BB Method (Instead of BBB)

So I've been reading a bunch of posts on the site in regards to using Bleach, Borax and Baking soda for pool maintenance. I am loving the idea of this but getting the appropriate amounts of Bleach on a regular basis seems troublesome.

Last year we were using chlorine tablets and they were working great until we went away for 3 days. I guess we forgot to fill the skimmer with a fresh set of tablets and came back to algae. Well, we spent the whole summer battling that problem. At years end we drained the pool to the recommended levels and added a plethora of chemicals based on the pool stores recommended closing techniques.

I've just finished draining the water on the cover and am prepared to lift it off tonight.

What I'd like to know is:

Could I use Borax and Baking Soda to control my PH levels but continue to use the tablet method we are on now? If I do this, do I still need to shock the pool?

The pool shop is pretty close to my house so I can stop in once a week to buy a 2Gallon liquid chlorine that I use for Shocks. I'm just trying to figure out the frequency of chemical additions required to the pool with this method.

Off hand I would say my pool is a ~13,000G (Based on online calculators). It's In Ground, 25ft Long, 10Ft Wide. Shallow end of 4 ft, Deep end of 9-10ft (These are rough guesses).

Thanks in advance for the help!

You can use Trichlor tabs for chlorine and Borax and baking soda as needed. (Borax raises pH, baking soda raises alk.) But, just be aware that those tabs have CYA (stabilizer) in them and over time can cause your CYA level to get out of hand. Many people with high CYA have algae problems because they don't understand the relationship between CYA and chlorine levels -- the higher your CYA, the higher your chlorine must be. More info about this here: http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

If you keep your chlorine levels in range (based on the Best Guess Chlorine chart linked above) you actually never need to shock your pool. What is the liquid chlorine that your pool store sells? 10 or 12% sodium hypochlorite? If that is the case, that is the same stuff as household bleach but just at a higher concentration. (Most places now sell bleach that is 8.25% sodium hypochlorite.)

Hope this helps. Let us know if you have further questions and someone here will try and help.

Welcome to the Pool Forum!

Edit -- By the way, what kind of test kit do you have?

That makes a lot of sense with the Trichlor tabs and the increased CYA. Is there an alternative puck treatment?

Assuming I just opted for Bleach/Liquid chlorine is there a general rule of thumb for how often we have to apply it?

There are no other tabs for chlorinators other than trichlor.

Regarding how often you would have to add liquid chlorine or bleach depends on your CYA level and a lot of other factors so I can't tell you specifically.

Do you have a test kit? If so, what type? It might be, depending on your CYA level, that you could get by with adding bleach only 1 or 2 times per week.

I do have a Test kit but can't for the life of me pull a brand name from it. It's been labelled Pool Shoppe (from where I purchased it) and the Barcode says LIFEGARD #78 Test Kit PRT. Brand. I'll have to double check but I know it measures PH, Chlorine, Alk at the very least.

Unfortunately I can't order the recommended kits from Amazon (Being in Canada and all) and I find it very hard to choke down $100 for a testing kit right now when the $50 one I bought last year still has plenty of chemicals left in it.

I hadn't caught the fact that you were in Canada.

The problem with NOT having this particular kit is that you are limited to being able to test a chlorine level no higher than 5ppm with other kits. If you are going to run a high CYA pool and thus have to run higher than normal chlorine levels, you are going to have to have some way to test higher than 5ppm. (Did you have a look at the Best Guess chart?) You also have to have a way to test CYA. The only test that can accurately measure CYA is the 'disappearing black dot' test which most kits don't have.

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Originally Posted by Watermom

I hadn't caught the fact that you were in Canada.

The problem with NOT having this particular kit is that you are limited to being able to test a chlorine level no higher than 5ppm with other kits. If you are going to run a high CYA pool and thus have to run higher than normal chlorine levels, you are going to have to have some way to test higher than 5ppm. (Did you have a look at the Best Guess chart?) You also have to have a way to test CYA. The only test that can accurately measure CYA is the 'disappearing black dot' test which most kits don't have.

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I'll have to check when I get home in a few hours but I'm pretty sure it has a chlorine readout higher than 5. If needed I suppose I could do diluted tests with distilled water.

I know generally pool shops can be misleading but would it be unreasonable to get the water tested there then act on my own accord? I figure this could probably be a good stop gap measure until I can find a way to nab one of the good kits.

See what tests your kit has. It is a drops-based kit, right? Does the chlorine sample turn yellow or pink when you add the drops? Check when you get home and report back and then we'll go from there.

The Chlorine goes yellow. If I recall from last year for the PH test I keep on adding drops until the water goes Clear then refer to the chart.

Chlorine tests that turn yellow are OTO kits that can only go to 5ppm. The Phenol Red test that accompanies it is the type where you add 5 red drops to a water sample and then do a color comparison (shades of pink/red).

Though not ideal, you can kinda get by with dilution to test your water using distilled water. (Not super accurate though.) Another way to kinda get by is by using an off the scale color matching chart that shows you higher chlorine readings using an OTO kit. Copy and paste the following link into a browser window while you are NOT logged into the forum to be able to see it.

http://pool9.net/oto/

But....... you would still have to know your CYA reading. Does your pool store do the 'disappearing black dot' test to test for CYA? That is the only way you are going to get an accurate reading. Knowing your CYA reading is critical.

I'll have to see what their test comes up with. They usually give me a sheet printout when we're done.

If not then I suppose I'll have to get the $100 kit to start testing :(

And, not only what their test comes up with, but how they do it. (Some pool stores have fancy-smancy computerized test readers that seem to give such accurate readings to two decimal places but..... in actuality they aren't too accurate, unfortunately.) Hopefully, they do the disappearing black dot test. Ask them.

