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I am a newbie also. I have an above ground 24' round. We filled it up using water that goes thru our water filtration system. After testing, I found out that the pH level is zero and the total alkalintiy is zero. Chlorine was low, but I have added some to it and it is better. My studies of pools have led me to believe that the copper level is way too high. Need help!!!!!!Anyone please!!!!!
I don't remember my chemistry that well, but I don't think your pH is 0. How are you doing the test? How old is the test kit? Alakalinity can be raised by adding baking soda, which will also raise the pH. If your water truly was anywhere close to 0, it'd be interesting to watch when you added the baking soda :) That's one of the ways they make volcano's in school science projects
First of all you need to post some test numbers for Free chlorine, total chlorine, pH, total Alkalinity, Calcium, and CYA (stabilizer). How are you testing the water. Are you using test strips, a drop based kit, or having the pool store do it? It is immpossible for pH to be 0! if you filled your pool with concentrated sulfuric acid the pH would be 1!:eek: Why do you think you have copper in your water? Have you tested for it? A little more info would be helpful in determining just what problem you are having. Your post title is "Green Hair". Has anyones hair turned green after going into the pool?
I just noticed the winking icon in the title of this post. I also notices that this is 'readytoscreams' first post! I think someone is having fun but I think it is a sorry way to do it. There are too many people on here who are serious about asking for help with real problems. If this is not a bogus post I applogize and will try to help you but if it is I think the moderators need to alert Ben about this person.
Just my 2 cents!
I am not playing games. I am truley having problems and came here for help. I bought my test strips from Blue Dolphin just yesterday. Maybe my info was not correct or precise enough. All the colors were at the lowest end on the test strip. The pool is at my mother's house and she used some kind of copper algicide to try and get the pool ready for this season and was having no luck. She turned it over to me. After my children went swimming on Monday, Labor Day, they got out and thier scalps and anything white on thier swim suits were green. I came home and started researching on the internet for answers. I found this message board. I REALLY NEED SOME ANSWERS!!!
Something I should have mentioned is, I am not pool savvy when it comes to all the different pool terms I've been reading. I also apologize for the winking icon. Didn't realize it was winking.
We'll try to help you, but there is some basic information we need first. Please take a sample of your water to a pool store and have them test it, and post results here for TC, FC, pH, TA, CYA, and any metal content. Don't let them talk you into buying ANYTHING. For help clearing up problems, the test strips simply aren't accurate enough. Post some drop-based numbers up, and we can go from there.
Janet
ok I appologize and can give you some real help here! If the kids hair or scalp is still green read this post (my reply)
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=326
Test strips just won't do it for testing a pool that needs to be balanced. Go to walmart and get their 6 way or 5 way test kit that will test chlorine, pH, alkalinity, calcium, and CYA (stabilizer). It costs around $15 dollars and run a set of tests and post the resutls. You can also go to a pool store that does water testing with reagents ,not strips, and post those results if you like. Most pool stores can also test for metals so ask them to do so if you choose this route. Don't buy anything they recommend at this point until you post the test results.
Don't let the kids back in the pool until you get the water under control!
Also, if you can let us know EXACTLY what products have been put into the pool and if possible how much. It sounds like it was overdosed on copper!
Once again I aplogize but after reading through the thread a second time and seeing the winking icon it just seems a bit strange! No hard feelings?:)
Thanks, no hard feelings. Now that I know someone is taking me serious, I'll take the water and have it tested. Get back to you tommorow. I read that Borax will raise the pH level? Just want to know if this is true and can you tell me what all the different levels are and what they do? pH, free chlorine, chlorine, alkalinity, etc.
Borax will raise the pH without having much impact on total alkalinity. That is important and is why most of us on the forum use it instead of pH increaser (sodium carbonate also known as soda ash or washing soda). Raising pH without raising the total alkalinity makes your water easier to get balanced! Post your readings and we will explain them to you.
Okay, I Checked the water with a 15 sec test strip (brand new), the pH level was 6.2...the free chlorine, total alkalinity, and stabilizer were all 0. What now?
