Tonight I add salt to my non SWG above ground pool

I have read as much of the salt threads as I could find, and as soon as my wife heard me say something about adding salt to the pool she insisted I go for it. So I'll be stopping by Lowe's tonight to pick up some salt.

From what I have read, I want to get the purest water softener salt I can find. Also, I'm shooting for low levels now as I can add more later as needed. I have a 24' x 52" round pool (about 12,500 gallons), so according to the bleachcalc I need about 100 pounds of salt to get about 1000ppm. If salt is sold only in 40# bags instead of 50#, then I'll only add 80# for the first run, as I can always add more later.

The only thing missing is a test kit for salinity (not included with my Taylor kit), so I'm going strictly by "feel" on this one. I'll post the results of adding the salt in the next day or two after we get some swim time.

I'm lost! WHY are you adding salt to a NON-SWG system? What will it do for you?

Many people here on this site and elsewhere claim that adding salt to your pool helps make the water less 'harsh'. The claim is that it is good for the hair and skin, and reduces or eliminates eye burn.

All of these things are attractive to my wife and I, so I figure why not give it a try? After all, it's the same concept used for in-home water softeners, so why wouldn't it work in a pool environment?

Not sure I buy that it does anything for you, but your pool already has salt in it. Think about it for a few minutes.

You add chlorine as either sodium hypochlorite or calcium hypochlorite. You add borax, or baking soda or other pH up chemicals. Thus you have Cl ions an Na ions floating around in the water. That is exactly what you get when you add NaCl (salt). These ions are all dissolved in the water. When you add salt you are adding more which may or may not dissolve depending on what levels you all ready have. You may actually create water chemistry problems, not to mention the potential for corrosion on certain metals. Don't think it a good idea.

Cleanclothes,

There are several "veterans" on the board who have added salt to their non-swg pools with excellent results. Take a look through the Salt Generator forum and you'll find a couple of threads about it. It does no harm to a properly balanced pool, liners, finishes, etc.

cleancloths, hundreds, thousands or even hundred thousands of SWG pool owners probably disagree with you.

I added salt to my non SWG pool and the way the water feels while in the pool or after getting out is noticably better, much preferred.

If you have an open mind I recommed you do a search for adding salt. I've had absolutely none of the problems you mentioned, and expect never too. The salt levels I ended up with are less than half those recommended for SWG pools.

While it likely has done no harm, it will impact the overall water balance chemistry. Salts act as buffers and you should already be buffered, thus you will end up with slighly salty water - if you like that go for it, but I would never add a chemical that I really don't need.

There are millions of people that claim things do things that they really don't - that does not make them right.

I would be interested in seeing some technical documentation (not just opinions) that adding NaCl to a chlorine sanitized pool has value. Please let me know of a link where I can see that.

Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rangeball

If you have an open mind I recommed you do a search for adding salt.

---

Guess not... :(

Cleancloths, I'm not sure I understand your objections here. Many people use salt water chlorine generators to generate chlorine in their pools. They keep a salinity level around 3000ppm. Not all of that salt has been processed into chlorine at one time, so there will be salt in the pool.

Aside from the chlorine generating aspects of the equipment, I gather that the rest of the chemistry is identical to a non-SWG pool. In other words, it has no effect on the rest of the pool chemistry.

I'm shooting for roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the levels of salt for my non-SWG pool. I don't worry at all about corrosion, since everything in a pool is designed to be around chlorine. Since the reason salt is corrosive is because of the the reactance the world has to the chlorine in the salt molecules, there is no 'additional' corrosive effect from salt in the water.

As for a chemical that is not needed, as you have already pointed out, there is already salt in every chlorine pool, just at much lower levels. I don't need salt in my water, but salt in my water will make the water feel better on my skin and hair and eyes. Since my skin and hair and eyes are all important to me, adding salt to my water to make them feel better is a benefit. Since (as you have already pointed out) salt is a 'buffer' and has no adverse effects on the rest of the pool chemistry, I fail to see one single drawback of putting a modest amount of salt (approx. 1000ppm) in my pool water.

For everyone else, I'll post how much difference adding salt to the water feels after a few days of swimming in it.

I did this recently and everybody likes the feel. I didn't tell anybody before I did it and the kids & wife noticed the difference imediately and asked about why the water felt different. It feels nicer/softer on the skin and is nicer on the eyes. You already have some salt in your pool but you can always add more. Most SWG's need around 3000 ppm in order to generate enough chlorine. I didn't go that high and decied to start with just a little and see how it went. Since all I wanted was the nicer feel I didn't need to go that high. Salt water in the ocean is much higher, about 35,000 ppm .