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Originally Posted by Watermom

And, not only what their test comes up with, but how they do it. (Some pool stores have fancy-smancy computerized test readers that seem to give such accurate readings to two decimal places but..... in actuality they aren't too accurate, unfortunately.) Hopefully, they do the disappearing black dot test. Ask them.

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Will do. Heading there after work to get a jug of Chlorine.

So I got my test results from the Pool Shoppe this weekend. They are doing the tests manually now with vials instead of the computer readout. Also they used the fading black dot test.

Free Chlorine: 10PPM
Total Chlorine: 10PPM
pH: 7.4
Alkalinity: 101PPM
Cyanuric Acid: 80PPM

The water looks beautiful and should be good for swimming once the Chlorine comes down a bit. Thus far I've only shocked it with Chlorine.

So given these levels what would be the next step to adopt the BBB technique? Just keep the readings there and shock it every couple of days? I have some of the tabs left that I'd like to run out. Could I just use those up as long as my CYA levels stay in check?

http://i.imgur.com/e5UCrXZl.jpg

You can use those tabs but just realize they will continue to add CYA and yours is already pretty high at 80. It is your choice. But, whatever you decide to do, just make sure that you always keep your chlorine in the proper range per our "Best Guess Chlorine Chart." Read about it here: http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

By the way, it is not necessary to routinely shock a pool. As long as you make sure that your chlorine never drops below the minimum (from chart I linked), and you don't have more than 0.5ppm of CC, then you actually don't need to shock. Of course, if you have an excessively high swimmer load (like from a party) or have a bad storm that drops a lot of organic debris into your pool, then shocking is not a bad idea. Honestly, I seldom shock my pool. I monitor my chlorine levels consistently and thus don't need to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watermom

You can use those tabs but just realize they will continue to add CYA and yours is already pretty high at 80. It is your choice. But, whatever you decide to do, just make sure that you always keep your chlorine in the proper range per our "Best Guess Chlorine Chart." Read about it here: http://pool9.net/cl-cya/

By the way, it is not necessary to routinely shock a pool. As long as you make sure that your chlorine never drops below the minimum (from chart I linked), and you don't have more than 0.5ppm of CC, then you actually don't need to shock. Of course, if you have an excessively high swimmer load (like from a party) or have a bad storm that drops a lot of organic debris into your pool, then shocking is not a bad idea. Honestly, I seldom shock my pool. I monitor my chlorine levels consistently and thus don't need to.

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Ok I think I'm understanding how this works. Since I have a CYA level of 80PPM I should keep my Free Chlorine anywhere between 5-10ppm? (Based on the Best Guess chart you listed?)

You got it!

Personally, I wouldn't want my CYA higher than 80ppm and would not use any more tabs or dichlor (which also add CYA) but if you do, just adjust your chlorine level accordingly. One benefit to having a higher CYA pool is that you can usually go a little longer between having to add bleach. Take it up to the max per the chart and then, when it gets close to the minimum, it's time to dose with bleach again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watermom

You got it!

Personally, I wouldn't want my CYA higher than 80ppm and would not use any more tabs or dichlor (which also add CYA) but if you do, just adjust your chlorine level accordingly. One benefit to having a higher CYA pool is that you can usually go a little longer between having to add bleach. Take it up to the max per the chart and then, when it gets close to the minimum, it's time to dose with bleach again.

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Excellent. Pretty straight forward once you get down to it. I take it the only way to lower your CYA is to add more fresh water correct? It will not evaporate over time?

It will not evaporate over time. Really the only way to lower it is to do partial drains and refills which are a real pain and waste a lot of water. Much better to just make sure that your CYA doesn't get too high in the first place.

Some pools do lose their CYA over the winter. It biodegrades and causes a HUGE chlorine demand to get rid of all of the byproducts left behind. It isn't fun when this happens and takes a TON of bleach to clear it up. Unfortunately, there is no real way to know which pools will have this happen. Hopefully, you won't ever have to deal with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watermom

It will not evaporate over time. Really the only way to lower it is to do partial drains and refills which are a real pain and waste a lot of water. Much better to just make sure that your CYA doesn't get too high in the first place.

Some pools do lose their CYA over the winter. It biodegrades and causes a HUGE chlorine demand to get rid of all of the byproducts left behind. It isn't fun when this happens and takes a TON of bleach to clear it up. Unfortunately, there is no real way to know which pools will have this happen. Hopefully, you won't ever have to deal with it.

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Thanks. That's pretty much all I need to run this sucker. I'll forgo using the rest of my tablets. Probably only 10 left anyways. I'll see if I can find anyone else that uses them and donate them.

Ok, good idea to give them to a friend with a pool. But, don't put them in the trash! That could be illegal and could be dangerous!

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Originally Posted by Watermom

Ok, good idea to give them to a friend with a pool. But, don't put them in the trash! That could be illegal and could be dangerous!

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Yep, saw you tell someone that in another thread so I took heed. The funny part is when they ask why I'm getting rid of it I explain what the BBB method is and they don't want them anymore because they want to try BBB.

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Originally Posted by mfhache

The funny part is when they ask why I'm getting rid of it I explain what the BBB method is and they don't want them anymore because they want to try BBB.

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So here is what you do. Offer them the tabs. They'll say yes. Put them in their hands before you tell them about BBB. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watermom

So here is what you do. Offer them the tabs. They'll say yes. Put them in their hands before you tell them about BBB. ;)

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Ah, the old "You touched them last, so they're yours" technique. I can get down with that :P.

Thanks for all the advice.

You are very welcome. Let us know if you need any further help. We'll be here. :)