Excessive bleach consumption

I am having the same problem smallpooldad is having in his thread below, but instead of living in beautiful Hawaii, I live in GA...Alas.

Friday night I added 2 jugs of 6% bleach, 3 qt size. I didn't test my checmials then. I tested Saturday AM and here's what I had:

FC 2
CC 0
TC 2
PH 7.8
ALK 170
CAL 150
CYA 35

The CYA was between 30 and 40, so I guesstimated it at 35. I added 2 more jugs of bleach Saturday morning. I tested this morning and my FC was 1, so I had to add 2 more jugs of bleach.

I have an IG pool, 21k gallons, and according to the bleach calc, each jug of bleach I use should raise my FC 2.1 PPM.

I have read where some of you guys only have to add bleach once a week or so. I have no CC's in my pool. What should I do? I read on smallpooldad's thread where he was advised to shock the pool, but since I have no CC's would I need to? Should I raise my CYA higher? I have about 1/2 a bottle left. I don't want to get it too high, and have to drain to lower it. I leave my filter running 24/7, only turning off to run my Aquabot, and my water is crystal clear. It's not that hot where I live now, only about 84. My bleach was just bought 3 days ago and kept inside my house in the kitchen, so it didn't get hot. Any ideas/comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
TIA.

Sounds like you are fighting something even though CC shows 0. Try shocking it up to 12ppm, keep it there for a day or two and see if maintains it better, or falls rapidly again. This is usually the time you want to shock your pool and makes sure everything is really, quite sincerely dead.

OK Carl, I shocked to 12 last night and will check and shock to 12 again tonight. I also added the remainder of my CYA, roughly 2 lbs. I'll post back my results. Hopefully this will slow down the bleach use.

What I'd do in this case is to shock to 12 at night. Add you bleach, circulate and test before you go to bed. See if you really hit the number you were aiming for. Then, test again in the morning before the sun comes up. This will eliminate the sun as a factor. If your Cl drops overnight still, then yes, you are fighting something. If not, it's just the sun burning it off.

Michael

We didn't get home until late tonight. I tested about 10:45 and my FC was down to 2, and this was after adding 5 jugs of bleach yesterday. I added 2 in the morning when I tested to get it up to a safe swimming level, then added 3 more at night. Unfortunately, I wont be able to test again tonight as work calls tomorrow AM. I will test when I get home tomorrow and add bleac at sundown, recheck in an hour, then check early Wednesday AM.

OK, I added 5 jugs of bleach last night, and my FC is now 4 PPM. I am going to add 4 jugs to try and get my level to 12 PPM. I will test an hour after adding to see where I actually am and post results back. I think I lost about 8 PPM from last night to now.

Added 4 jugs of bleach @ 9:45, FC was 4, 21k IG oval vinyl pool. Should take me to 12 PPM. I am going to check in an hour or so-is this long enough for the bleach to circulate and mix?

mmm, should be.

At 11:10 I tested again and have 14 PPM FC. I was at 4 PPM and added 4 jugs of bleach to get me to 14, so 3 qts raise me 2.5 PPM. I will check in the morning before the sun starts bearing down on my pool and see if it holds steady overnight. Hopefully if I was fighting something, even though my CC has been 0, this will nuke it.

At 8 AM my FC was 8. There was absolutely no sun whatsoever on the pool that early so I can rule it out. I don't have any algae or dead things in my pool to consume that much chlorine. After I did my FC test I added the 5 drops of R-003 and it was a very pale color, more like cloudy. It didn't turn any shade of red. I added 1 drop of R-0871 and it cleared up, so I guess I do have .5 CC? I'm going to add 2 jugs of bleach now, which should bring me up to 13 on FC, and retest when I get home later tonight.

Do you currently have a high bather load? With just two people swimming in my pool about every other day, my CL demand goes up quite a bit, (especially after jumping in right after a lot of yard work) ;)

Yes, all of a sudden my 7 year old daughter is the most popular kid around now that the pool is open. Plus, we have a lot of family and friends over on weekends for cookouts. However, yesterday, only 3 people swam for about an hour, maybe less, all day. I still lost 5 PPM overnight, no swimmers, no sun.