I have an inground gunite pool/pebble finish. I would worry about an above ground pool though as you have metal and more salt means quicker corrosion. Any water is going to corrode metal, add salt and it will do it quicker.

-- john

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Raddish

Cleancloths, I'm not sure I understand your objections here. Many people use salt water chlorine generators to generate chlorine in their pools. They keep a salinity level around 3000ppm. Not all of that salt has been processed into chlorine at one time, so there will be salt in the pool.

Aside from the chlorine generating aspects of the equipment, I gather that the rest of the chemistry is identical to a non-SWG pool. In other words, it has no effect on the rest of the pool chemistry.

I'm shooting for roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the levels of salt for my non-SWG pool. I don't worry at all about corrosion, since everything in a pool is designed to be around chlorine. Since the reason salt is corrosive is because of the the reactance the world has to the chlorine in the salt molecules, there is no 'additional' corrosive effect from salt in the water.

As for a chemical that is not needed, as you have already pointed out, there is already salt in every chlorine pool, just at much lower levels. I don't need salt in my water, but salt in my water will make the water feel better on my skin and hair and eyes. Since my skin and hair and eyes are all important to me, adding salt to my water to make them feel better is a benefit. Since (as you have already pointed out) salt is a 'buffer' and has no adverse effects on the rest of the pool chemistry, I fail to see one single drawback of putting a modest amount of salt (approx. 1000ppm) in my pool water.

For everyone else, I'll post how much difference adding salt to the water feels after a few days of swimming in it.

---

GOOD Points, maybe it won't hurt anything. Won't you end up with white stains on everything once water splashes dry. Also doesn't salt dry out your skin.

Are you eyes dried out? There's salt in tears.

Do you have white patches on your skin? There's salt in sweat.

Adjusting the salinity of pool water to more closely resemble the bodies natural salinity to make the water "feel" better doesn't take as much salt as I think you're imagining.

Post salt my skin and hair feel much better after getting out, and I've yet to see any hint of white residue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnInSoCal

I would worry about an above ground pool though as you have metal and more salt means quicker corrosion. Any water is going to corrode metal, add salt and it will do it quicker.

-- john

---

Not any quicker than chlorine since it is the chlorine in a salt molecule that makes salt corrosive. Salt by itself is not corrosive. Salt has to react with something else (like certain kinds of metal) to be corrosive. When salt comes into contact with something that reacts with it, what happens is that the Na is split from the Cl in the salt molecule. When the Na is split from the Cl, it is the Cl that reacts to the world around it and corrodes metal. Since Cl is easily split from Na, that is the very reason that 'salt' is considered corrosive.

Pools are designed to be around Cl. All the metals in an above ground pool are designed to exist in a Cl environment. Simply adding NaCl to a Cl environment won't have any more effect on those metals than the Cl that is already in and around the pool. Make sense?

I'm not sure I understand the salt doesn't add to the corrosiveness. Boats are designed to be around water, however when used in salt water they have much more and quicker corrosion. Perhaps it's something else in the ocean water but it's far more destructive to equipment, pumps, engine water jackets, hoses, etc. than fresh water is. I used to live on a boat in the ocean and the water is incredibly destructive.

Also doesn't areas that use road salt cause more damage to car undersides ? I understand that the car is not treated to handle a chlorine water environment or salt.

But I would think that any type of protection/galvinazation for pool equipment metal will eventually breakdown or have a few places that protection wasn't applied correctly and when that salt does get into contact with the metal that it might corrode quicker than if it was just water with very low salt levels would ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnInSoCal

But I would think that any type of protection/galvinazation for pool equipment metal will eventually breakdown or have a few places that protection wasn't applied correctly and when that salt does get into contact with the metal that it might corrode quicker than if it was just water with very low salt levels would ?

---

This is true. However, the galvanized metals are designed to exist in a Chlorine environment. It is the Chlorine in the salt that makes salt corrosive.

The examples you gave are indeed good examples, but the concentrations of salt we are discussing are minuscule compared to sea water or road salt. In perusing the documentation about SWGs, I haven't come across anything that states any additional corrosive properties or warnings when using them. Frankly, I think that the levels of salt we are talking about are just so low that it really doesn't make that much of a difference.

oh yes, I understand that SWG is much lower level of salt than the very harsh ocean, orders of magnitude. And if all you want is the "feel of softer water" then you don't even need the 3000 ppm that a SWG might need. So far I like the feel and so does the rest of the family. I haven't heard of anybody that added salt to their pool but then wanted to undo it. I may eventually go to a SWG but for now I just added the salt ot get the feel and make it nicer on the eyes for the kids.

