Thank you pool doc!! Your the best.....

Well I had some major issues last yr and pool doc helped me immensely. I also just read this sticky and believe that was my issue last year, and well every year I open.

http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/spri...-problems.html

So I lose CYA every year. Is this from fertilizing my lawn in the early spring? [No! PoolDoc] Well anyway I stopped using chemical based lawn fertilizers and use corn gluten and all organic stuff now. Don't know if it will make a difference. Anyway 90F + here in NJ and I opened the pool...Lol. I use a net/ leaf cover only and am green every yr. ( I know I sould probably cover properly. It will save me a lot of heart aches)

Here are my pics.
http://i1225.photobucket.com.KILLED/...6-12_1346.jpg. http://i1225.photobucket.com.KILLED/...6-12_13461.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-W...16-12_1346.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-R...6-12_13461.jpg

Pool is vacuumed and skimmed. I will run filter 24/7/ ( Hmmm I think I may run on low speed though to save electric. Possibly one day on high speed will not hurt)

I forgot to adjust the pH before I added chlorine, so the pH reads high now because of this.

So that's where I am at.

Chlorine = 12 ppm.
CYA = 0. ( Added 1 lb cyanuric acid)

That's where I am at today. And thanks again for the help last yr.

Mike NJ

Oh geez!!! I re-read that link more clearly and several times through.

Uggg!! I added stabilizer. But only a small amount. 1 lb for a 6000g pool.

Anyway, yes, yes , yes pool smells after adding bleach. The first 1-1/2 gallon to bring the level to 10ppm got ate up quickly. Just tested again. Its evening and was 7.5 so added some to bring it up. Probably in the morning the the chlorine will be gone and I will adjust the PH then.

Hmm, all makes sense why my CYA kept getting ate up last yr and it took tons of bleach to clear. And a long time mind you. Could I ask is this all from letting the pool get green through the winter by not covering properly?

Anyway just here stating my status. It makes me feel better.

Mike NJ

The green is not necessarily from not covering properly--many of us never cover our pools. The green is from letting the chlorine get too low for too long, and then the bacteria in the outbreak can break all the CYA down, which is why it's gone over the winter. Unfortunately, one of the byproducts formed when this happens is ammonia, which then takes a whole LOT of chlorine to break down.

Do you shock your pool before closing in the fall? Have you tried adding polyquat (the only algaecide we really advocate here) during the closing process? Do you have a way to add bleach during the winter, even if you have to stir it around with a boat paddle or something? All of those things will help prevent the green. Also, you might want to consider opening a little earlier, before the water has a way to warm up and let algae start growing.

I only use a leaf cover for the winter. I close the pool per instructions here pretty much. It always seems to turn green though. I would say I though the leaf cover lets the sun shine in all winter and thats why it turns green. I have not used the polyquat the past few yrs. Could that be it?

This yr I used some algae stuff from the pool store that was on sale. 1 gal for $10 bucks. It was light blue and you added 1/2 cup are so. I added it throughout the winter, but it did not work. Ok so I will either

a) need to get a solid cover for next yr, or
b) do what I am doing but make sure I add polyquat only. Add some periodically I would assume.

I will need to read some more here and refresh my self with pool closing. OK, well I need to think ahead for next yr and not let this happen again.

Ugg... This sounds like its going to be a carbon copy of last yrs nightmare...

Mike NJ

OK day 1.

I went out before bed at midnight and raised the cl to 12. This morning it was at 2.5. Here is what the pool looks like. Gee almost no green and I can make out the bottom.

http://i1225.photobucket.com.KILLED/...17-12_0837.jpghttp://i1225.photobucket.com.KILLED/...7-12_08371.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b...17-12_0837.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G...7-12_08371.jpg

Ran the filter all night on low speed. So raising the cl back to 10-12 again.

I wonder if its best just to use bleach at night so not to waste it from the sun dissipating it?n [ Yes! PoolDoc ]

Mike NJ

Keep you FC at shock level as much as you can. Letting it slip sets you back.
You may want to keep your pump on low speed as it seems to be pretty large for a 16" sand filter. You wouldn't want to push the junk through your filter.

