I think we have a leak...maybe at the skimmmer?

I am probably about to show my extreme lack of knowledge about pool equipment and such but I guess you have to start learning somewhere...fortunately I found this place. :)

Anyway, I think we have a leak (23,000 concete/plaster pool-at least 25 yrs old) We are having to add water daily...last time I measured we lost an inch in about 8 hrs. We were having some problems with the water not closing off at the bleeder tee but we did get an o-ring for it that DH is going to replace later today but I'm thinking that there may be more problems somewhere else.

I was looking all around the skimmer for cracks and such and noticed at the bottom of the skimmer there is a place that looks like the caulking has come off....I've attached a picture so you can see what I am talking about. Is this supposed to be like that or does that open area needed to be caulked? Could that be where we are losing water? I have no idea about this stuff but did notice this and thought I would ask. :(

Thanks for any advice!
Andrea
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...2/100_1129.jpg

Does the water ever drop below that point?

Looks like some optical artifacts in the pic. Are you referring to the thing that looks like a thick hair coming toward the center from the upper left or the arc or semicircular type thing that looks like a crack or gap running from about 11 to 2 o'clock positions? If it/they are cracks there are ways to patch it. Some people here recommend some type of epoxies, I patched mine with a mush made of PVC cement and ground up PVC pipe. More details if we get to that and others can chime in with their recommendations. Temporarily you can squish some silicone seal (caulk) in there to see if the leak stops. It won't stick so you can easily peel it off for a real fix later.
Al

Thanks Al, for you input. I think the first thing your referring too is a leaf turned sideways....combined with my shadow...it does look strange :)

I was referring to the gap starting around 11:00 o'clockish running over to about 1:00 to 2:00 o'clockish. I don't think it's a crack b/c you can see caulking further on around toward the bottom. A gap is a good way to describe it and I didn't know if water would be escaping from there. We will try the temporary patch with silicone to see if it makes any difference.

As far as if the pool continues to leak when it gets below that point...I don't know we haven't let it go down that far. We just keep adding water daily to keep the pool running.

Hi again. Try a little dye first. With the pump off and the water very still, very carefully put a couple drops of a dye in the suspect area and see if it gets sucked in. You can use food dye (expensive), phenol red (the pH test liquid)...also expensive, or get a raw beet at the supermarket, chop it up and boil it, then eat the beet. Makes a bunch of deep red dye. You can use a basting syringe to slowly squirt the stuff.
Al

There are several places in a gunnite pool where leaks can form. Try the turkey baster method, or what I use is a zoom spout oil bottle with rit dye. If you don't find the problem in the skimmer you will have to trouble shoot the problem. First, find where the water level drops to. If it drops below the skimmer that is not where the problem is. I have many times found the problem to be in the conduit going to the light. Also, I find quite often that problems occur where pvc and the plaster/gunnite join, such as around the opening to the skimmer, inlets, and vacuum ports. If the water drops to the inlet ports,it might be in the piping under the deck. Be methodical, keep track of water loss both with pump on and off and remember a small opening will lose a huge amount of water.

I did the dye test with the phenol red solution in the skimmer. No apparent sucking in of the dye anywhere. It just suspended in the water and floated around. I also squirted some around the light and around the return jet...nothing there either....just floated around in the water until it finally disipated. We don't have a main drain...there is a place in the deep end that looks like a drain but the previous owners told us there is no main drain so all we have is one skimmer and one return jet. I thought that was odd.....is it? (remember this is an old pool)

I turned the pump off last night and over the past 12 hrs we lost between 1/2 and 3/4 of an inch. We loss more with the pump running but I haven't measured yet.

Should I just let it keep dropping to see if it stops? If I do that the kids can't swim b/c it's already below the skimmer marker. Should I just fill it back up and call someone to come out to find the leak? Our water bill was huge this past month.

I am starting to panic a little bit about this :o Thanks again for everyone's help.

My skimmers have that same semicircular area that yours shows so I don't think that is the problem. Both of my skimmers have it.

Don't panic. If you are pretty sure that the level drops faster with the pump on, you may have a clue. Once the level drops below the skimmer you can rule that part of the system out. If the sanitizer level and ph stays where it needs to be the kids can still use the pool safely. The next thing to consider is the multiport valve on the filter. Quite often the valve that controls the filter will leak internally and send a constant stream of water to your backwash discharge. If this terminates in the yard or into an open drain this is easy to check. Sometimes they are plumbed directly to a sewer and you will have to open the line somewhere to see if water is flowing to the sewer when the pump is on. Once you eliminate this as the source, try plugging the return inlets and valving off the skimmer,vacuum, and main drain. Let that stay plugged overnight and check the results. Cracks in the pipe or separations at joints many times do not leak sufficiently without pressure to show up with the die test. Professional leak detectors will seal off the piping and apply a small amount of pressure, if it holds pressure, no leaks. If you try this method be very carefull as the system was not designed to handle large amounts of pressure and you can easily create a problem that did not previously exist. Keep looking, you will find it.

I just re-read your post and thought of something I found on an old pool once. You said there was no main drain, but there was something that looked like one. Most gunnite pools have an opening in the deep end with a cover. The term main drain refers to a pipe that comes from the deep end goes to the pump. This allows water from the bottom to circulate through the filter. The pool should have one of these. Sometimes the main drain piping will develope a leak and in the interest of economy the owner will plug that off and rely on the skimmers. Additionally gunnite pools many times will have another plug inside the grated enclosure. This plug is the hydraulic relief. Many people think this is a drain plug. It is actually there to be opened when the pool is empty in order to relieve water pressure outside the pool and prevent the pool from floating. I have seen several arrangements where either plug (hydraulic relief or plugged main drain) have been rubber or have rubber components that failed from age. Dive down and look for yourself and see what is there.

The backwash water flows out of a pvc right at the pump...it is easy to see and there is no water leaking from there.

The water is about an inch below the little arrow on the skimmer (middle of skimmer) that indicates where the level should stay. I was about to convert to BBB from Pristine Blue so there is no chlorine in the water yet.....just minimal residual of Pristine Blue. Should I fill it back up to the skimmer line and get the bleach started and chemicals balanced and then worry with the leak or go ahead and let it drop all the way past the skimmer (another inch) then refill and start on the chemicals.

Sorry to keep asking so many questions....I feel like my head is spinning :confused:

probably be good to go ahead and get the chemicals right. you don't want to be in a big hurry.

I went ahead and filled back up to the skimmer line and started the conversion process.

Ran the pump throughout the night and noted in 10 1/2 hrs we lost 1 3/4 inch of water....compared to 3/4 inch loss is 12 hrs with pump off.

Thanks for the information about the main drain...there is a place down there that looks like a drain but the previous owners keep telling us "there is no main drain" It sounded so weird to me but I'm such a rookie at all this pool stuff that I really haven't explored it anymore. There is no cover over the area but there is a drain cover in the pile of stuff they left over by the pump/filter. We will dive down and check it out as soon as we are done with the conversion process and the chlorine can drop a little.

I was thinking next I need to plug jet and skimmer and turn off pump and measure water loss then...does that sound right? Or do I even need to do this? I guess I should check out the main drain first.

Thanks for your continue help!

Your instincts are correct. Plug those off and see what happens. I think you are probably about to find your problem. Go ahead and explore the missing drain also. Let me know