Re: Getting the hang of BBB
CC is produced as FC is consumed killing something in your water. With a CC of 2 it is almost guaranteed that you have some level of algae. You need to bring your water to "shock" level and keep it there consistently until you are measuring 0.5 or 0.0 CC. You'll know you've killed off the algae when you can go from sundown one day to before sunup the next without losing more than 1ppm FC.
According to "the chart" you need 15-30 FC for shocking a pool with a CYA of 40. In a 23,000 gallon pool that's at least 6 gallons or 8.1 (96 oz) jugs of 6% "ultra" bleach to reach 15ppm FC.
It's important that you test your FC level and add chlorine often to maintain that 15ppm. 2-3 times a day if you can do it. Usually I go a good bit beyond the minimum for shock (I'd go to 20ish) but with a vinyl liner you can bleach the liner and end up causing it to lighten.
As for the dippers of powder. If the sample turns pink with one dipper you can stop adding DPD at one scoop. If not, add the second. I would recommend always using the 10ml sample size. It uses less reagents and .2 precision is not useful at all compared to .5 precision.
Do not add any more CYA or adjust anything else until you've completed the shock process. Some of the tests can be affected by high chlorine so you can't trust the other test results until you're done.
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
Kel is right. How are things going?
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
Well....I know this is a process:/ I guess you would say that I am opening after the winter...we did not put a cover over or officially close over the winter, but didn't add anything over the winter. The water was clear and we kept all of the leaves etc. out. It looked pretty good until I started adding chlorine.
Yesterday early am the FC was 2.5 and the CC was 2.5. I added the 6 gallons of 8.25% bleach and retested about 5 hours later. The FC was 7 and the CC was 1.5. At 7:30 PM the FC was 5 and the CC was 3.5 and PH was at 7 (I know that the shock affects PH so I left it alone for now) though the water looked AWFUL. It is brown looking in the deep end. Is that Metal? I know since I have been adding chlorine trying to get it higher the main drain has been gradually staining as well as the steps. Back to chemistry...This morning I tested and the FC was at 7 (first It turned clear at 5 drops but turned back to slight pink so I added 2 more drops until it stayed clear. Do you make sure it stays clear before proceeding?) The CC was 4 (another question about the cc step. When I am using the 10 ml sample how many drops of R0003 do you add. It seems like 5 would be too many with a 10 ml sample, but it doesn't say different) I will test again tonight and see how things look. Any clarity on the testing procedure would be greatly appreciated.
I guess I won't add anything today and see where it is tonight. Then add Chlorine and recheck in the AM to see if it lost any over night. What makes it not have or loose the FC that does the work? I do not see any signs of algae. The water is still very cold too. How should I address the metal...Get the metal out and put it in the water? The PH is low enough to add it, but it will come back when I add chlorine. REALLY FRUSTRATED.
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fiveattripp
Well....I know this is a process:/ I guess you would say that I am opening after the winter...we did not put a cover over or officially close over the winter, but didn't add anything over the winter. The water was clear and we kept all of the leaves etc. out. It looked pretty good until I started adding chlorine.
Yesterday early am the FC was 2.5 and the CC was 2.5. I added the 6 gallons of 8.25% bleach and retested about 5 hours later. The FC was 7 and the CC was 1.5. At 7:30 PM the FC was 5 and the CC was 3.5 and PH was at 7 (I know that the shock affects PH so I left it alone for now) though the water looked AWFUL. It is brown looking in the deep end. Is that Metal? I know since I have been adding chlorine trying to get it higher the main drain has been gradually staining as well as the steps. Back to chemistry...This morning I tested and the FC was at 7 (first It turned clear at 5 drops but turned back to slight pink so I added 2 more drops until it stayed clear. Do you make sure it stays clear before proceeding?) The CC was 4 (another question about the cc step. When I am using the 10 ml sample how many drops of R0003 do you add. It seems like 5 would be too many with a 10 ml sample, but it doesn't say different) I will test again tonight and see how things look. Any clarity on the testing procedure would be greatly appreciated.
I guess I won't add anything today and see where it is tonight. Then add Chlorine and recheck in the AM to see if it lost any over night. What makes it not have or loose the FC that does the work? I do not see any signs of algae. The water is still very cold too. How should I address the metal...Get the metal out and put it in the water? The PH is low enough to add it, but it will come back when I add chlorine. REALLY FRUSTRATED.
Do you own a Speedstir? It makes doing the tests A LOT easier.
Adding one scoop or two doesn't matter. The point of adding the powder is to add enough of it so that the solution is saturated with the indicator dye (DPD) so it can react with all of the free chlorine in the water. Adding too little powder is way worse than adding too much. At normal FC levels, one scoop is often sufficient. At shock levels, typically two scoops is absolutely necessary to ensure full reaction with all the chlorine.
As for the color changing back to pink from clear, that typically happens when you add drops too slowly. Your reagent drop rate should be about 1 drop per second and you should count drops to the point where the solution goes clear the first time. If it goes back slightly pink after you stop adding drops, you don't count that. Then you add the R-0003 reagent to measure the CC's. For measuring CC's you use 5 drops of the FAS solution no matter if its a 10mL or 25mL sample. This should all be done in fairly short order. This is why I own a SpeedStir, it helps out immensely.
As for brown stains and metals, it depends. What is your fill water, well or municipal? Do you have high iron content where you are? Shock levels of chlorine can cause iron to form brown ferric chloride which stains. But you have to kill the algae so getting metal stains out is secondary in importance. Getting your water clean is much more important at this point.
