Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Or, method three, super easy. Given good water, no issues with metals and such.
Sprinkle a box or two of borax over the water with the pump off and let sit overnight. You will notice a few lumnps, no doubt, and that they are (mostly) gone the next morning. Run the pump, optionally, brush the pool to stir any borax in solution concentration. Add acid if necessary. Rinse, lather, repeat.
As to quantity, I don't mean to disrespect our swimming pool elder, but your advice doesn't seem right. This source suggests what amounts to one 4.75 pound box per 2400 gallons. http://www.thepoolpros.com/borax.html As to calculated, I must be doing something wrong today, I keep coming up with 236 ppm at that rate. Maybe I need to align my calculator...........
Re: Low cost flocculent....at taxidermy supply houses!
Paul,
You need to stop posting like this, or else post in THIS section. The ideas you've posted so far are far, far more likely to get users here in trouble, than to help them.
Alum can be used successfully, but it's very tricky and can back fire in big ways. Most people -- especially guys -- tend to operate on a "If some is good, more is better" philosophy, and putting 25lbs of alum in their hands pretty much guarantees some cloudy pool disasters.
Have you ever seen a 1' (NOT: 1"!) thick layer of alum floc? I have!
I'm actively looking for an online source of PAA (polyaluminum chloride), which is far less fussy, is more effective, and is better at removing phosphates, but I haven't found one yet. And, there's no sense recommending solutions which people can't use!
If you want to actively participate in experimenting with flocs, we'd welcome the help. But right now, we see more bad results from flocs, than good ones.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
paulvzo
As to quantity, I don't mean to disrespect our swimming pool elder, but your advice doesn't seem right. This source suggests what amounts to one 4.75 pound box per 2400 gallons.
http://www.thepoolpros.com/borax.html As to calculated, I must be doing something wrong today, I keep coming up with 236 ppm at that rate. Maybe I need to align my calculator...........
The page you reference will only bring the borate to 35 ppm if you follow their directions. FWIW, I am the grandfather of using borate in the water here, at TFP and at PoolSpaForum so you might want to chill a bit. Our info is correct. Yours has not proven to be so based on the corrections that both Ben and I have made to your previous posts.
Sprinling a box or two of borax in the water and letting it sit overnight is not going to do much in the average swimming pool (of 10k to 20k gallons) except perhaps raise the pH a bit. Not quite sure you are posting that bit of info. It's really worthless. 25 ppm is the minimum active borate concentration for algaestatic effect and 30 to 50 ppm for pH buffering effect.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
I just don't get the love in with flocculent or clarifiers. Are there some water conditions where they are required or helpful? Maybe I'm lucky and have good water, but any time the water is cloudy it's a sign that I need to shock the water, which clears it up. If I have to clean up an algae bloom, I kill it with the usual BBB method, and when the algae nuking it done, let the dead algae settle to the bottom and vaccum to waste. It seems like 90% of the time flocculent or clarifier is mentioned is when a mess hasn't been completely cleared up, such as green algae water going to cloudy, and pool owners think flocculent or clarifier is a short cut.
Never used the stuff, and have never needed it.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
With adequate filtration and circulation, clarifiers and flocculants usually aren't a big help. But, over 2/3 of pools do NOT have adequate filtration and circulation.
Also, flocs can help speed clean up of pools with dead algae, and some (PAA) can remove phosphates and metals.
The problem is that some, like alum, are very 'twitchy'. Potable water plants run continuous 'jar testing' to allow them tailor their alum + other floc blends to the conditions of the entering water. But, pool owners can't do that.
PAA is not nearly so twitchy, but I haven't ID'd a reliable source, packaging a known concentration.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Spensar, I need alum for the reason Ben mentions: Lots of dead algae. For seven months of the year I don't use the pool and I cannot afford to keep it chlorinated on my limited income. Plus, I get LOTS of plant and even some animal biomatter in the water, just the location. There's no way to filter this mass of slime and leaves, etc. So, alum to the rescue.
I use four or five cups broadcast over the pool and in about two days it's ready to scoop out the big stuff and then vacuum to discharge for the dead algae and dirt.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Nothing wrong with that; you're lucky it works that well for you, but many times luck is better than expertise.
What's wrong is broadcasting advice that EVERY body do likewise, unless you can also provide them with a working lucky charm that guarantees they get the results you do.
I've never personally tried to floc live goo -- it's worth an experiment. But at present I have no confidence that even 1/3 of the people who followed such advice would get similar results.
Also, less than 1/2 the people here have a working vacuum system . . .
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Interesting stuff, thanks.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
It's like any other pool tool. It might be right, it might not be.
The last two summers I massively chlorinated, I floculated, I brush everything to the dep end to rot or whatever. This year I removed the whatevers.
Alum has its place. And its cheapest at taxidermy supply houses.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Sodium percarbonate is another way to clear a badly fouled pool. It makes everything float so it is easy to scoop out and oxidized the sustpended stuff to clear the water. It does raise pH so hyou need to add acid with it to keep the pH in line.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
This IS a topic that we need to explore.