We don't really think too much of the accuracy of teststrips. Better to use a drops-based kit. At any rate, if your ph truly is 6.2, you need to raise it ASAP! Any reading below 7.0 is acidic and can damage your pool. Add a box of Borax slowly to the skimmer while the pump is running. Wait a few hours to let it circulate, then retest and redose until you get it to at least 7.0. Then start adding only a half or a third of a box at a time. Actually, aim for 7.4-7.6.
Also, add 3 quarts of plain, unscented bleach to the skimmer. That should take your FC to about 4.5 or so. Without any stabilizer in your water, you'll need to test morning and night and each time add some more bleach. Buy some cya. You may be able to buy it at Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot, or you may have to go to a pool store. It may be called stabilizer or conditioner. Check the ingredient label. If it says cyanuric acid or isocyanuric acid, it is what you want. Add enough per label directions to get you to a reading of about 30. Add it to the skimmer. Do not broadcast it across the pool like the label may tell you to do. Then, don't retest, add more or backwash for about a week to let it dissolve. After you start getting a cya reading, you should be able to test and dose with bleach in the evenings only, but in the meantime, it will be necessary to do it morning and evening or you won't be able to keep any chlorine in the pool.
You can raise your alk with baking soda - again, add it to the skimmer. 80-125 is a good level. Add a box at a time until you start getting a reading, then smaller doses.
Hope this helps.
First off...don't believe a 15 sec test strip--it may be accurate, maybe not. You can get a little OTO/pH test kit at any pool store and most discount houses, even that is better.
HOWEVER, the one thing they are usually pretty good at is chlorine--if it shows 0 you have 0. If it shows 10+, you have 10 or more--between those two....weellllllll I don't buy.
I know I'm being a little glib but if your pH is 6.2 you need to raise it immediately. Your two best choices are Borax or Washing Soda/Soda Ash. Borax will raise pH, and Soda Ash will raise pH and Total alk, which you need (but you can add baking soda instead).
I'd start with a full box of Borax --20 Mule Team at your grocery store. Make sure the pump is running. Add it to the skimmer. Wait, say, an hour. Then I would add, to the skimmer, 1 gallon of regular bleach to get some chlorine in the water. Wait, oh, say 2 hours and check your water again. If the pH is below 7.0, add another box of Borax. Wait another hour and if FC shows less than 3ppm, add another gallon of bleach.
Keep doing this until pH is 7.3-7.8 and FC is 3ppm.
Then worry about total alkalinity and CYA (stabilizer). You are aiming for T/A of 80-125--add one # of baking soda, wait a couple of hours and check. If low, add another #. You need at least 30ppm of stabilizer, but not more than 50ppm. You can buy this at discount houses or pool stores. Figure out, from the label, how much for 13,000 gallons (24'round) you need to get 30ppm of CYA. Use about half that amount. You can put it in an old stocking and hang it near the return, or put it in the skimmer, but don't turn off the filter or backwash for a week. Then measure CYA again, and repeat, until you reach 30-50ppm.
Hope this all helps.
Just a suggestion. Walmart and sometimes Kmart sell a 6 way test kit (by Aquachem) that is a good starter kit and much more accurate than the test strips. It uses liquid reagents and costs about $15. You probably paid as much, if not more, for those strips. See if you can find it. It will make getting your pool balanced and swimmable much easier and faster! Test strips are just not good for balancing a pool. They don't have enough accuracy and precision. The walmart kit is accurate and easy to use and is what you need right now.
If you REALLY want to do it right either get a Taylor K-2006 kit (around $60 or so) or order the kit from the sister website to this forum www.poolsolutions.com. You want the PS234. It is very similar to the Taylor kit but is a better value for the money. It gives you more of the reagents that you need and that get used up quickly and leaves out 2 pretty useless tests that you really don't need. Even though the kit on poolsolutions costs a bit more it gives you enough reagents for more tests then the Taylor kit, expecially pH and CYA. For example, the Taylor kit only gives you enough to test CYA about 5 times while the PS234 will let you test about 21 times before you need more reagent. All the other tests have enough reagents to do more tests also when compared to the Taylor kit.
Okay got my water tested at a pool store. Here are the results Free and total chlorine are 0, Ph is 6.8, calcium hardness is 30, toal alkalinity is 43, cyanuric acid is 29, copper/iron is 1.3 phosphates is 0. What now? Thanks for the tip on the green hair. My girls pretty blonde hair is getting back to normal!