There is something working on taking hold in your pool. Bring your chlorine up to shock levels and keep it there until the chlorine holds overnight. You must be consistant. Everytime you let the chlorine drop down, the culprit is trying to take hold. The only way to get out of this pattern is to hold the pool at shock levels until they hold overnight. Try to test 3 x a day, if that isn't possible add more bleach to hold over till you test at least 2x a day - but make sure you test at night after the sun goes down, and before the sun gets on your pool, this way you will be able to tell when the chlorine is holding.

Did you have a sudden drop in your CYA levels at all? Also, with lots of young friends, i'm guessing there's a certain amount of ammonia being released which can lead to Cl demand. Kinda sounds like a CYA decomposition problem. Well, at least we know it's something in there, and not the sun. Keep at it, you'll get it eventually.

Michael

Tonight's test at 11:00 PM I have 5 FC. I was at 9 FC when I tested around 8 AM, and added 2 jugs of bleach, which should have brought me to around 14 FC. I added 3 jugs of bleach tonight which should bring me up to around 12.5 FC. I haven't had any sudden drop of CYA. I am out of the R-0013 now so I can't test my CYA until my new kit arrives. It was around 35, and I added the last of the CYA in my jug, around 2 lbs., on Sunday. I will be up bright and early and test and bleach again before work. I am amassing a lot of empty bleach jugs!

6:30 AM test shows FC of 9, so I lost 3.5 PPM FC overnight. I added 2 jugs of bleach to bring it back up to around 14. Will retest after work again. I will throw my Aquabot in tonight and let it run, as there is a little dirt on the botom. Should I brush the pool down too? Honestly, I have gotten lazy on brushing. TIA.

You're not the only lazy brusher here! I only brush if I see stuff on my walls. With the aquabot tho, you really don't need to brush since it does the walls for ya.

6 pm test, FC 5, adding 3 jugs to bring to about 12.5 PPM. Whatever I am fighting is stubborn. I will test and add again before bed tonight.

Any ideas or guesses what's going on? The pool isn't used much throughout the week, but something is eating away at the bleach. I have no CC's and no signs of any algae anywhere. My water looks great.

Voldaddy,

I would bring your Cl up to 15 +. Keep in mind I am an agressive (but accurate) bleach user so here's my thinking:

Your last CYA test you said was 30-40 and you added 2lbs since (12ppm) so now you could easily be in excess of 50CYA

Ben's "best guess" says if your CYA is that high, 15ppm is breakpoint and 20ppm is breakpoint for CYA of 60.

Lastly, your Cl will start to diminish instantly...particularly since you seem to be working on something. You will probably never reach your intended target.....but you'll get very close.

Do I think you're in danger of bleaching your liner at those levels?....No

Will I buy you a new one if I am wrong?.....no, again :D

My .02.

Kinda sounds to me like your cya isn't high enough for stabilization. I'd up that to about 50 and see if that helps. Are you sure you read the CYA test right?

day1,

He is around 50ppm CYA now.

Not sure exactly where I am on CYA now, but guesstimating was around 35 the last time I tested. I ran out of the R-0013 and am waiting on my new kit to arrive so I can retest. I added roughly 2 more lbs of CYA, again another guesstimate as it was about half of a 4 lb jug that I had left. I did shock it up to about 15 tonight. I was at 5 PPM and added 4 jugs of bleach. I walked 3 jugs around the pool and dumped one through my skimmer. My wife bought Clorox tonight instead of the generic stuff I get because it was on sale and actually a little cheaper. Maybe using the name brand bleach will do the trick! It is regular Clorox, no scent added. I will test again early in the morning and shock back to around 15. I also put my Aquabot in this evening. Maybe it will pick up whatever little creatures are lurking and feasting on my bleach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by day1

Kinda sounds to me like your cya isn't high enough for stabilization. I'd up that to about 50 and see if that helps. Are you sure you read the CYA test right?

