Need advice on cloudy Intex Pool . . . but I don't want a K2006

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this and could use some advice!
We got an 18ft Intex Easy Set pool this year. I know that these are not the greatest as far as filters go (I just have the standard that came with it) but I wanted to see how much use we got out of a pool before investing money in a permanent pool.
After being away for 2 weeks we came home Saturday and removed the solar cover. The water was guacamole green. We shocked it. The next day it was still green and I took the water to Leslie's to have it tested. He said the chlorine was too high to read and gave me no other advice except vacuum it, wait a day or 2 and bring it back. I vacuumed and when I did it turned a more solid green ( the particles seemed to delete into the water) The next day I took another sample back. He said everything was in line except my water was registering hard. I told him it was still green and he kind of shrugged and said the intex pools don't have great filters. I had read another thread and someone with an intex and a similar issue was told to shock it a few day in a row. I was surprised this guy didn't suggest to do that. So I went to Namco a half mile down the road and that woman said to put an algaecide in, wait a few hours and shock it again. Then if it didn't clear to repeat that process and add a clarifier. After the algaecide and shock it turned light blue but still cloudy, I can barely see the bottom. I never added the water hardener because the Namco woman said all hard water will do is make my skin feel a little dry. I don't have hard water in general so if that doesn't effect my cloudiness I'd just as soon return it to the store.
I've had the filter running non-stop and have rinsed and swapped it at least twice a day. I've added clarifier twice and it's not changed the fogginess. There doesn't seem to be any residue on the bottom of the pool.
I haven't brought the water back in to be tested since I re-shocked it (twice)
I'd love your advice on what I should do. The man at Leslie's said adding even a small amount of DE could ruin my pump.
Thanks in advance
Ellen

Without having some numbers, it is hard to give advice. We typically don't trust pool store numbers or advice. And, reading the advice they have given you, explains why.

We think everyone should have a good drops-based kit. The test kit that we think is by far the best is the Taylor K2006 or 2006C (better buy). Not available locally but you can get it through this link that takes you to Amazon: http://pool9.net/tk/

But, in the meantime, go to Walmart and see if they have the HTH 6-Way drops-based kit (no test strips!) and get that. If they don't, get an OTO/Phenol Red kit (yellow and red drops) instead. Use it to test and then post your numbers. Also while you are at WallyWorld, get several jugs of their generic 8.25% bleach, a couple of boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle) and a gallon of distilled water.

Test your water and post your numbers.

Welcome to the Pool Forum!

Repost with requested info and then someone here can try and help you.

(Until you registration is completed, you won't be able to see the rest of the forum while you are logged in. So, copy that link and then paste it into a browser window after you log out.)

Okay, here's my info after testing:
18ft Intex Easy Set (5400 gallons)
Chorine 5 Br 10 - this was very yellow. I've shocked it twice this week, the last time being yesterday at about 4pm
Ph - 7.5
Alk - 100 ppm
Cyanuric Acid - 50 ppm
Hardness - the test water didn't turn dark red, only pink, so the titrate drops didn't get deep blue or change after about 6-10 drops, so I'm guessing it is somewhere between 70-100 ppm
The water is light blue and very cloudy. I can barely see the bottom of the pool. This is a change from when we got back from vacation and it was guacamole green. It's been shocked twice and an algaecide was added. Nothing in the last 24 hours.

Thanks
Ellen

Hi, Ellen. Sorry nobody got back to you quickly after your last post.

How is it looking now? It has been a couple of days, so can you give us new chlorine and pH numbers? No need to test the other things right now. If your chlorine is really high, use the color chart here to try and interpret the level:> http://pool9.net/oto-chart/

Don't add any more algaecide. Those don't usually help and can often cause issues. In fact, for now don't add anything else to the pool other than chlorine and preferably bleach instead of other forms of chlorine. What kind of shock have you been using? Give ingredients.

(You can ignore the bromine column on the tester.)

Thanks for the response.
Today the chlorine is 5
PH is 7.5
I used Blue Shield liquid shock a few days ago: sodium hypochlorite 12.5%, inert ingredients 87.5%
The water is SLOWLY getting clearer. I can see the bottom and there is very little debris.
I've been running it non-stop and actually took some advice yesterday and put a knee-high around the crappy typeA cartridge filter. That seems to have sped things up a little.
Do I need to do anything about the hardness of the water? Does that effect anything?