Get some chlorine in there before your pool turns green! Each quart of 6% bleach will raise the cl by 1 to 1.5ppm in a 24ft AG pool. Test each evening, and add enough bleach to get back to 6ppm. Also add a half a box of Borax at a time (to the skimmer), wait a few hours to let it circulate, retest and redose til you get ph to 7.4-7.6. You can also add a half a box of baking soda in the same way until you get the alk to 80-125. Calcium hardness is irrelevent in a vinyl pool. If you find that you are having a hard time keeping chlorine in the pool through a day, you may decide later to bump the cya level up to 40 or 50, but try it at 30 for now.
What about the copper? They tried to sell me a bottle of Keetrol to capture the copper. Do I still need this. I've noticed that we are beginning to have small orangey brown spots at the bottom.
you posted copper/iron at 1.3 ppm. Which is it, copper, iron, or both? If either copper or iron is that high you need the keetrol or a similar product such as Jack's Magic Blue Stuff or ProTeam's Metal Magic. Before you use a product like this the bottle will tell you what your pH and chlorine levels need to be. Follow the directions and do this first! How many gallons is your pool. You said it was a 24' round. How deep? If you don't know the gallons then post the depth and we can calculate it for you. If you have a 4' water depth then the pool is about 13,500 gal. Then we can get you on your way to getting the water balanced!
The test results had copper/iron 1.3. Not sure which it is, but knowing that my mother put the copper chemical, like a goof ball, in it to clean it before I took over the maintenace I would probably be safe in assuming it is the copper. The pool is 13,500 gallons. I went this afternoon and bought 4gallons of bleach, 4 boxes of 20 mule team borax, and 6lbs of baking soda. With my test results what do I add first, how much and when?
First thing you need to do is get a metal treatment product and use it accoring to the directions. If you need to make any ajustments to the water before you use it and are not sure what to do post and we will help you. You need to deal with the metal first before you start adding chlorine. Most of the metal sequstering products work pretty much the same. Like I said before, Jack's Magic Blue Stuff and ProTeam's Metal Magic are both good products that I am familier with. Just be sure you use the dosage for metals in water and not the maintenance dosage.
Where do I get the Jack's Magic Blue Stuff? I checked at Lowe's and Wal-Mart.
Incase I forget to Thank all of you later, THANKS!!!
Last year I had the same problem with green hair. I treated the pool with Majestic Blue and no more green hair. I would imagine that it is the same as Jacks Magic Blue but I dont know for sure. I have continued using small doses just as a precaution and havent had any more problems.
You are going to have to go to a pool store to get Jack's Magic or one of the other good sequesterants. Expect to pay in the neighborhood of $20 a bottle or more. The Keetrol is probably pretty much the same but I am not familiar with that particular product.
I went to the Pool Store this morning and bought the Keetrol and a drop test kit (I think that is what ya'll called it). The only one they had tested the chlorine and pH. After testing this morning and the pH was 7.0 and the chlorine was still 0, I poured the Keetrol directly into the pool and 2 gals of bleach into the skimmer. I went back and tested again this afternoon. Everthing read IDEAL (yah) on the drop based test. So I decided to check with the strips just to see how off they were and they still showed the lowest end of the colors. Needless to say they went in the trash.
Can I now put chl tabs in the skimmer or should they be put directly into the water?
If you have a cartridge filter do not put the tabs in the skimmer. Might be ok with a sand filter but trichlor tabs are VERY acidic and can damage pumps and filters if put into the skimmer. They most probably will damage a filter cartridge but sand and DE filters won't be as suseptable. Get a floater for the tabs (they are cheap enough). check around, you want the kind that allows you to adusts how big the slots are so you can control the clorine. some floaters have holes you punch out and if you punch out too many you cannot lower the amount of chlorine you feed. Do NOT just drop the tabs in the pool. they will beach out your liner and the low pH will damage it where the tab sits.
You are making real progress here. You still need to check out Walmart and see if they have the aquachem 6 way test kit that uses reagents. If they do get it! You are going to need to test for more than just TC and pH. You can test at the pool store but the fact that they combined the copper and iron readings in one test disturbs me. I don't have a good feeling about that store.
