Helllpp Fassssssssttttttt!

Oh my gosh, the saga continues! We finally got the pool structure up and are getting ready to cut the 1.5" styrofoam for beneath the liner, but nothing is working out to level. We used a laser transit the WHOLE time for leveling and my husband also used a level stick to level the whole time we were constructing the pool. Also, my husband builds large buildings for a living so he's not new to constructing things. SO WHY IS EVERYTHING OFF? Here are some pictures, and I will comment with questions under each one:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0971Small.jpg
Here is a picture of how off level the ONE SIDE of the pool is. The other side is perfectly level (and the whole daggone thing is hooked together so how can this be?)
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0969Small.jpg
Here is a picture of the one corner of our pool that is not exactly to grade. We used a 4" block so most of the block is buried, but some is not and you can see the difference. Is this ok?
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0970Small.jpg
Here is the rest of the side I just showed you so you can see how flush with the ground the rest of it is.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0968Small.jpg
Here is the MAIN question........the directions said we needed a 7.6 foot radius for the oval part of the pool. We sprayed the radius and also drove rebar stakes into the ground around that radius. When we put the wall channel up and then put the wall into it, in order for the wall ends to meet up and overlap, we had to squeeze it together which shortened the radius. We are trying to cut foam to fit the inside. Is the weight of the water going to shift this and will there be a gap between the foam and the sides? We are so frustrated. Nothing is going right.

I'm sorry this is so long!

Here is the whole scenario if this helps any (I doubt it will):
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0965Small.jpg

Hi, I think your husband has done a great job. I really do. The issues you brought up are not big problems at all. It is tough to get everything perfect. The pool will not shift so once your foam is put into place it will stay there. Be sure and us lots of tape.

Looks like the kids are pretty excited about the pool. Lots of help too I bet.:)

The only thing that is critical in the last picture is the overall level. Side to side and end to end should all be the same. I don't see any reason not to go ahead with the foam and liner.

Dennis

Oh thank you thank you thank you!!! This makes us feel much better. We are almost done with the foam and will at least lay the liner in there and fit it into the bead channel all the way around because it is supposed to rain tonight. It's already 8:00, so I doubt we'll get the liner fully installed. At least no high winds are coming!! Thanks again soooooooooooo much Dennis! You are the pool God! :o)

Ok so we got all the styrofoam laid tonight. Did not get the liner in because I remembered it should not sit without water in it. So we're hoping to get the liner in tomorrow night and hopefully have water delivered on Wednesday. I'm too chicken to use my well. I decided against wall foam because I didn't want to wash down the interior walls (used pool and walls are a bit dirty) and I knew the foam wouldn't stick. So I skipped it. Also, didn't use a cove because the styrofoam covers the wall channel and any rough edges. Is this ok? As long as I use duct tape along the edges to join the styrofoam with the walls? We ended up putting a thin layer of sand down, then 1.5" high grade styrofoam. Am hoping my beaded liner will fit like a glove tomorrow night. Stay tuned............

It all sounds good so far. Any chance of pics before the liner intall?

Will you be following Matt's instructions for the beaded liner install?

Remember that getting the bottom seams alligned correctly is the most important thing. The end to end (or maybe side to side) seams (or seam) and the seam that goes around the cove area. It must all fit the pool before you start the water.

You should clean the walls as best possible. It will all show through your new liner, you will be much happier by spending a little more time and doing that.

You should also consider installing the liner in direct sunlight. If you decide to try in the eve and it seems tight or like it does not want to fit, hold off for direct sun.

Looking good, Dennis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hrsdennis

Any chance of pics before the liner intall?

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Ask and ye shall receive.........
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0975Small.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0974Small.jpg

Now know that it's pitch black out there and I couldn't see through my camera lens so I was guessing where the pool was. That's why the pics are all crooked. LOL! Probably could see better in the daylight. I'll snap some tomorrow before we put the liner in. Yes, I saved Matt's directions. Will be referring to them for sure!

Forgot to add that we're not done with the duct tape yet. The darkness chased us out of the pool before we were done. Will finish tomorrow.

Great Job, and your pics were fine. Look forward to more.

Dennis

Looking good!!!
You're doing a fantastic job.
My recommendation is to use the cove material, having a 90 deg. corner is not the best of choices, the cove transitions the load (Weight of water) better and also gives you piece of mind that all that weight doesn't push through a small crack left between foam and wall, if there is even a small gap, the weight of the water will eventually push the liner in there as if it was saran wrap (with or without duct tape), so the cove would cover any such potential spots.
Also, a cove gives a better transition to allow your kreepy crawley to climb the walls.
With regards to the inweard lean of the straight wall - in my opinion, all oval pools should be built that way, I call it preloading, once all the water weight start to push, your wall WILL lean out some, so by preloading, your wall should become straight once the pool is filled.