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Cya isn't the problem here. His Cl is dropping overnight, when there's no sun. The problem is elsewhere.

Michael

6 AM reading of FC is 11.5, lost around 3.5 PPM overnight. Added 1 jug of bleach to get to 14. Is it a positive that I only lost 3.5 instead of the usual 5 overnight? I had the Aquabot in last night as well, so hopefully the bleach killed whatever it is and the Aquabot picked it up.

Absolutely. That shows a definite improvement. Keep at it!

Michael

A couple of points to think about.

If you're using an Aquabot you might be getting lazy about the backwash and have a lot of organic debris in the sand filter. I can see that coming on my pattern and I've only had the Dolphin about 10 days. Junk in the filter or in the Aquabot or in the pool itself is all the same to the chlorine. It will get consumed trying to oxodize it.

Also there is a chance that the chlorine has lost a lot of it kick before you put it in the pool. I'm sure if you played with numbers you could put a few drops of your bleach in a gallon of distilled water or something to see if it was really still 6% by the time you get it home to put it in the pool. Maybe just try a different source. (just noticed the comments about Clorox ... good move )

When you do your nightly additions of Cl. to get it to 15, I'd leave it an hour and then add another gallon before I hit the sack. If you're just touching your break point at 15, one hour after you got there you will be below the break point already..add some more ..and leave the pump running all night.

Didn't get a chance to test this afternoon as we took the kids to see Cars tonight after work. I was at 11.5 at 6 this morning. I added 1 jug of bleach to get to around 14. There were people over swimming tonight when we got home. I just tested at midnight and my FC was 6. I added 3 jugs around the pool and slowly poured one in the skimmer to see if that would help kill anything in the filter. I haven't backwashed in a week due to adding CYA through the skimmer Sunday. I will backwash tomorrow morning when I get up and test again. There is going to be straight sun on my pool tomorrow and inm the 90's, with a heavy swimmer load, so I know I will lose some in the day. Whatever I am fighting sure the heck is stubborn. I have been waiting on my replacement test kit since May 3rd and am out of R-0013 to test my CYA, and my DPD powder is getting to the bottom and clumping. I may have to go to Leslie's and just buy a kit there. Has anybody else ever had to fight anything like this before? My water is crystal clear and I have 0 CC. I have been hammering away with bleach all week, and still having to do so.

Gee, it sounds almost as if you are fighting bacquacil or used a bromine concoction to kill algae. Those folks have to use lots and lots and lots of bleach before the pool settles down. BTW, I've forgotten--is your pH correct? Toward the low end of the 7.3-78 range? Have you considered keeping it between 7.0 and 7.4? Chlorine is more effective at lower pH levels.

Leslies usually has the reagent refills, and they sell them from their on-line site as well. They also have a FAS-DPD kit. Of course, Taylor's on-line site has all that stuff too.

VOL,

Rereading this whole thread, I do not believe you have shocked your pool.

Remember, shocking isn't about adding extra chlorine, it's about reaching breakpoint.....a chemical reaction that puts all your Cl back in the free state. I don't think you ever got there.

A complete set of test results....particularly CYA..... would eliminate a lot of guesswork and probably allow you to get your pool cleaned up

Here's my morning numbers. Last night I shocked to about 16 PPM about midnight. This morning at 9 AM i had a FC reading of 12.5. I will add another jug of bleach through the skimmer to get to around 15 again. I really appreciate everyone that has helped me out here.

I backwashed this morning and had some nasty water for about 3 minutes, I haven't backwashed in a week due to adding CYA through the skimmer. I then rinsed for about a minute and put back to filter. I am running my pump 24/7.