In the 8 years that I have been using a SWCG, I have never had any problems with corrosion from salt, from any equipment at all.

My wife who was a pediatric nurse, appreciates the "silky" feel that salt can give, no itchy eyes, no scaling on the skin.

John, with all due respect, you do not take your car for a swim in your pool, but you are fully prepared to drive it on salty roads, knowing that you will have corrosion if you do not wash the undersides with fresh water. Been there, done that.

Seawater has a concentration of 3% salt, whereas a pool has 3,000/1,000,000* 100 = 0.3%. This is apples and oranges.

If you have to talk corrosion, then aluminum, copper, carbon steel, iron, brass are the metals you have to worry about. On a boat at sea, you had to have zinc anodes to reduce the corrosion on other metals.

The only areas that salt will give a problem is with a concrete border next to the pool, and aluminum rakes. Beyond that there should be no other effects.

Hope this helps.

Pat

The reason you want to add salt to a non SWCG pool is the same reason contact lens solution and IV's are saline solutions. If you put purified water into your eyes it "waters down" the salt in your eye's cells and causes them to sting, swell from excess water and sometimes burst. The cell becomes waterlogged because the low salt water is moving into the cell to water down the salty water that is naturally inside the cell. (This is known as hydrostatic pressure.) Contact lens saline solution is normally about 9000ppm because that's what feels good and it's approximately what's in your eyes. The closer your pool water gets to this point the less it stings your eyes and the more it tastes like sweat. Thus giving us a balance to work with.. :D The end result is that salty pool water is kinder to your body because there is a smaller differential between the saltiness of the water and the saltiness of your body.

Also, if you add salt to your pool you will increase the corrosiveness of your pool because NaCl contains chlorine.

Well, my wife and I dumped 80 pounds of 99.8% pure water softener salt pellets into the pool this evening. She had a lot of fun playing with the pellets, piling them up and noticing the temperature differential around the salt. Adding this much salt actually dropped the temperature of the water by a couple of degrees.

My immediate impressions are that everything is definitely more buoyant. Prior to the addition of the salt, I could walk on the pool floor on my knees. This is no longer possible, as I tend to float away instead.

My hair and skin were both smoother after I had been out of the water for a while, and my wife says her hair was much more manageable to deal with when she took a shower.

There was no discernible taste to the water at all. Of course, 80 pounds is only about 760ppm increase. My wife wants me to add one more bag, so I'll probably pick up another bag this week.

All in all, I think this was definitely a good decision. :)

Well I am interested, how do you add it, just pour the bag of pellets in? Then get in and stir them around? What do you get, just water softener salt? I have an 8000 gallon pool, how much would a bag raise it approximately? Would a pool store be able to test for it?

I hope this is not too geekey.
The salinity of tears is around 9000 ppm dependant on body hydration. Body salinity is around 9000 ppm or isotonic at 0.9%. The ocean is around 0.35 % or 35000 ppm dependent on depth and temperature. Most salt used on the roads is Calcium Chloride witch is more corrosive than Sodium Chloride.
The reason cars and boats have more problems are higher concretions and other metals involved.
The reason it fells better is osmosis. Water is constantly trying to balance itself. You have less osmotic pressure at higher concretions of salt in your pool. Less water in to the skin means less flaking and itching. Think of it this way, you have a dead layer of skin at the surface the epidermis, as water enters these cells they swell and burst:eek: , when you get out of the pool these busted cells dry quickly, and cause itching and flaking. In salted water these cells have longer before they burst. The higher the salt levels to isotonic the less damage to the cell membrane.
I haven’t salted my pool yet but I do plan to as I learn the BBB chem. method better.:D
Later
Steve

Medvampire I would say you aren't being geeky enough. Shouldn't seawater be 3.5% not .35% by your own calculations?

Quote:

---

Shouldn't seawater be 3.5% not .35% by your own calculations

---

Opps, Finger slipped, hate it when that happens.:o

Quote:

---

and dreams of a SWG

---

Me too! :D

Steve

If there's one thing I've learned from this site...it's that you measure and treat the problem you have. You don't just take stabs at what the problem may be...or toss a coin in a general direction in hopes that things will turn out grand.

Could this be another case where measurements would be the best bet...to see both where we're starting from...and our target range.

just wondering???

dan

I am going to get my water tested and then add salt to around 1200 ppm and retest. I just haven’t found a good source of salt yet.
Steve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sevver

Well I am interested, how do you add it, just pour the bag of pellets in? Then get in and stir them around? What do you get, just water softener salt? I have an 8000 gallon pool, how much would a bag raise it approximately? Would a pool store be able to test for it?

