Shock and SWG

Hi -

I'm new to the forum, but I've been reading a lot to get myself educated. This is our 4th season with our 18x39 inground vinyl pool, and this year I decided to invest in an Autopilot SWG. When I opened the pool over the memorial day weekend, I (mistakenly) used the cheap HTH algaecide (1 gallon jug), and added shock like I usually have done each year. The next day, I added about 500lbs of salt, and I'm around 2500ppm. I am going to add more salt, but I had a couple of questions:

1) My chlorine level is still above 3ppm (from the initial shock!:confused: ) - is this normal? I've never seen chlorine levels hang around for so long from an initial shock.

2) Myself and my kids all have noticed that our eyes are irritated after swimming. I'm assuming this is due to the high chlorine levels?

3) Should I turn on the SWG (after getting my salt readings correct), and will this help bring the chlorine levels down to the proper levels?

I should add that I've ordered Ben's test kit, but in the meantime, I've bought a 4 test drop kit just to get some basic readings. My chlorine is definitely over 3ppm, my pH is around 7.2, and my alkaline is about 120. I have no idea about the CYA of CH, so bear with me until my kit arrives. Can anyone shed some light regarding my questions?

Thanks - Eric (re-educated pool noob)

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Originally Posted by OffTheDeepEnd

2) Myself and my kids all have noticed that our eyes are irritated after swimming. I'm assuming this is due to the high chlorine levels?

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3ppm isn't high at all. In a pool with a SWC, 3ppm is probably too low due to the high CYA levels usually used with a SWC.

I'm sure about to get better advise than mine, but it sounds like you need to check your Combined Chlorine levels along with the FC. If you have CC you will need to shock again till the CC is 0. If I'm not mistaken it's the CC that makes the smell and irritates your eyes.

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Originally Posted by JohnT

3ppm isn't high at all. In a pool with a SWC, 3ppm is probably too low due to the high CYA levels usually used with a SWC.

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Not according to Poolsean and to the tech support at Goldline controls.

the irritated eyes are from the HTH algecide which is a linear quat. The reason your Cl levels are higher than 3 ppm is becuase the SWG is generating chlorine! You have to ajust the cell output and pump run time to get your chlorine levels in line. Get a full set of test results and post them and then we can better advise what to do.

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3) Should I turn on the SWG (after getting my salt readings correct), and will this help bring the chlorine levels down to the proper levels?

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Sounds like it is off now so it would not be producing chlorine.

I agree with testing for CC, (and everything else for that matter :D )

Thanks for the responses. I thought I recalled reading on some posts here that around 1.5ppm chlorine was ideal for the SWG. At any rate, the unit is not generating chlorine right now, as the setting is at 0%. It simply is controlling the pump run time, which is why I was wondering if setting the unit to x% (maybe 30-40%) would help balance out some of my chlorine issues. If I understand correctly, I thought part of the generation process involved the elimination of chloramines in the cell, thus brining my "good" chlorine levels more in line with where they should be. I know that I still have some unknowns as I'm patiently waiting for Ben's kit to arrive.
If the HTH algaecide is causative of the irritated eyes, how long should it be until that dissipates? Again, it's been almost 3 weeks now since that was initially added.

Do not wait for Ben's test kit. Get a sample to a pool store and post the results as Waterbear suggested. Make sure the store does NOT use test strips. We cannot help you without a full analysis.

Pat

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Originally Posted by waterbear

Not according to Poolsean and to the tech support at Goldline controls.

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Since the SWC is off, you wouldn't be getting the benefit of the "mega-shock" in the chlorinator though, so you are then dealing with a (potentially) high CYA, non-SWC pool that requires a high Cl level per Ben's table.

Sorry, I missed that the SWG was not turned on yet!:o

Well, now I'm really confused or something. I decided to turn on the SWG just for kicks, and it did kick on for a few minutes, but then it went off again. Has anyone else seen this with their autopilot digital? It is set to power level 1, and I set it at about 30%. The word ON. came on, but then it says OFF. again. I did the test autopilot, and my voltage says it's 24V to the cell, which if I recall, is not good. The Check System light is not on, and I have no other indications that anything is wrong. The salt is about 2700-2800ppm (a smidge low), but other than that, nothing is wrong according to the system. Has anyone else seen this with their Autopilot? So far, I'm not having a good experience with the SWG :(

That is normal operation. The cell will cycle on and off according to the % you have selected. I'm not sure of the cycle time, but for an example, if you have it on 50%, then in a one minute period the readout will say "on" for 30 seconds, and "off" for 30 seconds. If you are running above 50% all the time to maintain you CL level, I'd take the unit up one power level and reduce the % on time. That should help increase your cell life.

I would also add more salt to get to 3200-3400 ppm.

Eric, I re-read the thread and noticed you've not posted any CYA values for your pool. I'd really stress getting this tested ASAP. When you have that number, you can use the best guess chart to know where your FC should be:

Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC
=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm
=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm
=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm
=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm
=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

You sound a little frustrated at this point. I was in a very similar situation several months ago so I'll add my .02 cents worth below....remember, POP (Pool Owner Patience) is the best thing you can add right now :)

If you find your FC is low according to your CYA, I'd use bleach to get the FC where it needs to be ASAP. This will stave off any potential algae problems. It will take several days for the SWC to get to a stable FC residual, especially if you're fighting a Chlorine demand.