Blue Dolphin is the pool store that I use. The skimmer basket is the only outlet on my pool. Does that mean I need to get a floater for the tabs and do I still need to do something about the 7.0 reading for pH.
Get a floater for the tabs, check out Walmart or Kmart for the aquachem test kit! If there is another pool store around let them test your water and compare the readings. When the metals read 0 ppm (or very close to it....not more than .3 ppm) you can procede with the water balancing and chlorine. The low pH right now is actually helping with the metals and is probably a result of the keetrol. As long as it doesn't get any lower then don't worry. If it does use Borax (20 Mule team in the green box from the laundry aisle at Walmart or the grocery store) to raise it up. Start with about 1/4 box poured into the skimmer and test the pH the next day. Repeat this process until the pH is around 7.2
Thanks. I actually let my girls go swimming today. No green hair.....thank goodness. One of them complained about the water stingy their eyes. Should this be another concern and if so what is the problem?
You really should NOT let them go swimming until you get this pool straightened out. There have been a lot of good suggestions but you are not really following in them. I am trying to take you through them step by step but you need to post the test results in between so we know what is going on and what you need to do next to get this pool balanced and SAFE to swim in!
You have added the metal sequesterant. Now you need to get the water retested for metals to see if it worked. Did you follow the directions on the bottle in terms of what your chlorine and pH needed to be before you added it? If not it might not have worked. Have you looked for the Aquachem 6 way test kit that uses liquid reagents at Walmart or Kmart? You will need it or a better kit. The Aquachem is the best cheap kit you can get for under $20.
You are going to need to be testing this water and getting accurate results for more than just chlorine and pH before this pool will be swimmable!
Sorry if I am coming on strong but you need to start doing things right or we really won't be able to help you at all.
I'll take the sample in the morning to another town's pool store and get the results posted soon as I get back home. Sorry!!!! I really have learned alot from you all. I thought I was doing good!!!!:(
You are doing good but there are seveal things going on in your pool and they need to be addresed one at a time and in proper order. Until they are I would not let your kids or anyone else swim in the pool. It just isn't safe! If the pool is still green or cloudy it DEFINITELY is not safe! Get the water tested and find yourself a decent test kit. the aquachem 6 way is the best you are going to find for cheap. If you can get an Taylor Technologies K-2006 you can test everything yourself except for the copper. It is not a cheap kit and will cost in the neigborhood of $70. Taylor also makes a stand alone copper test kit for around $20 but if you can find a pool store that can test for copper and iron separately, or just the copper, you really don't need to spend the money on it since we hope to get the copper problem under control and hopefully it won't come back with proper maintenance (which means adding the maintenance doses of Keetrol or another seqeuaterant as recommended on the bottle AND NEVER ADDING A COPPER ALGECIDE AGAIN. There are other and better ways to deal with algae, which should not come back if you care for the pool properly anyway)Quote:
Originally Posted by readytoscream
Okay, took the water to a different store and here are the results,
Free chl........1.4 was 0
Toal chl........1.4 was 0
Ph...............7.0 was 6.8
Cal Hard.......125 was 30
total alk.......45 was 43
Cya.............18 was 29
copper.........1.7 was1.3
Iron.............0 (last test did not tell which was which one was copper and Iron)
I found out the Keetrol does not get rid of metals, just ties them up. They suggested Baquacil Metal Control. One bottle treats 10K gallons of water. I went ahead and bought 2. This is supposed to get rid of the metals. The directions say to broadcast it over the water and doesn't say anything about the rest of the chem levels. I haven't put it in yet. I also bought a floater for the chl. I have on hand 20 mule team borax, baking soda, bleach, and chlorine tabs. Where do I go from here? Won't do anything until I hear from you. Sorry if I've been trying to fix the problem in a hurry. The water is crystal clear.