---

That is exactly what we did. To find out how much you need, just download the bleachcalc by mwsmith2 and enter your numbers. Don't forget to change your units to imperial instead of liters. This calculator will also help you with your BBB pool maintenance.

A good source of water softener salt is Lowe's or Home Depot. I also believe that Wal-Mart sells it, too, as well as stores like Sam's and Costco. Try to get the purest salt you can find. In my case, we were able to find 99.8% pure salt.

Ok, it says that if I add 80# of salt, the level will go up by almost 1200ppm for my 8000 gallon pool. I am thinking that if I start off with between 40# and 60# then it should be a good start. How long does it take for the salt to disolve? Do I have to be in there mixing it around?

It took about 20 minutes to half an hour for my wife and I to dissolve two 40# bags. She had fun playing with the pellets, piling them up, moving them around with her feet, etc. The biggest thing was that we essentially were in the pool to help stir up the water. I'd recommend helping the salt dissolve.

What I did was take a bag and open it in the middle of the pool, and spread it around a bit from the middle. We then shuffled it around with our feet until it was pretty much dissolved.

1200ppm is about where we want to get to, so adding two bags will probably be perfect for your pool. If you aren't sure, then just get one bag and start with that. You can always add another later, but if you are happy with the results of just one bag, then there is no need. I did the same thing, I started with two bags, knowing that three or four would be what I ultimately will want to add. Two is nice, but I'll be adding one more sometime this week, and maybe one more after that.

Just remember though that like CYA, the only way to get the salt back out of your pool is to drain and refill, so it's better to use less than you think you need than to overshoot your goal.

So, does adding this salt have any effect on PH, TA, TC/FC? Is the luxury of having softer skin/hair and nicer feeling water going to result in any additional chemicals having to be added or any more work maintaining? I'm reading these posts and really tempted to try it, but if its going to be more maintc work.......(not that its so much now with BBB and a bit of leaf skimmer/vac work) But I AM the only one here doing the work, so less is better!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NWMNMom

So, does adding this salt have any effect on PH, TA, TC/FC?

---

Nope :)

Quote:

---

Is the luxury of having softer skin/hair and nicer feeling water going to result in any additional chemicals having to be added or any more work maintaining?

---

Nope :)

Quote:

---

I'm reading these posts and really tempted to try it, but if its going to be more maintc work.......(not that its so much now with BBB and a bit of leaf skimmer/vac work) But I AM the only one here doing the work, so less is better!

---

Dumping in the salt is the most work involved. After that, it's business as usual :)

Ok I am going to give it a go, why not. How long does the salt remain in the pool?

Until you drain your pool. Salt is like CYA in this respect. You can't decrease what you put in without draining the water and replacing it.

Don't forget to test your salt levels prior to adding or you may shoot over your target. My pool with a fresh fill already has about 600ppm of salt in it .

I got Solar Salt, Extra course salt granules, but it says that it is naturally evaporated by sun and rain now that I am reading it, I take it that it is not what I want? I will not add it until I get an answer. thanks

It is 99.8% pure salt though.

This stuff?? Seems okay to me.

I bought a salinity test kit today, and I am less than 1000ppm at this point. We will be adding at least one more bag to the pool, probably tomorrow.

Where did you get a salinity test kit? How do you know how many ppm you should have in your pool? Thanks

Taylor has a Salt test kit, (K1766), that you can order from your pool store.

Pat

Sad to say that no one near me had a dropwise test kit for salinity, so I *GASP* bought some salt test strips. :eek:

I figure that I don't need an exactly accurate reading on the salt, so test strips will do fine. It's not doing much more than giving me a ballpark figure anyway.

ellenicol, the conventional wisdom seems to be to add about half the amount of salt required by a SWG for the best benefits. SWG's need around 3000ppm, so I'm shooting for 1200 - 1500ppm. Supposedly you can't taste the salt at these levels, but you still get all the benefits of silky smooth skin, manageable hair, and non-stinging eyes. :)

Even at around 800ppm, these benefits are already beginning to be present.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sevver

I got Solar Salt, Extra course salt granules, but it says that it is naturally evaporated by sun and rain now that I am reading it, I take it that it is not what I want? I will not add it until I get an answer. thanks

It is 99.8% pure salt though.

---

This is what I used. No problems :)

There is one potential problem I see for salt added to an above ground pool.

And I believe someone else has mentioned it on at least one other thread.

When salt water splashes over the wall, it flows down into the lower track. where it will evaporate and form salt crystals. I am not sure how corrosion resistant the track on an average AG pool is, and what effect there might be.

This is the one factor that has been keeping me from adding salt to my AG.

Thoughts ? Opinions?

.