Thanks

5 is the highest that the kit can read. Are you sure it is 5 or is it darker yellow? Did you look at the link I posted above with the color chart?

To try and clear the pool, you need to maintaining chlorine levels around 15ppm. Does the Blue Shield Liquid chlorine mention anything else on the ingredients? If not, it is probably fine to use.

In your pool, each cup of the 12.5% sodium hypo will add about 1.5ppm and each quart will add just under 6ppm. Use that as a reference to help you figure out how much to add each time you test to get the chlorine back up to 15ppm. However ---- it may be that it is not actually 12.5%. Chlorine degrades quickly. Who knows how fresh that is. That is one reason we like Walmart's generic bleach. It is stored in an air-conditioned store and the turnover of the product is quick. I just left my Walmart a few minutes ago and bought several jugs myself! ;)

You really should think about order the K2006 kit I mentioned above. It can measure chlorine levels higher than 5ppm.

Another chart you should look at explains the connection between CYA and chlorine:> http://pool9.net/cl-cya/ Not understanding this connection is one of the main reasons that people get algae in their pool.

Basically, you want to keep your chlorine high until you can go from sundown one evening to within an hour of sunrise the next morning without losing more than 1ppm of chlorine and the water is clear.

Don't worry about the hardness right now. Also, when you test, you don't need to retest the CYA anymore unless you use a product that has it in it like dichlor or trichlor. And, you shouldn't use either of those. Your CYA is perfect right at 50.

One more tip for now, the pH results will be invalid with your kit when the chlorine is over 5ppm. (Over 10ppm with the Taylor K2006 kit.) So, if you have high chlorine, dilute your water sample before testing pH. Take one part pool water and mix it with an equal part of distilled water. Then, run the pH test with that as normal.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you have further questions.

(Remember to copy those links and then log out before you will be able to see them.)

I did the chlorine again. I'd say it's higher than 10. It's a mustard color. I would think this would seem about right given that I'd shocked it 3 days ago?
The link you gave me is hard to decipher holding it to a computer screen but I'd say it's between 9 and 13.
I also mixed the pool water with distilled and did the ph again and this read 7.2
The liquid shock just says sodium hypochlorite 12.5 and inert ing 87.5. I have more of that and I also do have walmart bleach. With those numbers should I add more?
It's raining today so I can't tell if it is clearer than this morning.
Having spent $25 on the HTH Drop kit, I can't justify spending at least another $50 on the one you like. If I end up going with a permanent pool in the future I'd invest in it, but right now I'm at the point where I've spent so much time on this Intex pool I'd rather take it down than throw much more money at it.

Thanks and let me know if I should add anything!

To clear the pool, you need to keep it at shock level which with a CYA reading of 50 would be 15ppm. So, yes, you need to add more. It's ok to use up the 12.5% first. I gave you reference amounts in the previous post so you can figure out doses to add whenever you test to get back to 15ppm.

Another and less expensive option instead of the full K2006 kit is to just buy the add-on kit called the K1515. That would give you the test that your kit is missing which allows you to be able to measure chlorine levels past 5. It is also available through that same link posted above. It will make it a whole lot easier to manage your pool if you can test levels more accurately.

Keep an eye on your pH. You are ok at 7.2 but if it goes any lower, you should bump it up a little by using some of the Borax. Add about a half a cup at a time and then several hours later, retest and redose until you get it where you want it. Anywhere between 7-8 is ok with the mid 7s usually best for most pools.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EllenF

Having spent $25 on the HTH Drop kit, I can't justify spending at least another $50 on the one you like. If I end up going with a permanent pool in the future I'd invest in it, but right now I'm at the point where I've spent so much time on this Intex pool I'd rather take it down than throw much more money at it.

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Lots of people reach this point in their thinking, without recognizing the error most are making. The problem is, you will almost certainly continue to 'throw money' at your pool, without a K2006. I don't want to overstate this; having a K2006 will NOT fix your pool. Rather it will make it POSSIBLE for you to fix your pool.

If you are serious about draining the pool . . . that is certainly the cheapest option. Otherwise, you need accurate testing.

