite the nemeis--I remember it yanked the sole off my boot! Rain made it splatter and a job site could be spattered up as high as 4 feet...and that red clay is about as hard to get out as a waterproof Sharpie!

Hi Amy,
I posted some links yesterday in this thread
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=4099
Read the links, they explain it well.

Thanks for the replies!

Matt - Yes, you are the kind one I was referring to in my original post:) I read through/watched those links and got a great grip on the mechanics of the water level, would have no prob using one on a wall (cool that it goes around corners into diff. rooms - I'll have to remember that one, it WILL come in handy some day!), but am just not positive how to best apply it to leveling ground, was curious if there was some "industry standard" method in its use for pool/landscape purposes.

Sevver - No, my level did not come with a receiver, I'll have to look into that. I did a bit of googling on the brand name of my level and they sell several for much less than the one I have that ARE visible outside. I guess I just figured since I paid more, I should be able to do more - what I get for figgerin', eh?:rolleyes: Sounds like you got a very important job done with a water level, sometimes you just can't improve on simplicity - I'm sure I can make one work for me and my lil Intex after the story you told!!

Carl - Mason's line and 2x4, this is what I will try today! Great idea. And yes, it's amazing that red clay CAN stain so badly! I would never have believed it until I had to have the builder replace some carpet in our brand-new house that had been stained by muddy sub-contractor feet. Amazing:eek: Wouldn't be such a problem if every last bit of meager topsoil that we have here weren't graded away on every building site out there. And everyone wonders why it's so hard to grow grass:rolleyes:

Again, thanks for all the help, I'll report back.........

Amy

Amy - real easy - pick your starting point - (the grade that you want to make everything else level to), this is where you put the bucket, measure from the ground up to the water level in the bucket - write this number down (reference num).
Take a stake and pound it into the ground at the next point you want to check your elevation at, tape the tube to it, there will be a water line in the tube, measure from the ground up to the water line, this measurement will be either:
1. less than reference num - you have to remove dirt until equal to reference num
2. More than reference num - you have to add and compact dirt until equal to reference num.
3. Equal to reference num - you have to do nothing

Move onto next spot - using same stake or new stake - repeat until everything is checked

BTW, the water level can EASILY be used to set the mason's lines up. In fact, it should make it easier to set up the lines.

Matt - Excellent! Exactly the guidance I was looking for. There's always a more efficient, more reliable way of doing whatever I "think" I'm doing correctly - DOH!:rolleyes:

Thanks!

Quote:

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BTW, the water level can EASILY be used to set the mason's lines up. In fact, it should make it easier to set up the lines.

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I do believe that's what I'm a-gonna try!!:)

Thanks!

Matt, I followed your links and did some research on the water level. Looks like it would be easy and accurate. The only variable I see is evaporation. So what if it takes a year or more to level the red clay. :)

They are not cheap but the only way I have found to use a laser outdoors in the daylight. No matter how expensive the unit. They have really neat beep sounds to tell you when you are level. I silence that of course. :)

Later, Dennis

Thanks again all.....

My neighbor just stopped by, he used to be a surveyor and had a transit (?) laying around that he showed me how to use. Tripod thingy with a scope type deal on top. I'm going to give it a try, hopefully this will work!

If you feel the need to test the transit, then a good way to do it is get two set up in the middle, and get two opposite blocks level, so that you have to spin the transit around. Then take the transit down, and move it so you can shoot the two in line, without the need to spin it, the numbers should be the equal to each other again. If it passes this, then it is still calibrated and you can use it. Those things can get out of whack, even a little can equal alot over a distance.

Hi Sevver! Great idea to test the transit, I would never have thought to do it, thanks.:) I'm pretty unfamiliar with this thing, but I think I understand your instructions : set up two blocks or posts that I know to be level, put the transit in-between so that I have to turn it 180 degrees to get the same number for both, then move the transit so that it is in line with both blocks in front of it and test to get the same number.....

I know I'm turning this little pool "installation":rolleyes: into a much bigger deal than it needs to be, but I am thoroughly enjoying the learning process. I'm a dork.

Amy

Bingo, I always test any transit that I am unsure of. I have had 12 years experience in construction, mostly laying pipe, and pulling stuff back out of the ground and putting it in right again really stinks, so taking the time to check it out is definately worth it.

I have a transit myself, and even though I don't use it much, I always check it out first. My first pool I used the transit, and the second one I used a rotating laser level with a reciever. The laser is way better, it beeps at you when you get it right, my second time around is perfect, while the first time around was within an inch.

I am probably what you would call an extreme perfectionist, and I made sure it was also perfectly round, the bottom was immaculate, I used a four foot asphalt rake to get the bottom smooth. If you go over it using the rake in two directions and watch the gaps under the rake, you can fill in your voids in the sand. And I then made sure that all of the supports were perfectly plumb before I finished putting on the top rail.

All in all, you should not be too carefull in my opinion. People will be more amazed that you did it yourself if it is done right. And a big plus is finding this forum, now I can say that I cut the upkeep cost to a tenth of the original method. :)

Hey Dennis!
You're a real Devil's advocate eh!!!
Here's a way to get around evaporation - mark your water line in the bucket and refill as necessary. This weekend, refilling probably would have had to happen every 10 minutes, I know that the level of my beer was dropping at a seriously fast rate due to all this heat and humidity!!

Rotating laser levles with the receiver unit are the best, that's how I did my pool.

Well, it's done! You all are the best, with all your help and advice....wait, let me change that to advice....there was a conspicuous absence of "helpers" showing up with shovels.....:D :D :D , the manual labor is over and all is well within 1/2"! YAY.

Ended up not using the transit, tho I did play around with it for awhile....and used a water level. I remembered I have a 25' length of vinyl tube I use for cleaning out my aquariums, so I put it to use along with a 5 gallon bucket. Pounded in a ton of randomly-placed stakes and went to measuring. Apparently my laser level and 230am digs (anyone watch Seinfeld?!) went pretty well and I didn't have to adjust or redo anything.

I had done some back-filling, which I then read was a no-no, but decided to leave it. I was very careful, used two layers of those edging blocks you see everywhere, tamped between layers of fill, thoroughly wet everything once it was done and carefully but very firmly tamped every square inch with a sledgehammer. The whole time I kept thinking, man, this wouldn't be so bad if I just had a pool to jump into.....

This has been absorbed as a learning experience that will hopefully in the near future be put to good use in preparing a good part of the yard for a bigger, more permanent pool and during that construction, I might just still have this pool to jump into!!

Thanks again!!

Amy and Raleigh, the advice around here is not exactly free. We do request some photos of the pool being installed, and then the best one of all, the pool complete and being enjoyed.

Matt, my beer was doing the same thing. I had to move fast because of the heat. I was not going to let evaporation get any of my Bud Light. :)

Later, Dennis