I don't have room for a pool of this size...but I am so excited for you! And...it is a family project...congratulations on such a beautie! I would LOVE to see the kids in action when this is finished...perhaps I can get the hubster to ditch the veggie garden and put in a pool....sobbing...I hate California Land Plot sizes...I hate it!

Good luck in finishing this family fun project!

Quote:

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My recommendation is to use the cove material, having a 90 deg. corner is not the best of choices, the cove transitions the load (Weight of water) better and also gives you piece of mind that all that weight doesn't push through a small crack left between foam and wall, if there is even a small gap, the weight of the water will eventually push the liner in there as if it was saran wrap (with or without duct tape), so the cove would cover any such potential spots.
Also, a cove gives a better transition to allow your kreepy crawley to climb the walls.

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Not necessarily what I was hoping to hear (LOL), but good advice all the same. My husband seems to think he can construct a cove out of our leftover styrofoam. He has some kind of tool that will cut angles out that way. Maybe we'll go that route. I am so OUT OF MONEY it isn't even funny, so maybe we'll attempt to do the cove that way. I have to go out and buy a ladder today because the one that came with our pool is a deck ladder (which is perfect except we're not putting the deck on until NEXT year). I called the local pool store and they said they are $175!!! YOWSA!

Quote:

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Good luck in finishing this family fun project!

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Well, I haven't been looking at this project as fun at all, but your post made me re-excited about the whole thing! I needed that pick-me-up, thank you!!

Hi, how is the progress today?

Not to make an issue of the cove but I do have a couple more comments. It is not a right or wrong thing, just my thoughts.

As mentioned before the primary functions of the cove are to keep the liner from getting under the bottom rails and to keep the liner from coming in contact with the sharp edges of the pool frame. Your foam has taken care of these two matters. If you are not sure about how tight the foam fits the wall or about how much tape to use you could always tape a 1' strip of plastic 6" up the wall and out onto the foam 6" all the way around the pool.

The reason I would not order preformed cove is most of it is designed to snap into the bottom rail. You have taken away that option with the foam. It would require a ton of tape to keep it in place the way your pool sits now. I have seen tape backed cove that might work but again, the expense.

The way your pool looks now is exactly the way my last one did when I installed the liner. I never missed not having a cove. My cleaner did not seem to mind either. That's not to say a different type of cleaner would not act differently. If you fit the foam tight and tape well there is no way you would ever have a gap big enough for the liner to slip into.

I am not sure there is a real right or wrong here, just more to consider.

Waiting for pics, Dennis

Dennis,
When you say the preformed type of cove snaps into the bottom rail,I
got confused.Doesn't the cove get placed AFTER the sand(in my case )
is spread out? This would surely cover the bottom rail leaving nothing
for the cove to snap into.

Thanks,
John

No John, the preformed cove snaps into the bottom rail. It is perfect for indoor display pools or pools set up on concrete. In a normal dirt situation I feel a little dirt over the rails covered by sand is more than adequate. If the cove is used it should be put in place before the sand is spread. The sand will almost cover the cove but that's ok. You are getting the wash out protection and a small birm.

Hope that helps some, Dennis

Thanks for clearing that up for me Dennis.

If I were to use a styrofoam base,would you then lay a cove on top of that?
It seems to me that if you place the cove first,then lay the styrofoam,it
would result in seam where the cove and styro meet,where the weight of
the water would want to push the liner between.

Thanks,
John

That would be correct John, cove on top of foam. Get the sticky backed cove, not the snap into bottom rail cove. There are several versions on the market but I have seen one that would work well for this application. The tape is already on the back side, you just pull off the protective cover strip and stick it to the wall.

Later, Dennis

Thanks for your help Dennis.

John

Hey John, we have gone a bit off topic but this is what it's all about.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=3435

You can do a couple of other things to build a cove that are relatively cost effective.
1. As Dennis had stated, tape plastic (vapor barrier) about 6" up the wall, letting it hang down and out on the floor. If there are gaps, make sure to push the plastic into them using a putty knife. You can build a sand cove on this plastic, the sand will then fill the space where you pushed the plastic in and it likely won't ever wash out.
2. As your hubby allready suggested, make the cove out of left over styrofoam, it will be a bit tedious to get a good fit for the bends, but once you make 1 or 2 templates, things should progress nicely - nothing wrong with using the styrofoam.