There's another point to consider. As more and more PF users have inexpensive pools, we're running into resistance from those users to the idea of buying an 'expensive' kit. Instead -- without really thinking about it -- they end up asking us to continue to spend time with them GUESSING at the best thing to do with their pool. They often combine these actions with intermittent trips to the pool store, where they get 'free' water tests that have ALWAYS been designed to sell more chemicals. The result is that their pool situation becomes more and more confused and complex, as they partially follow our directions, but mix in the occasional doses of over-priced pool store voodoo chemicals that will "fix everything" (NOT!).

I'm going to have to talk to my moderators and the Support Team, but I think it's time to tell small pool owners that it's unfair to us, and to other forum users, to monopolize our time this way. Instead, I think it may be time to offer 3 options:

1. Get a K2006 + adequate filtration AND stop using pool store 'free' testing, or dumping in pool store 'goop'

OR

2. Drain and refill, and then follow the Super Simple Recipe (http://pool9.net/ssr/ which does not require the K2006.

OR

3. Actually drain and abandon your pool.

Anything else simply wastes your money, and both your time, and ours.

Best wishes.

Wow, Ben, what a warm welcome to the pool world you've given me.
I'm new to all this and came here for some advice, which Watermom gave me. I was and am appreciative of her.
How exactly did I waste your time when you didn't respond to any of my posts? Watermom did a great job educating me on the basics, but since I'm just a small resistant little pool owner I won't bother you all any more.

Your choice, of course.

I handled it badly, and should have checked with my mods, etc first.

I can certainly see how my response came across as rude -- I have tendency to 'think out loud' at times, and that's what I was doing. But the simple fact remains that, if you have problems with a small pool, the 3 options I gave you are really the ones you have -- not because I'm being mean or rude, but just because those are the facts.

Test it accurately -- and then fix it -OR- drain and refill it and then use the SSR (which avoids some of the need to test -OR- give it up.

Of course, there's a 4th option the pool chemicals companies hope you'll take, and that's to keep buying useless pool chemicals OR using bad test methods (strips or pool dealers) so they can keep selling you stuff, as the problems continue.

Sorry I didn't say it better. Good luck.

Ellen, if you are able to buy the K1515 kit I mentioned above, that will give you the ability to test accurately and we will be able to help you clear your pool up. Let us know.

My first pool was an Intex donut, 15' diameter, 15 years ago we used for three years.
I went thru many of the same problems you did...wasting money on "How To Tame The Pool Monster" and other useless, expensive industry advice. I put in the wrong chemicals, the wrong algaecide, but nothing worked.

Then, in the 2nd season, I found the Pool Forum. I was one of the first members to have an Intex anything, and Ben knew little about it and was highly skeptical I'd be able to make it work with the as-yet-unamed BBB system in a 3500 gallon fish bowl with a lousy undersized cartridge filter. But I bought the equivalent of the K-2006, and it was the best investment I ever made! My water troubles with the Intex were over, and after the 3rd season I built my current pool and managing it was easy.

But here is the thing: We can only give you our best advice. You can take it or not take it, because it is your pool, not ours. We hope you will take it because most of our members are able to enjoy their pools with minimum effort and expense because our advice is the simplest, most logical, and effective you can get.

Thank you all. I DO understand that you can only give me your advice and can't read my total chlorine without the K2006. I never asked you to find a way around it or guess. What I just didn't appreciate was a moderator coming down hard on me (or changing the name of the thread). This pool has been a good intro to the whole process. I especially never knew that places like Leslie's were like when I'd take my car to Jiffy Lube for an oil change and they'd try to flush my radiator for $300.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarlD

My first pool was an Intex donut, 15' diameter, 15 years ago we used for three years.
I went thru many of the same problems you did...wasting money on "How To Tame The Pool Monster" and other useless, expensive industry advice. I put in the wrong chemicals, the wrong algaecide, but nothing worked.

Then, in the 2nd season, I found the Pool Forum. I was one of the first members to have an Intex anything, and Ben knew little about it and was highly skeptical I'd be able to make it work with the as-yet-unamed BBB system in a 3500 gallon fish bowl with a lousy undersized cartridge filter. But I bought the equivalent of the K-2006, and it was the best investment I ever made! My water troubles with the Intex were over, and after the 3rd season I built my current pool and managing it was easy.

