filter/pump problems - pool newbie

Hello,
I moved into my house over the winter and I'm trying to get the pre-existing pool going. Before this I knew NOTHING about pools.

My pool is 30x15 and an est 15k gallons. It's an above ground pool but it is somewhat in ground. It has a deep end and to me it seems like an in ground pool. I have a DE filter and a 1.5 hp pump. It seems the system is fairly old. The first time I plugged in the pump it spewed water out of the hose which connects the filter and pump. So I replaced that one and the pump worked but not much came out of the jet so I replaced all the hoses cause they seemed pretty leaky. The water at this point was pretty green. I got the filter going pretty good and actually had it going for several hours and then I read that you shouldn't run the filter without DE in it. Woops. So I put DE in and the pump pushes water but it doesn't seem like much. The pressure shoots up to 20psi but sometimes fluctuates up and down pretty rapidly (from 10 to 20 psi). It generally runs at 20psi. I thought that seemed high so I opened up the filter. The filter elements were covered with green crud, I'm assuming this was DE covered with algea. So I hosed them off thoroughly and put them back in and put DE in. It still runs about the same. The pressure goes up to ~20psi and the water flow isn't great.

So my question is, could my filter elements be screwed up? I read you shouldn't run it for more than a min or two without DE and I ran it for several hours with a really dirty pool so it seems maybe I did. I'm pretty close to saying forget it and just going and getting a new system, a cartridge one as they seem to be the easiest to maintain. It seems that would be better than buying new filter elements for $35 each, especially since the pump/filter seem to be pretty old (man I wish I would've asked the seller for info about the pool!).

thanks a lot,
Ryan

Hi, Ryan,

It sounds like your issue is with algae....you've got to get that killed and out of your pool.

If you could post test results for :

Free Chlorine
Combined Chloramines
pH
Alkalinity
CYA

That would help us all from guessing and we can get your pool cleared up. I am assuming from your description the pool has a vinyl liner. Is that correct?

PS - If you get a new filter and ease of maintenance is your primary concern, get sand.

DE filters are so good at getting small stuff out of the water that they seem to require almost constant attention when fighting an algae problem. You may have to work on it every 15 or 20 minutes for a while. Get your chlorine level up and kill the algae or it will get worse.

Ryan,
Welcome to the forum. The advice you've gotten so far is good. I just want to comment on your statement about cartridge filters being the easiest to maintain. In my opinion...a definite MAYBE. I have only ever had sand. I believe cartridges would have the same problems you're experiencing now with plugging during an algae bloom, and, they are expensive to replace and a pain to clean. The opinions about which type of filter is best has been discussed to great extents on these forums over the years. Unless you are a total clean freak, sand may be the best way to go. Cheap to maintain as there are no replacement parts unless damaged, and just backwash, rinse, then switch to filter and go. Cartridges and DE do filter smaller particles but a few of us have been adding a little DE to our sand filters to get the best of both worlds and it seems to work. So, bottom line, if you are considering changing out the equipment, do a lot of research here, post with questions, then make a very educated decision.
Al

There is no "best" filter system--all 3 can be very effective. There is a best for ME, CarlD--that's sand. My dad's best was DE. Other members LOVE their cartridges.

There is a wrong filter--that's the one you HATE and wish you hadn't bought.

Thanks for the replies. Yes it is a vinyl liner. The pool at this point is not green, it's "blue". The water is pretty cloudy (I can't see the bottom even in the shallow end) but the green that was there is now gone. It's been that way ever since I had the water tested and put chemicals in (that's a whole other story/problem) which was about a week ago. So do you still think it is algea?

I don't have the numbers but just using a test strip this is what I get:
Chlorine is very low to low
pH is low to ok (6.8-7.2)
alkalinity is low to ok (40-80)
Cyanuric Acid is low

When I first went to the pool place and had the water tested all my numbers were way high but they had me put in too much and then all my numbers were way low! The last thing I put in was 10lbs of "soda ash". I've also put shock in multiple times (including this morning after doing the soda ash yesterday) and still no chlorine. I was looking at this as a separate issue than the filter/pump but maybe it's not?