Denanbob
Love this thread.
I know it is a pain in the rear, but please keep taking pictures of the progress. I think you are really helping other people more than you realize. I am learning by watching you. The more you post in this thread, the less we will have to beg hrsdennis for help when our time comes! ;) .

Hard work makes life worthwhile.
~Hoffmans

Thanks Hoffmans! Here are some more pictures........we are actually filling the pool!!!! WOOOOHOOOOOOOOO! Now I hope I don't have to drain it like I've heard several other people have noticed problems as the pool was filling and had to drain it. The liner went in a little too smoothly for my liking. LOL. The liner was the easiest part of it all! We laid it out, picked a starting point, hooked the bead in all the way around and we were done! There are still quite a few wrinkles in the bottom that we couldn't seem to smooth out, but it's ok with me. I will comment (or ask a question) under each picture:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0976Small.jpg
Here is a picture of the styrofoam coving that we built using our leftover styrofoam. It's not 6 inches high (more like 3 inches), but I think it worked out perfectly. It's completely covered in duct tape, so that's why you can't see the foam
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0977Small.jpg
Here's a close-up of the homemade cove
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0981Small.jpg
Here's a picture of where I was concerned about the liner because it's not sitting flush against the wall at the bottom (near the cove). If I push hard with my foot, I can barely get it to touch the corner so I was thinking the liner was too small and wasn't fitting. As the pool filled about 2 inches, it seems to have flattened out some and now looks ok (although I haven't been in the pool to see it closely). I am keeping an eye on it.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1..._0995Small.jpg
Here's the (almost) finished product! I plan on running the hose about 6 hours today and 6 hours tomorrow and then having the rest of the water brought in by truck. We also just put the limestone gravel in last night and you can see it in this picture.

I'll keep everyone updated! Thanks for everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am started to see a light at the end of the tunnel!

Beautiful thread. Thank you so much for the details and follow-up posts. Pictures are awesome too.:D

How long has it taken you to construct this pool so far?
Can you break down by rough activity? for example:
__ hrs Digging
__ hrs pool frame construction
__ hrs bottom prep (including __ hrs for custom cove molding)
__ hrs liner preparation
__ hrs filling
-----------
___ hrs total

I'm sure I've forgotten a major step, but this gives a general idea.


I'm still busy reading up on which make/model 24'x12' AG pool to buy (will post my thoughts and questions in separate thread shortly). I'm seriously considering installing myself to save the $1000 quoted by AquaQuip dealer. However I have tight time budget. I probably have 3 days (27hrs) available over 1 weekend plus one day (perhaps in next weekend) to go from mostly level grass lawn to fully installed pool (and hopefully install the solar panels too!). The AquaQuip dealer said a full weekend should be enough to install. I would love independent confirmation of this estimate.

That turned out excellent!
Nice cove - certainly big enough due to the base you're using.
Those wrinkles will be gone, the liner will stretch into place nicely - almost a perfect fit.
Congratulations on a great pool and a job well done.

Quote:

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How long has it taken you to construct this pool so far?
Can you break down by rough activity? for example:
__ hrs Digging
__ hrs pool frame construction
__ hrs bottom prep (including __ hrs for custom cove molding)
__ hrs liner preparation
__ hrs filling
-----------
___ hrs total

I'm sure I've forgotten a major step, but this gives a general idea.

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Ok, at this point I cannot honestly recommend installing yourself. It REALLY was a lot more involved than we had anticipated. However, know that we had to dig 40" down to get level ground. In one of my pictures you can see the outline of the railroad ties that we used to hold the earth back because that's how much we had to dig out to get level ground. We rented a bobcat to do this and it took probably 4-6 hours I guess. The longest part of the install was installing the patio blocks and trying to get all of that level. We had a HECK of a time with this. This took us one WHOLE day (I know that's not typical because I've heard people construct a pool from start to finish in 4 hours). So you're probably asking the wrong person the above questions because it took us soooooo much longer than we thought. The pool wall went in pretty quick, the liner went in SUPER quick. The styrofoam took awhile to cut to fit and then duct tape. This took us probably 4 hours alone. I will tell you right now $1000 would have been worth it for us to have someone else do this for us. However, nobody would dig 40" included in that price. The excavation, leveling, and the patio blocks were the absolute worst part. Building the actual pool was not hard at all.

However, I can tell you that we will NEVER do this again. :o)

I'm sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear. I'm sure someone else can tell you that they breezed right through it and it all went up without a hitch in 6-8 hours. That just wasn't the case for us. Best of luck with whatever you decide. :o)

Quote:

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That turned out excellent!
Nice cove - certainly big enough due to the base you're using.
Those wrinkles will be gone, the liner will stretch into place nicely - almost a perfect fit.
Congratulations on a great pool and a job well done.

