Can't get rid of dead algae

Hello! We have a 28ft above ground pool not a year old yet and we are having a bout with dead algae. We didn't cover it over the winter and got some green algae in it. Got that killed and we have vacuumed this pool about 7 times. We have done the floc out. All of our test strips are perfect. We went to the pool store this weekend and the guy sold us some cellulose fiber to make the particles bigger so the vacuum would pick it up. Now the pool is cloudy and he sold us copper algaecide. I'm so frustrated. Please any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Stay out of that pool store!

You don't want copper in your pool. Most people think it is chlorine that stains things and turns blonde hair green but.... it is copper!

We'll need some additional info to be able to help.

-- What size pump and what kind and size of filter?
-- Exactly what all have you added to the pool, meaning ingredients and not just product names like 'shock.'

We are going to need some good numbers taken with a drops-based kit. Guess-strips .... I mean test strips won't do it. The test kit that we think is by far the best is the Taylor K2006 or 2006C (better buy). Not available locally but you can get it through this link that takes you to Amazon: http://pool9.net/tk/

But, in the meantime, go to Walmart and see if they have the HTH 6-Way drops-based kit (no test strips!) and get that. If they don't, get an OTO/Phenol Red kit (yellow and red drops) instead. Use it to test and then post your numbers. Also while you are at WallyWorld, get several jugs of their generic 8.25% bleach and a couple of boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax (laundry aisle).

For now, don't add any more chemicals to your pool other than bleach to keep the chlorine up and Borax if your pH is low. Nothing else.

Repost with requested info and then someone here can try and help you.

Welcome to the Pool Forum!

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I replied to this yesterday but don't see it on here :(

Maybe you typed it and forgot to hit submit. We've all done that a time or two! ;) At any rate, there are no other posts from you. I just checked in the moderation queue and the one right above is the only one that was in there.

Lol I will post my readings when I get home but here's my story.
3 weeks ago I went into pool store with a crystal clear pool. My only problem was what I'm thinking is dead algae on bottom of pool. They tested pool and said calcium was low. Bought and put in 25lbs of calcium. Pool guy also suggested and we bought this "pro magic phos free" system. One bottle to start up and then a maintenance bottle which you add 2 1/2 capfuls every week. Supposed to be guaranteed algae free or they GIVE you the chemicals to clear your pool. We vacuumed pool several times to waste. 2 weeks ago we went back to pool store bc we had a yellowish tint on bottom of pool and on steps (we never got dead algae out, it will not vacuum up) but water was still crystal clear. He GAVE us a bottle of copper algaecide bc we were on this phos free program and sold us a bag of cellulose fiber to put in our sand pump to help trap the small particles. Our pool went from crystal clear to you cannot see the bottom at all and we still have yellow on our steps and bottom of our pool. We did add 6oz of copper algaecide in the pool which I regret now after reading. After reading skme forums I added 4lbs of shock since Sunday. Pool is starting to clear but we still have the dirty look with yellow tint on bottom and steps.
The pool is a 28x52 round vinyl pool ag
Pump is sand filter sparco with a optiflo and it's the larger pump than what normally comes with the 24ft pools. I will post my chemical readings as soon as I get home. I did go and buy a drop test kit and did that last night and iffy number don't make sense I apologize. I am very very new to this. Thank you so very much

Ok my readings are
Clorine 10
TC 10
BR. 6 (it said to x's this by 2 this is only one so x's two is 12)
PH 8.0
Total alk. 80
Calcium hardness 230
CYA. 90

Is there anyway I can send a picture to show you how the pool looks and show you the color or the stuff on the step and on the bottom of the pool?

You can use Flickr, Picasa, Photobucket, etc. to post pics.

I assume your readings are from the HTH 6-Way kit. With chlorine over 5ppm, that kit cannot give you an accurate pH reading. Take 1/4 cup of pool water and mix it with 1/4 cup of distilled water. Then, run the pH test and report the reading.

Don't use any more products in your pool at this point other than bleach. In most cases, and your pool is a prime example, all the stuff the pool store wants to sell you just makes the problem worse.