Losing FC is caused by killing algae, oxidizing organic compounds (from all the dead algae), oxidizing gunk in your filter and, too a lesser extent when CYA is present, sunlight. This is why you do the overnight loss test with all pumps running and no salt water chlorine generator running. Since your CC's are still high I would say that your water is full of organics which the chlorine is oxidizing. That is the slowest part of the shock process, ie, chlorine reacting with organics. So, if you think you're done with the dead algae, vacuum and clean the pool as much as possible and then consider giving your filter a good clean in order to wash out all the gunk that may be in there. The cleaner you can make the pool and pool equipment, the faster the process will be.
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
I don't really understand everything you have said, but a few things:
Yes, 5 drops of R0003,
The returning pink color probably indicates that you are adding the drops too slowly. About 1 drop/sec.
Kelemvor suggested you get your FC up to shock level, perhaps around 20ppm. That means getting it there and KEEPING it there. e.g. When you tested "5 hours later" and it was 7, you needed to bring FC back up to 20. Please let us know if you need more specific instructions on how to do this.
Try putting a vitamin C tablet on the steps and see if it has any effect on the brown stain.
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
I do not have a speedstir. Thank You...I am attaching a link to the water photos...maybe it is the chlorine working...killing whatever is in the water and not so much of the iron. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/74hu4ykt9...JS3wehpMa?dl=0 I know that we have had metal problems in the past and some of it might be metal. We fill with municipal and we have had quite a bit of rain lately. I will recheck tonight and again in the morning. I will also try to be very careful in how I test with the drops to make sure I am doing it correct. Thanks and will post again in the morning.
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fiveattripp
I do not have a speedstir. Thank You...I am attaching a link to the water photos...maybe it is the chlorine working...killing whatever is in the water and not so much of the iron.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/74hu4ykt9...JS3wehpMa?dl=0 I know that we have had metal problems in the past and some of it might be metal. We fill with municipal and we have had quite a bit of rain lately. I will recheck tonight and again in the morning. I will also try to be very careful in how I test with the drops to make sure I am doing it correct. Thanks and will post again in the morning.
I can't see the photos. Best to use a photosharing service like Photobucket or Picasa.
Usually with municipal water you can look up water quality reports online to see if they detect any iron or other metals. Most municipal supplies are pretty good at keeping the metals out. Rain water is actually the best as it is nothing but pure water (no metals, no calcium, low TA, neutral-to-slightly acidic pH) so rain water is not your problem.
If you do consider the SpeedStir (I highly recommend it), you might also get a SamplerSizer as well. I have both and I can do the full suite of K-2006 tests in less than 15mins.
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
Our pool water is So BEAUTIFUL now!!! It has been quite a journey to get it there, but it looks better than it has in quite some time. I began adding bleach 6 gallons at a time...based on the pool calculator. Now about 42 gallons later the water is so pretty and clear. Even though there was no real sign of algae it must have been really bad. I have adjusted the PH back to 7.6 and the ALK stayed at 100. The CYA is at 40. I must say after all of this practice using the Taylor drop test kit, I think I have the hang of it now. I can imagine I saved quite a bit of money using this method. Thank you for all of the help and direction.
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fiveattripp
Our pool water is So BEAUTIFUL now!!! It has been quite a journey to get it there, but it looks better than it has in quite some time. I began adding bleach 6 gallons at a time...based on the pool calculator. Now about 42 gallons later the water is so pretty and clear. Even though there was no real sign of algae it must have been really bad. I have adjusted the PH back to 7.6 and the ALK stayed at 100. The CYA is at 40. I must say after all of this practice using the Taylor drop test kit, I think I have the hang of it now. I can imagine I saved quite a bit of money using this method. Thank you for all of the help and direction.
I too am very thankful that I discovered this method of pool care. Otherwise, we'd be like all of our friends with pools - spending ~$1,200 per year on useless pool maintenance "professionals" and cursing the day we bought a home with a pool rather than enjoying its benefits.
The real secret to BBB is really no secret at all. In fact, the "trick" is just a common sense life lesson that applies to everyday life - the key to a sparkly & beautiful pool is nothing more than regular, accurate water testing and regularly scheduled preventative maintenance. Spotting signs of a problem BEFORE it becomes a full-on disaster makes preventing and fixing it much easier than trying to put the pieces back together after it has blown up in your face. This is as true about pools as it is about cars, relationships and personal health (or anything else you care about). The more little things you do each day to maintain and improve something, the less likely it is to totally fail on you.
So BBB for us pool owners means a couple of things -
1. Owning and learning to use a good test kit;
2. Following a regular test schedule;
3. Daily spot checks;
4. Learning how all the parameters of water chemistry interact with one another;
5. Adding nothing to your pool that it does not absolutely need and only adding those chemicals that are proven to effectively resolve a problem;
6. Asking for help from like-minded fellow BBB'ers who have been down the road before;
Anyone who follows those simple principles and who is willing to add a little elbow grease can have a sparkly pool that costs hundreds of dollars less to operate every year than what the pool "professionals" and pool stores will try to sell you on.
Re: Getting the hang of BBB
Congratulations! Did you test for FC loss from sunset to sunrise yet? I wouldn't bring FC levels down until you pass the overnight test once (and better yet, twice!)
What is your CC?