Balance your water according to the advice on this forum (pH 7.2-7.6, TA 80-150, etc.) This will help keeps things under control while your SWC does its job.

Do you have the manual for the Autopilot? If not, you can find it on their website. I'd re-read it again just for fun.

In the meantime, crack open a coldie, and take a dip if your water's warm enough! ;)

Those best guess figures are fine for manually chlorinated pools but don't apply to SWG pools as the water through the cell is superchlorinated when the cell is energized as opposed to having the kill zone within the pool itself.

At least according to PoolSean and the AquaRite people.

I've had the AquaRite for several years now with CYA at 70-80ppm, chlorine 1-2 with absolutely no problems. No point in wearing out a $400 cell prematurely by increasing the chlorine higher than the recommended value of 1-3.

Thanks a lot again for the responses. I'm planning on taking a water sample on Monday to get my figures until Ben's kit arrives. Hopefully then I'll be able to post some numbers. About the autopilot, I don't remember reading that the cell is on/off for periods of time, but I guess that would make sense now that I think about it. I thought the % meant that less of a charge was sent to the cell, but now I understand that a % of time makes more sense. You guys are lifesavers. In fact, it's 90 degrees out now, and the pool temp is 86, so it's time for a dip :)

OK - I finally have some numbers, but I can't be certain as to their accuracy. I took water to the pool place, but they used the dreaded test strip :eek: But here it goes -

Total Alkalinity - 70
pH - 6.3
CYA - 120
CH - 290
TC - 3.8
FC - 3.8
Salt - 3200-3300ppm

Now, the chlorine #'s seem OK compared to my simple drop test kit, but the pH seems way off. I get around 7.0 with the drop kit compared to their 6.3. The alkalinity, I get about 100, they get 70. So which #'s do I believe? I have the SWG running now at about 50% at power level 1 just for kicks. Does anyone have any suggestions about my current readings and where to go from here?

Add some 20 Mule borax STAT to raise that pH up to 7.2. You could damage your liner. At least one full box.

Find a pool store that does not use test strips, and get another sample to it ASAP. The TA of 100 ppm is Ok if you are testing it with your drop test kit.
The salt value is Ok as well.

If you are getting or waiting for Ben's test kit, I would get a Taylor 2006 kit in the meantime, or equivalent.

You mentioned in a previous post that DC volts was 24. You should also be able to see the amps associated with that. 24 volts is Ok if the amps are in the region of 5 - 6 amps.

Pat

Well, Ben's kit finally arrived, and here's my #'s:

FC 6.5
CC .5
TC 7
pH 7.2
Alk 100
Cal 140
CYA 115
Salt 3600-3800

I'm rather confused about the salt level, as my Autopilot is saying my salt is around 2800ppm. Could the calibration be off that much? I thought it seemed high, as a lot of folks here say that they cannot taste the salt, but I definitely can, which is why I figured it was higher than what Autopilot was saying. Any ideas on my #'s and the salt calibration?

How are you measuring the salt level? Meter or drop test. The drop test should be used to calibrate the meter.

If the salt meter is agreeing with the drop test, then the Autopilot has to be calibrated upwards.

On the Autopilot scroll through the menu to get to the Maintenance Menu and select it.

Scroll down to Calibrate Salt, and select it. Then use the up and down arrows to set the salt level to the test level.

Your numbers look good, except that there should be no CC at the FC level you have. The CYA might be the problem here as it is higher than recommended (60 - 80 ppm) and needs to be lowered by draining.

Hope this helps.

Pat

I used the drop test that came with Ben's kit. I figured I'd have to drain some to get the cya levels down, but I'm waiting until after our pool party this weekend. I'll set the calibration on the Autopilot.

Just to give you another data point, I keep my CYA at 50 (rather than the 60-80 recommended by the manufacturer) because my pool is in direct sun all day, and I set my SWG to maintain 5ppm free CL. No algae problems, no chlorine smell and no stinging eyes.

~Rick~

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Originally Posted by OffTheDeepEnd

I used the drop test that came with Ben's kit. I figured I'd have to drain some to get the cya levels down, but I'm waiting until after our pool party this weekend. I'll set the calibration on the Autopilot.

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There have been some problems with the salt test reading high. Ben has been working on a fix for it...get your salt level checked at a pool store or check it with an "AquaCheck White" salt test strip and see which is closer...the drop test or you readout.

I would NOT calibrate the AutoPilot yet. I would wait. It seems that many folks are having trouble with the Salt kit in Bens kit being accurate. I would find somewhere that can do a good test for salt and see what they come up with. If you look at the forum for the kit test you'll see the post about problems with the salt test.

Your's may be right but I would try and find a good second opinion and see what they say.

Russell

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Originally Posted by OffTheDeepEnd

I used the drop test that came with Ben's kit. I figured I'd have to drain some to get the cya levels down, but I'm waiting until after our pool party this weekend. I'll set the calibration on the Autopilot.

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