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Thanks so much Matt!! This is so nice to hear. What a journey this has been. LOL! All we have left to do is the electric and the landscaping/deck. I will take a picture of our pool from the other side so you can see our existing deck and the plan to connect them. The one set of railroad ties is dangerously close to the pool though, so we have to come up with something fast to block that. The kids already stand up on the railroad tie and lean against the pool to look in. YIKES. I'm thinking of buying a couple pieces of the pool fence (that hooks on top of the pool) just in that area until our deck is finished. We planned on doing the deck next spring, but we only have a deck ladder and when I went to buy an A-frame ladder, they were $175!!! So we decided to at least do enough of the deck to put the ladder on. It may only be a walkway deck at this point, but we'll finish it next year. :o

__ hrs Digging
__ hrs pool frame construction
__ hrs bottom prep (including __ hrs for custom cove molding)
__ hrs liner preparation
__ hrs filling

I will try to answer these for what it took on my pool (a little larger than above at 30 feet diameter)
First off, I was quoted 2600.00 - 3000.00 to install the pool by several builders, that's what turned me off hiring someone.

Digging - had a neigbour w. front end loader move a large clay pile I had on another part of my property into the spot for the pool since I needed to raise my grade about 1 foot for a future deck to meet up level from where it will start. This was done sept the year prior so it could settle over the winter.
First thing in the spring, I ran the electrical, this was a pretty long job because unfortunately, my electrical panel is at the complete opposite side of my house from the pool, I had to run through 70 feet of the house, 60 through the garage (down 2 walls), and another 100 to get to the pool (yeah, it's just a little removed from the house), from plug one, I ran it another 60 feet to get a second outlet directly opposite. Used a ditching machine for the outdoor runs, worked extremely well.
Another neighbour (bobcat service) levelled the spot and brought in screenings and sand for about $200 at time of build.
Screenings were for walls to sit on and the sand for inside the pool - I had my pool dipped to the middle by 8" deeper.
Leveling took about 2 hours with bobcat, another 3 with a rake and transum getting the screenings level and compacted using a rented gaspowered vibratory compactor.
Wall went up in about 4 hours with frame - 400 lb roll of steel - not easy to move. frame on my pool was super simple, not many screws at all - if it was a different pool, I would guess 3 times that time due to the size.
Leveling sand and building cove from sand was another 4 hours. Raking wasn't the easiest since I tried to keep things relatively uniform.
Liner prep - maybe 2 hours to get it perfect - once again, not too easy because of immense size.
Filling - 6 hours, only because it took 5x4000 gallon trucks, each trip being a one hour return trip.
All other associated work like plumbing/lighting was another half day
So far, worth every cent, we've had it 3 years now, not a problem yet, got some solar panels last year and a custom roller for the solar blanket

Matt - I'm glad you posted a more positive (and probably more realistic) estimate of what is involved. It just seems like nothing could go right with ours. For example......we started digging down for one of our patio blocks and ran into a HUGE tree root. That was a big project in and of itself just to get that out of there so we could resume setting that block. Just different things like that that always seemed to be popping up. Have we ever seen a picture of your pool? I don't think I have, so if you have one available, I'd love to see it!

Very nice. It turned out great, now it's time to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

I think Matts photos are on this site somewhere. Maybe he could post that link here as this thread seems to be drawing some attention.

I am so happy to see water in the pool. Dennis

Congratulations on your pool success.
We will be installing an 18 X 33 X52" in a few more weekends.

I noticed that you have the same liner as we do and I have been
waiting to see it in an above ground oval pool. It looks great.
I was hoping it would be that dark.

More pics please!

Rhonda

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zephans

How long has it taken you to construct this pool so far?
Can you break down by rough activity? for example:
__ hrs Digging
__ hrs pool frame construction
__ hrs bottom prep (including __ hrs for custom cove molding)
__ hrs liner preparation
__ hrs filling
-----------
___ hrs total

....The AquaQuip dealer said a full weekend should be enough to install. I would love independent confirmation of this estimate.

---

Well we started May 16 on actual yard/digging work (fill delivery) and I believe we were done/filled and had one kid in the pool trying it out the just around the first weekend of June or shortly thereafter. That was working on it 4-6 hours per night, all weekends long and a couple of vacation days from work used. Our situation may be different due to have to fill and compact the ENTIRE yard area (it was too low and no drainage). Once that part was done the construction was steady as you go, with mostly just the two of us (DH and I) and occassional help from our teenagers when heavy lifting or team work was required. I think it can be done more quickly if you are very practiced and experienced but for newbies, 2 days is really wishfull thinking unless you have a crew of people to help you.