First, about the Keetrol and the Baquacil metal control....they both work exactly the same way...Neither one gets rid of the metals. They both just tie them up so they do not react with anything. You have been 'pool stored!":eek: If your pool is 24 ft and has about 4 feet of water it is just under 14000 gal so we will go with that number. If I am not mistaken i1qt. of Keetrol Plus treats 24000 gal for up to 2 ppm metals. Is that what you used? How much of it did you put in. If you put in the whole quart bottle you should be fine and can return the Baquacil metal control. If you did not put in Keetrol Plus then please post the dosage intructions for the one you put in and how much you used so we can see if it is enough or if you need to add some more of the Metal Control. That should tie up the metals. This pool store did much better testing but you still need your own test kit. Have you looked for the aquachem kit I suggested?Quote:
Originally Posted by readytoscream
Next step is to get your total alk up. Dont start on this until you have run the filter for 24 hours after adding the proper amount of Keetrol or metal control! Total Alk (TA) is raised with baking soda. Yu will need two four pound boxes of it for a total of 8 pounds. predissolve about half a box at a time in a bucket of pool water and put it in the pool. brush the pool to distribute it and mix it and then repeat until you have put in all 8 pounds. At this point put a chlorine tab in the floater and open the floater up about half way and put it in the pool. You now have to be patient and wait 48 hours and then bring the water back to the pool store that did the last test (return the unopened Baqucil metal control when you do) for a restest. If the TA is ok (It should be) we can then work on your pH and chlorine levels......you WILL be swimming soon! Post your new test results when you get them and we will take it from there!
Your calcium hardness is perfect for a vinyl pool. DO NOT let any of the pool stores try and sell you calcium....you don't need it...and they will try!
Just smile sweetly and say you already have some at home;)
Ditto for any other chems they might say you need. Just say that you are well stocked right now but you will buy from them when you need more.
I suspect your green water was from the copper and not from algae. What color is the water now? You said it was crystal clear but does it have any color to it? If it doesn't and you have put in the correct amount of metal seqesterant for 14000 gal and have run the filter for 24 hours then go ahead with the baking soda.
Waterbear,
I did put in the whole qt. of keetrol on Tues. The dosage instruction for this was the same as the metal control, it did not say anything about the other chems. Just said to pour it in away from the filter. Knowing I put it in, I cannot understand why the copper is higher. Do I still need to add some metal control?
I am still looking for the aquachem test kit. I'll have to find it, I cannot afford the Taylor Kit. Husband is going to stroke out when he finds out how much I've spent already LOL:D
The water hasn't been green for awhile now....At least 3 wks. Not even a tinted color.
Mikki
The water might still test for metal even when they are chelated. Go ahead with the baking soda, etc. as I told you in the last post and you might want to keep a bottle of the metal remover on hand in case the water gets a green tint again. this is possible as long at the copper test is above about .3 ppm. If it does turn green after shocking or adding a lot of bleach just put some more seqesterant in.
After you have added the baking soda and put the floater in wait 48 hours, retest, and post the results...you are not very far from swimming now
Going to start the baking soda now. Will post again in 48 hrs.
Quick question, I backwashed the pool before I put in the baking soda and the backwash water was GREEEEN! Is this a normal thing after adding the Keetrol? I did not put in the baking soda, I wanted to ask if it is still okay to go ahead and add it?
It is possible that some of the copper has precitipated out in the filter. this is what you want to happen but it usually doesn't. If it is then you are one of the lucky ones. It could also just be algae. Hard to tell. Just go ahead as planned for now.
Got my water tested again this morning and results were
Chl.......1.8 (free and total)
cal........49
alk.........119
pH..........7.2
copper........... .4
iron.............0
I put the baking soda in on Friday afternoon. I was like a kid at Christmas about the copper results!!!!!!!!
sounds like you are ready to swim! GOOD WORK!
The only test that I didn't see was you CYA (stabilzier). What type of chlorine are you using for normal sanitation? Pucks or bleach? Post your CYA levels and the type of chlorine you are using and we can get this finished. Your pool should be clear and clean now.....just keep monitoring the chlorine and pH and keep them in line! Ph should be kept between 7.2 and 7.6 ideally and chlorine is dependant on your CYA levels.
If I remember properly you CYA was at 18 ppm....if you are using pucks then it will continue to climb. If you are using bleach you need to add some stabilzier to get it between 30-50 ppm. check out this thread for where to run your chlorine and where to shock for your stabilizer level.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365