Here are my complete results-at least what I was able to test for with what I have left:

FC 12.5
CC 0
TC 12.5
PH 7.5
ALK 150

I will be going to the local Leslie's today and buying more reagents so I can do the CYA test and new DPD powder. We will have a large swimmer load today so I'm sure my number will drop when I test tonight. I hate going to Leslie's because I aleays spend too much $$$, like a kid in a candy store. I think I will pick up one of the whale brushes and brush my pool thoroughly, which admittedly I haven't done since I converted last year from Baquacil. I haven't seen 1 speck of algae so I have gotten lazy, letting the Aquabot do my work once or twice a week. I will post my CYA level later. Have a great weekend at your pools!

I don't recall off the top of my head if this is a gunite or vinyl pool, but I do sorta remember a pool that Ben was messing with. He took the FC up to some insane number like 45 or so. Maybe it was even 75? I don't remember but it was some crazy big number. Of course, that's only safe to do in a gunite pool, but if you're getting tired of beating on this thing that may be a direction you want to try. I'd use the 12.5% stuff to do that so you don't have to buy out your local grocery store. :D

Michael

Unfortunately I have a vinyl pool, so blasting it at those levels isn't an option. I think I will become a part-time day trader and buy stock in Clorox...

Went and purchased more R-0013 and my CYA is 40. Should I bump it up any or leave it where it is since I am losing FC overnight and battling some wild alien life form in my pool?

BTW- I knew I would end up getting something in my local pool store that I just couldn't live without. Well, they had a Uniden cordless phone that is submersible and waterproof. It also floats. Needless to say, I now own one...How did I survive without one? LOL. I know women get the bad wrap for being compulsive shoppers, but I admit, I am in that category as well. I'm not allowed to go to Bass Pro Shops alone with my buddies again. :)

One other thing, the manager at Leslie's didn't know what DPD powder was. He had some rapid dissolve tablets but said they didn't have powder. I told him it was on their website for sale. I opened the chlorine extreme high and low kit and voila, there it was. I had to buy the whole kit to get the 10 gms of powder. He asked if I was running a commercial pool. I told him no, residential. He then advised me that my chlorine should never get that high and the normal kit was what I needed. I told him I am shocking to about 15 PPM so I needed it. He asked what I used and I told him bleach...the phrase deer in headlights applies here. Then the bleach is bad speech came. I told him I am fine with it and my pool looks fabulous. Long story short, come on Fed-Ex, USPS, or UPS, and get my new kit here so I can avoid this place!

VOL,

I can see it now. Adult beverages, an inadvertant tumble into that beautiful pool, and never losing a syllable because of the new phone!! :D

I see no reason to increase the CYA. It has no affect on the organics you're fighting.....and may actually make your Cl a little less effective.

Keep pouring the Clorox in there!

LOL! I knew other men would see why I had to have this phone...

Ben always warns folks to be circumspect around pool stores. If you say "Liquid Chlorine" they don't blink, but go into a hissy fit and have a cow if you say bleach. :eek:

But that's nothing--if they tell you to use the "slug" method to lower total alkalinity and you tell them the truth that it doesn't work and it damages the liner, they go BALLISTIC!:D

11 PM reading 5.5 PPM. I added 4 jugs of bleach, which should get me to about 15.5 PPM overnight. I expected a drop today due to 90+ heat and a heavy swimmer load. I'll check again tomorrow AM and see what I lose overnight.

At 12:20 AM I am still up so I decided to test again. The last time I tested an hour after I poured bleach in a jug raised my FC 2.5 PPM. My FC was at 5.5, and I added 4 jugs, assuming I would be around 15.5. However, I was only at 13.5, so I am pouring a jug through my skimmer to get around 15.5-16 PPM. The other test I did was with generic bleach when I got a rise of 2.5 PPM, and now I am using Clorox. They are both 6%.

At 9 AM I had 14 PPM FC, so I lost 2-2.5 PPM from midnight to 9. I added a jug of bleach through the skimmer since it will be 92 today and we will have a heavy swimmer load. I am going to have to make another bleach run today.

You seem to be making progress! Best of luck.