If you are time pressed, you may rush, try shortcuts and make mistakes which you will kick yourself over later, and may have to spend money to fix- then it would be worth it to hire someone or wait until you have enough time and help to do it right and not fast.

As requested, pics of the lake (as my wife lovingly calls it)...
These were taken shortly after I built it - notice how landscaping is still non existent, we are currently finishing that off.
I had mentioned that I had to raise my yard as well, reason being, I needed the top of the pool level with the hill beside it so I can eventually build a deck level from the hilltop to the pool.
I may just have to take some new pictures with everything more or less done.
Looks like my kid's excited!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...lanandpool.jpg
Got my kid helping pick rocks.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...4/Poolwall.jpg
Liner install.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...tall_JPG_1.jpg
Wow, it looks small......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...BackYard-1.jpg
Finally! Water!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ool1_JPG_1.jpg
Level with hill in background.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...oollandsc3.jpg
The distance from the corner of Garage to pool is just over 100 feet
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../BackYard2.jpg
more pool shots with soalr reel etc...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...4/100_2892.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...4/100_2893.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...4/100_2900.jpg

Cool Matt, I love the new additions.

The devil got into me a bit today so I thought I would add a comment about the time frame question.:)

12' x 24' Evolution. Bought via internet out of Tennessee.

Set up included leveling ground, no sod removal on this one, complete pool and filter setup, no electrical.

7 ½ hours. It took at least an extra hour because we had not seen this model before. I had to glance at the instructions to assemble the Yardmore buttress free side braces.

Later all, Dennis

Instruction Manual???
I have a tshirt that has my philosophy on it.

Binford Tools - real men don't need instructions

As for timeframes, don't you find the little pools go up in a flash compared to the big ones? My wall was a BIG PITA - 400 lbs and 100 feet long!!! - why they can't just make it a 2 piece I just don't understand.......

Oh, and BTW - WRT the pics, the first bunch were taken may the year I built it, the rest with the solar roller were from the following year in june.

Great pool, Matt!! Thanks for sharing your pics. My pool is almost to the point where we need to shut off the water and install the skimmer and return. Just a couple more inches and we're good to go. I've been using my well. Yesterday, I started with 2 hoses and let it run about 9 hours. Today, I only have it going about 2 hours because I'm going to work this afternoon and I don't want to leave it unattended. We COULD be swimming by Sunday (if we like 60 degrees I guess). LOL! Tomorrow is the electrical work and then we'll start on the temporary deck.

Now thats country living Matt. Beautiful piece of land! I get property envy when I see some of these pics. I was just able to clear the 7' setback limit on the back and sides for my 24'rd pool on my little .25 acre. Nice pool too.

Anthony

Hey Matt, I did say glance at the instructions. Never more than that or it would not be very manly. :)

Yard envy, big time. That is really nice.

As for the walls, at least that is one thing Doughboy does right. They split the wall of all of there bigger pools into two sections.

Walls have gotten much heavier over the last few years. A while back all pools were 48" walls with few larger than 24' or 16' x 32'. Now it is not uncommon to see a 33' foot round pool with a 54" wall. Yes, they weigh a ton.

I have completely quit trying to lift these bad boys. I move them with a dolly and use a back and forth rock and roll motion to unwind the wall as I put it into the bottom rail. It is still a one man operation for me and does not really slow me down. A lot more grunting and groaning though.

Later, Dennis

Thanks for the comments - yes, we love our little piece of heaven, we've had the creek flood over in winter, then freeze and we have had as much as 2 acres perfectly skateable - a great neigbourhood skating party!
My dog's the real beneficiery of this place since he's home all day long chasing squirrels, digging up gophers and anything else he can find - he doesn't even like coming in at night anymore, a real country dog!

Dennis, yes, those walls do require a lot of back and forth, I did mine with all the sand in there, ended up just shoving planks under it and keeping a couple spares to move to once one set ran out - having a solid surface under it makes the unrolling job easier.

Matt, we did ours exactly like you described with the planks. BTW, what is the wall pattern on your pool called? It looks almost exactly like ours....Mystic Palm it was called.

Beautiful yard - how do you mow all that? Must have a yard tractor with mower? We live out in the country too, but have a lot more woods surrounding everything - we popped our pool back into a nice protected spot only open to the west, but not too much (house is maybe 75' to the west) We get some STRONG N and S winds sometimes - but rarely feel more than a breeze at the pool.

Your solar reel was our inspiration for building ours. Nothing mounted to the rails of the pool, nothing to lift off and put somewhere else.