You are going to need to run higher chlorine than 5ppm because of that CYA reading of 90. Take a look at this chart that shows the connection between CYA and chlorine. http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

Therefore, you are going to need a kit that can measure those higher chlorine readings. If I am right that you have the HTH 6-Way kit, then you can buy the Taylor K1515 add on kit that will give the test that can do that. Having that test in conjunction with the 6-Way kit in essence gives you the Taylor K2006 kit that we typically recommend. You can find the K1515 through this link: http://pool9.net/tk/

(Remember to copy the link and then log out and paste in a browser window. Once your registration is completed, you will be able to follow links without logging out first.)

Also, ignore the bromine reading. You have a chlorine pool.

Because of all of the concoctions that you unfortunately have put in your water, I'm going to ask Ben to chime in here on this thread and give his opinion as well. Don't do anything else at this point until Ben gives you his thoughts.

EDIT --- Any idea how big your filter is (how many lbs. of sand) and also how big is your pump (what hp)?

The test kit I got was from Leslie's pool supply and it's a Taylor complete dpd test kit. It came with 14 different drops to test with. I paid $70.00 for it.
The pump is a 1.5 hp pentair optiflo.
The filter is sparco and I can't find the amount of sand in the filter anywhere. I would say 3-5 pounds.
I can't retest the chlorine right now bc I did brush the pool tonight and put 5.5 bottles of Clorox in it. The pressure on the gauge is fine also. I did download flickr but not sure how to get my pictures to you from there.

Does the chlorine test have you match colors of pink to determine the reading with 5ppm being the highest value on the scale? If so, that is the Taylor K2005. It is not quite the same as the K2006 (which can test much higher chlorine levels) but if you order the K1515 I mentioned above, you will have the missing test that you will need. It is an add-on kit so not as expensive.

I'm pretty sure your sand filter doesn't use 3-5 lbs. At least I hope not! ;) Most sand filter have between 100-350 lbs of sand. Is there a model number or something so we could look it up? The reason I am so interested in this is because unfortunately, I'm afraid you have a poorly matched filter and pump. You have a mighty big pump for a 24ft AG pool. In the case of pool pumps, bigger is NOT better. What happens is that when a big pump is paired with a small filter, instead of filtering well, the power of the pump simply forces debris through the sand bed and back into the pool. We see this all the time here on the forum. People think they are getting a good thing when they get a big pump but in reality, it is a problem. (Just to give you a comparison -- I have a 27ft AG pool and have a 1/2 hp pump paired with a 300lb sand filter.) It is much better to have a smaller pump paired with a large filter than the other way around.

This mismatch makes it that much harder to clean up a pool so we'll have to keep our fingers crossed that your combo will get the job done.

If you can't attach a pic, another option (though slower) is to email them to poolforum@gmail.com and include your thread # (24371) in the email so the pictures can get posted in the correct thread.

I have let Ben know that I would like for him to pop in on your thread, so hopefully he'll get to it before too long.

That made me laugh out loud. I told you I was very new at this. The test kit does make us match the color up after we have added the drops to it.
Our pool is a 28ft x 52
The pump is a optiflo 1.5 hp
Sand filter is a sparco hi rate sand filter
Serial#0518004130200m
There's a number at the bottom 49269842
P/n # 272526
Container id is. Site E
Date 1/4/2013
I looked through all of my paperwork and can't find anywhere where it says how many pounds of sand.

Ok. Let me see if I can summarize.

+ You've had a swamp, and, thanks to your pool store, your swamp is somewhat less swampy, but it now contains a chemical hobo soup, including copper. Your CYA = ~80 ppm

+ You've added floc, cellulose fiber, copper algaecide among other things.

+ At one point the pool was clear, but now it's cloudy.

+ You've got stains, of unknown origin and yellowish in color.

Is all that correct?

Assuming it is, here are some next steps:

1. As W-M told you STAY away from that store; they are using you as their personal bank!

2. Keep your chlorine level up.

3. Do a complete set of tests, and then fill out this form:

http://pool9.net/pf-pool-form/

You can see what you've entered, here:

http://pool9.net/pf-hist-chart/

I'm not completely clear on the CURRENT condition of the water in your pool -- is any algae still present?

4. Do NOT add any more clarifier, floc, or algaecides. Some of those products are incompatible with each other, and there's really no way to tell which is which. (Even we don't know, because the makers try to hide exactly what they put in their products.)