But here is the thing: We can only give you our best advice. You can take it or not take it, because it is your pool, not ours. We hope you will take it because most of our members are able to enjoy their pools with minimum effort and expense because our advice is the simplest, most logical, and effective you can get.

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+1!

I'm going to agree with CarlD too. I have an Intex. I'm here to tell you, it takes a LONG time to filter out remnants of an algae infestation, weeks, AND, that's IF you REPLACE the filter every time it stops up (the filters from walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc will not stand up to being cleaned). I'll also tell you that the advice I got here was once the algae is dead and the pool is clear enough to see the bottom, it's ok to go swimming. We all hope you get to enjoy your pool for lots of years. I'll also say, we had a constant fight on our hands til we got the K2006 kit and were able to accurately test the chlorine levels. That kit has saved us BUNCHES of money in chemicals we didn't need to buy.

Good luck and ENJOY your pool!

Pappy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EllenF

I especially never knew that places like Leslie's were like when I'd take my car to Jiffy Lube for an oil change and they'd try to flush my radiator for $300.

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Yup, you got it! Perfect analogy. :$:

Purchasing the K2006 will be by far the most cost-effective decision you will EVER make for your pool and your peace of mind. I promise.

Good luck!

If you already have the HTH 6-way drop kit and really have to squeeze bucks, the K-1515 FAS-DPD add-on test for $19. will give you the same essential capability as the K-2006. The key tests of FC, CC, pH, CYA, plus TA and CH are how we address 99% of the problems people face here.

When I had my Intex, I used their filters which could be hosed down several times before being discarded. There were no others that fit at the time. I made my own vacuum-to-filter by forcing a 3/4" PVC double-female connector into the end of an 18' length of 1 1/4" vacuum hose and attaching to a vacuum head that could take both a 1.5 and 1 1/4" hose. I plugged it into the drain where it fit perfectly, and even with the weak pump, was able to fully vacuum it.

These days, I swear by the Pool Blaster, but they are a little pricey.

Thanks. I did read on one of the links here that the Unicel filter was a better option so I've had one of those in for a couple of days. The water looks great the past 2 days. And once it cleared there was no visible residue on the bottom, just a few leaves that I couldn't see before.
I'm pretty much set. It was a week straight of shocking and rinsing that stupid paper filter, but it did work.
All my numbers are in line (chlorine is still a bit high but I expected that).
One last question: Can anyone supply a link to using the Walmart Bleach for every day maintenance instead of the chlorine tablets? Unless of course you think that's a bad idea.
I can't remember if I saw a post on here of someone maintaining their pool with 2 cups every night. I'd love to learn that method if it works.
Thanks!

You can most certainly just use plain, unscented bleach as your source for chlorine. Many of us do -- me included. But, there is more to it than just adding a couple of cups per night.

Needed chlorine levels are based on your CYA reading. With a CYA of 50 that you reported above, you need to keep your chlorine between 3-6ppm ALL the time. So, you test your pool each evening to get the chlorine reading and then add however much bleach you need to get your chlorine level back up to around 6ppm. For reference, in your pool each cup of 8.25% bleach should add around 0.7ppm of chlorine and each quart would add around 3ppm.

More info about the CYA and chlorine connection can be found here:> http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

Hope this helps.

Got it. Thanks everyone so much!
I've actually been surfing around the site in anticipation of getting a permanent above ground at some point. What a great resource you all are. I'll be sure to do a lot of homework before buying and won't be taken for a ride (again - I never knew the pool stores will commonly try to sell you a bigger filter system than you need).

It's hot and humid here in RI today and the kids can finally get back in the pool!

Take care and thanks again - hopefully I can take it from here!

Ellen

You are welcome. If you need us again, we'll be here! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EllenF

I never knew the pool stores will commonly try to sell you a bigger filter system than you need.

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Conventional AG pool sales typically include a bigger pump than you need -- not a bigger filter. Normally, the pump is too big, and the filter is too small.

Soft-side (Intex, etc) pool systems (pump + filter combo) are better matched . . . they are BOTH too small. That's why it's so hard to clean up a soft-side pool once it is cloudy.