The routine we've suggested -- massive chlorine; massive cleaning -- has the virtue of always working, but the disadvantage of being difficult and expensive.
However, the other methods -- as best I can tell -- are not refined enough to produce consistent results. How can we improve that?
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PoolDoc
What's wrong is broadcasting advice that EVERY body do likewise, unless you can also provide them with a working lucky charm that guarantees they get the results you do.
Never meant as advice that everyone should partake of. Maybe I just presume incorrectly that people can look at a posting and figure out if it is meant for them or not. Lesseeee......"vacuum to discharge"......oh, wait I don't have a vacuum, maybe I shouldn't do this.
I do understand, I think, that as moderator you can catch a lot of flack for someone who does stupid things based on something you said. But then, that's life, you can't fix stupid. We've already devolved into the idiocracy, in my curmudgeonly opinion. :)
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
paulvzo
I do understand, I think, that as moderator you can catch a lot of flack for someone who does stupid things based on something you said. But then, that's life, you can't fix stupid. We've already devolved into the idiocracy, in my curmudgeonly opinion.
There are a number of pool forums that will accept what you said -- and much worse -- without moderator challenge. Some of those forums are actually better places for someone who wants to explore possibilities or duke it out over specific approaches.
But, when I returned to the forum in 2010, I pretty much decided that the PoolForum would focus on basic, functional and generally reliable advice for people who needed help. This inherently means excluding some tinkerers and people who have some ideas they want to try out. I allow that here, but not -- if I catch it -- out in the forum at large.
It's actually my goal to have fewer, but better posts. 90% of PoolForum's users never register, they just lurk, and it's always in MY mind, how a given thread will read to them. I think, the better I do my job, higher the 'lurker' percentage will be!
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PoolDoc
But, when I returned to the forum in 2010, I pretty much decided that the PoolForum would focus on basic, functional and generally reliable advice for people who needed help. This inherently means excluding some tinkerers and people who have some ideas they want to try out. I allow that here, but not -- if I catch it -- out in the forum at large.
It's actually my goal to have fewer, but better posts. 90% of PoolForum's users never register, they just lurk, and it's always in MY mind, how a given thread will read to them. I think, the better I do my job, higher the 'lurker' percentage will be!
Sounds like a good, logical plan Ben. Thanks for the insight.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
waterbear
Sodium percarbonate is another way to clear a badly fouled pool. It makes everything float so it is easy to scoop out and oxidized the sustpended stuff to clear the water. It does raise pH so hyou need to add acid with it to keep the pH in line.
That's an interesting one. Percarbonate is the principle ingredient in color safe bleaches. (The other principle ingredient is another old pool friend, sodium carbonate.) I remember seeing it at a chemicals store I've used for photo chems: http://www.chemistrystore.com/search...+to+Search.y=0
It sure would be a lot easier to scoop off the top than the bottom, like with alum!
Any info on dosages, downsides?
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
paulvzo
That's an interesting one. Percarbonate is the principle ingredient in color safe bleaches. (The other principle ingredient is another old pool friend, sodium carbonate.) I remember seeing it at a chemicals store I've used for photo chems:
http://www.chemistrystore.com/search...+to+Search.y=0
It sure would be a lot easier to scoop off the top than the bottom, like with alum!
Any info on dosages, downsides?
It's actually the main ingredient in oxyclean (at least the original one) and when dissolved in water forms sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxoide.l Most oxygen bleaches are also persulfates and perborates, however.
To use sodium percarbonate on a badly fouled pool (in other words, a swamp with lots of stuff on the bottom!) broadcast 10 lbs per 100O gallons with pump OFF. Immediately broadcast 3/4 lbs dry acid per 1000 gallons to keep pH in line (since the pump is off using muriatic acid is trickly as it won't disperse thoughout the water. As debris floats to the top skim it out. When debris floating to top stops run pump for 24 to 48 hours, clean filter, and vacuum if needed. If pool is not clear repeat process. Because of the amount of percarbonate and dry acid needed this is not a cheap process but is it a fast process compared to trying to clear the pool with just chlorine. Percarbonate can also be used to convert a biguanide pool to chlorine at a rate of about 5 lbs per 10 k gallons ( or 1/2 lb per 1000 gallons) and the dry acid si not needed but pH will need to be adjusted afterward when the chloirne is added once the biguanide is fully oxidized and the filter medium changed out.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
waterbear
To use sodium percarbonate on a badly fouled pool (in other words, a swamp with lots of stuff on the bottom!)
If you do this, next spring, I'd be grateful if you'd do pictures and record doses and results.
I've done something similar in the distant past, but we don't have enough info to know exactly when and how to recommend it.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
My pool stays open year round and never turns green and I am not working on other people's pools these days.
Re: Adding Borax to Make your Pool Resistant to Algae
Yeah, that's sorta my problem, too.