5. Use a tape measure or yard stick and measure as best you can the WIDTH or diameter of your sand filter.

As of last night when we brushed it yes there was a yellow algae still in the pool. The only thing I have done to it since Monday is add bleach yesterday and brush it. I will measure the sand filter and do the complete test when I get home. Thank you again for your help. And yes everything you said is right except it isn't really a swamp just a light brownish yellow on the bottom which is now as of yesterday yellow.

Hello. Ok the diameter of the sand filter is 62" with a tape measure. I got home just in time to take the readings on the pool before it rained.

CL 7.5
Total chlorine 7.5
PH 8.0
Total alk 150
Calcium hardness 300
CYA 80
The pool is 90 degrees and the pump is running 24/7. Came home today and I can barely see the bottom of the pool.

I filled out the form with all my info about the pool and where I live but I can't find where to input my test results?

So, an 18" sand filter => 27 GPM max flow rate for optimum filtration.

I looked up the Optiflo pumps -- they are 30 - 80 GPM pumps, which is WAY too much for that filter. I spent some time making up the image below.The original image is the Pentair data for the Optiflo pumps. I've overlaid some data for 18" SD40 and 21" SD60 Sand Dollar filters, which are similar to what you have. I got carried away with the curve, which shows the filters clean, and with a 6 psi (14' head) pressure increase as they get dirty. The pressure loss from the piping and valves is not included.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b...ves%2520sm.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-A...flow%25202.jpg

BUT . . . the curves from the pumps SHOULD cross the curves from the filter, somewhere, and they aren't even close.

What does that mean?

Most likely, instead of your filter having 27 GPM moving through it, it's probably got closer to 50 or 60 GPM! And at that flow rate, the dead algae is simply shoved right through the filter sand. It's the classic OVERSIZED pump, UNDERSIZED filter problem so common with AG pools.

And that problem typically shows up exactly like yours has.

The simplest solution is to install a ball valve between the pump and the filter, that allows you to throttle the flow back. Contrary to what most people think, this will actually REDUCE the amount of electricity your pump consumes.

The best solution is to replace your existing pump with this one:

Hayward SP15922S Power-Flo Matrix Above-Ground Pump 1HP 2-Speed @ Amazon

and then run on low speed except when vacuuming or backwashing.

OK. You can't get a pump immediately, so here are some immediate steps.

1. Do the DE test, to make sure that the sand hasn't been washed out of your pump during backwash. (This happens routinely in the BIG pump - little filter situation.)

2. Repair the filter (add sand?) as needed.

3. Install a ball valve between the pump and filter, and throttle the flow back so the filter shows 12 psi or less when clean.

Is the DE test the same thing as the cellulose fiber? We did that an nothing came back in the pool or no powder came in the little bubble so nothing is passing through the filter. I definitely cannot afford a new pump right now. How do I install the ball valve and is there no way to get this algae out of there without doing this? This is frustrating. I have had the pool less than a year.

Not at all; use DE powder.

The ball valve has to be installed in the piping between your pump and your filter. Without seeing your piping, I can't tell you how to do it.

BUT, once your filter passes the DE test, you can continue to use DE, by adding say 2 cups after each backwash, as a filter aid. A small sand filter makes a tiny DE filter . . . but it will still filter dead algae better than than it will otherwise. But you'll probably have to backwash for 30 seconds or so, every day.

And yes, your problem is both extremely frustrating and very common. I remember many years ago, the first time I tried to clean up dead algae on an AG pool -- I couldn't figure out what was wrong. My experience had been with IG pools which tend to have bigger filters and not so big pumps, and I couldn't understand what was going wrong. I never did solve the problem, and I was very embarrassed about charging that customer for my time. But, 30 years ago, I didn't realize that the pool equipment companies were deliberately misrepresenting their products.

It's a common problem -- just this morning I posted on my Facebook page, a link about common deceptive advertising practices that affect ALL SORTS of industries.

I'm sorry there's nothing more I can do to help you. I *am* happy that we've been able to help a couple of guys, who are getting new pools right now, get BIG filters and little pumps, though. But most people don't come to the forum till AFTER they have problems.