Is it not likely that my filter grids are screwed up from me running the pump for a while with potentially no DE in the filter? If I put too much DE would it cause this problem?

That is interesting that you're saying cartridges are not as easy as sand. I definitely got the impressing cartidges were easier from what I've read on various sites. The concept of it seems easier to me for some reason.

thanks again for the help
Ryan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryanm

That is interesting that you're saying cartridges are not as easy as sand. I definitely got the impressing cartidges were easier from what I've read on various sites. The concept of it seems easier to me for some reason.

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Until you have to clean them, cartridges are easier. With sand, to clean you turn a valve, let the pump run for a couple of minutes while sipping a drink, shut the pump off, turn a valve, let the pump run a minute or so while sipping a drink, shut the pump off, turn a valve, turn the pump on and go swimming. IMO, cartridges are the hardest type of filter to use and sand the easiest.

Ryan,
Keep the DE Filter bro! The reason the pressure keeps rising is because that 5 micron filtering ability is getting bogged down with that cloud of dead algea in the water. Just clean the filtering elements the best you can and then fire it up. Make sure your adding the DE through the skimmer and not directly into the DE filter before turning it on. Then wait for the pressure rise and repeat. Spend all day Saturday and by the end of it you should have a clean pool.

So I'm going to need to keep opening up the filter and hosing them off or just backwashing? Let me see if I have backwashing right. My filter has three in/outs. One has the output from the pump going to it, the other outputs to the pool and the third has a valve on it which I can open to drain it. Is just opening up this third valve and draining it "backwashing"? From what I have read it seems there is more to backwashing than just draining.

The time I opened it up and it was all green, prior to opening it I drained it and the water was all cloudy/green but now if I just let it drain a bit (for like 10 seconds) the water stays pretty clear.

thanks

Yes that is your backwash valve and when you get a pressure rise of 5-8 lbs then you want to backwash the filter until the water runs clear. Basically you are reversing the flow and sending all the gunk that is caked on your grids out in the yard. Once the water runs clear shut down the equipment again, set the valve back to filter, start up the equipment again and then add like 75%-80% of the required DE in the skimmer with filter/pump running. Check that the pressure returned to normal and you are all set.
** When it is REAL nasty you may have to open it up and actually clean the filter elements but if the pressure drops to normal and does NOT immediately rise back up you should be fine with backwashing.

How do I know what "normal" pressure is? So far in my experience it's either been REALLY low (like non existent) or it's around 20psi. I know the max psi of the filter is 50. If my filter elements were messed up (damaged) how would I know?

thanks

If you had damaged filter fingers stuff would be coming out the returns back into the pool. If that is happening you have a problem with the filter. I think some people here run a pressure around 20psi, my norm is 11psi not that it matters. Without running the pool with a clean filter and clean pool it might be tough to know what the "normal" pressure should be. Is there THAT much junk in the water? Hang in there and keep the Chlorine level up in shock territory.

Pottstown huh? We're practically neighbors!

Last night I backwashed once and then put 4lbs of DE in (it says my filter requires 5lb so I figured 4 was good after a backwash?). Of course something else went wrong. The replacement hose I used started collapsing on itself from the pressure! How annoying. I used braided PVC (I think that what it's called) which I saw on some pumps at the pool store. So I have to replace that now. arhg

The water doesn't seem THAT dirty to me but it is pretty cloudy. It's blueish though not green. The chlorine level is another problem, so far I've put several pounds of extra strenght shock in and the Chlorine still shows as nonexistant when you test the water.

Yep I'm actually in North Coventry (which is chester co) but yeah I know Downingtown pretty well (grew up in Chester Springs).

You want to backwash until the water is very clear. I actually backwashed last night too, took about 8 mins before the water ran clear. I grew up in Paoli and recently moved out to Downingtown. I work with a half a dozen people who live in Pottstown, Douglasville, etc.

** That cloud is probably all the dead algea cells floating around. Keep up the good work!**

Quote:

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The chlorine level is another problem, so far I've put several pounds of extra strenght shock in and the Chlorine still shows as nonexistant when you test the water.

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Ryan,

I watched this thread get side tracked into filter questions when your issue is almost surely chlorine. You must continually put shock levels of chlorine in your pool to get it clear.

If your chlorine diappears, it's because you are killing algae in your pool. The answer is simple....you need more chlorine.

Dave,
I need to get the other levels correct in the water for the chlorine to work though right? I've got the pH and alkalinity right now but the cyanuric acid is very low. I need to get that up first right or should I just start putting a ton of chlorine in?

Back to the filter, I hooked up the vacuum this weekend and it seemed to be working and all but then I noticed little bits of leaves were coming back into the pool. Also when I put DE into the skimmer it seems a good amount of it comes into the water. Could my filter elements be messed up?

thanks
Ryan

Ryan,

I have sand, not DE, so cannot comment accurately on the filter. That said, NO filter should be putting ANYTHING visible in your pool....you should only see clear water returning. Other will advise on how to inspect/correct your filter problem but you do have a problem.

Secondly, apply your Cl dosage at dusk, when the Sun is off the pool. It will be very effective against organics when there is no Sun to kill it. With no CYA, you should bring your Cl level up to 10-12ppm at dusk and then test the next morning. Any drop in Cl during the night will indicate that you're still fighting algae. (don't be surprised if most of it is gone). Repeat that procedure each evening until your pool is clear.

Are you holding off CYA for a reason?

Since you have not posted test numbers, I assume you do not have a test kit. That's essential for getting and keeping your pool sparkling.

I did put a bucket of stabalizer in Sunday night and Monday morning. I tested the water tues and the CYA was still low. I've been getting my water tested at the pool store for about 2 weeks now and only the last time did they tell me I needed stabalizer. I'm going back to the store tonight or tomorrow to get more shock and have it tested again. "shock" is what I should put in right? And pretty much do a crap load? I can't overdo it right?

thanks
Ryan

Ryan,
I previously had some of the problems you describe. I had to resort to using a Floccing agent to get the dead algae/particles to cling to each other and fall to the bottom, making it easy to vacuum them out of the pool. One year, the water was so bad (we had a tree overhead and winter cover sprung a leak), the water looked as thick as playdough! I shocked constantly, and used a gallon of algaecide by the time i was done. The process took about a week. From totally green, pasty-looking to cloudy to finally clear. What i found out that year was it was best to vacuum to clumps off the bottom and out of the pool rather than recycling the water. I eventually needed about 3-4 more inches of water, but it was the Floc that worked for me. I then kept a bottle of Floc on hand.

Sorry to just jump in here but I've followed this thread and I'm not clear why none of the more experienced here haven't addressed what I see as a pressing problem, that the filter was run for 'hours' without DE. This to me is a serious issue (tho not fatal).

For backgound I run a Hayward EC-65 DE with a 3/4 hp SuperPump (and am very satisfied with it).

If this were me, the first thing I would do is open it up and thoroughly clean, and then inspect the filter fabric. I don't think the warning to not run without DE is the risk of damage so much as that you will clog up the fabric with gunk that won't easliy backwash out. That fabric is supposed to provide the foundation of your DE coating, which will shed easily when backwashed, taking with it all the entrapped particulate. It's not meant to be the filter medium.

That said, I think it would help if you posted the make and model of the filter so we could help you do this. IMHO, I don't think you're going to get optimum filtering/flowrate from it until you do, not to mention finding out why the thing is passing debris back to the pool. You'll also get a good understanding of how a DE filter works. In the case of the Hayward it's a very easy, straightforward process (tho a bit tedious with it's 15 nuts and bolts, God bless my B&D power screwdriver!).

ChuckD

Hey Chuck,
Ya know to me the running the filter without DE always seemed like a big issue since what I've read had warned against doing it for more than a couple of mins.

BUT this is a non issue now as I said screw it and bought myself a brand new Hayward pump and sand filter. I can now see the bottom of my pool, woohoo! Still have some dirt/leaves in the bottom but hey I can at least see it now. All the rain we've had was actually good for me as I had to backwash so much the extra water was needed. Maybe I could of spent more time futzing with my filter but in the long run DE seemed like a pain in the ass anyway so I'm pretty happy with my purchase.

thanks
Ryan