Hey you are exactly where I am at in the pool opening process. Except I cannot get my chlorine level up. How much bleach did you add and did you add it all at once or a little every night? I'll be following your thread closely as my pool is apparently in the 'ammonia eating the chlorine stage' also. And for what it's worth I used a solid cover, super shocked & super chlorinated it at closing, and still had green, so don't feel too bad!

Sunlove,

What I am doing know is keeping my chlorine level at about 12ppm. I have a taylor 1515 kit so I am able to test the high shock levels.

Taylor K-1515 @ Amazon

I test every two hours or so. I lose about 4 ppm or so in that time. So I use the bleach calculator thats on this site somewhere to tell me how much to add to bring back to shock level. I add throughout the day every two hours. For my small pool it seems I have been adding about 3/4 of a gallon every two hours to get me back to 10-12 ppm.

That's what I have been doing. It cleared somewhat more today but still cloudy. The green is almost gone and looks white or blue somewhat. But last year I had the cloud for a month or so I believe.

I over shocked last year and the metals came out and stained my liner. Search my posts from last year and you will see what I am talking about. I even need to go back and re-read my old posts. Sitting here thinking about it I may think the pool doc had me raise the shock level to 15. But I cant be sure until I re read. I have a lot of patience so I am in no rush. If I do this methodically I think I will benefit better. Also my pump/filter has been running on low 24/7.

Mike NJ

Sunlove,

In a 7500 gallon pool, each 1 cup of 6% bleach will raise your FC by 1 ppm. Each gallon will raise it by 8 ppm. You can use these as a guide to figure out how much to add. The key is to add enough to get to shock level (dependent on your CYA--see the best guess chlorine chart linked in my sig) and then test and add more as needed to get back up to that level until the pool clears. The more consistent you are about maintaining the shock level, the faster it will happen.

Well Looks like I am on the same path as last year. I guess I am doing correct by checking every 2 hours and adding bleach to keep my levels at or above shock. [ Not necessary -- 1 or 2x per day is enough - PoolDoc ]

I have the filter going on low 24/7. I vacuumed again today with the sand filter. I got very little. The pool is clean but cloudy. I then disconnected the sand filter and installed the cart, and am now running cart only on low.

I am know raising my shock level to 15ppm. No higher. Since this year I have the kit to test this high, I wont be guessing. Last year I shocked too high and cause the iron to stain the liner. Thanks to Ben/pool doc that pink stuff worked.

Anyway that's where I am at now. I guess this is day two. I started on the 16th in the pm. So tonight will be a whole 48 hours. Note: As I type this now I have currently used 10 gallons of bleach and nothing else. ( except that 1 lb of CYA)

Here are current pics:
http://i1225.photobucket.com.KILLED/...18-12_1119.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-v...18-12_1119.jpg

Mike NJ

Just checking in. Pool looks the same as in last pics. "CLOUDY" blue!!!! Added bleach to 15ppm or so levels last night. This morning 11.5ppm. Pump running 24/7.

Hope this helps folks here. I guess it will give people a time frame of how long it will take a cloudy pool to clear up. I am being very diligent in keeping shock levels up, and have been for the past few days. I started this shock process on 4/16 in the PM. So tonight will be a complete 3rd day

Just re read my thread from last year and basically I am doing the same thing as last year. Although since I have the 1515 test kit I can more accurately add the proper amount of bleach. And hopefully not bring the metals out this year and stain the liner.

We will see.

Mike NJ

So shock levels seem to be staying up and not dropping much. Just a few ppm. 3-4ppm throughout the day. Although its been cloudy weather and no sun. Possibly this may mean I am at some break point and the pool may clear up. Its still in the same state as my last pic. Cloudy, white/blue milk....LOL

Keeping shock levels to 15ppm. Just tested and was 12ppm. Raised it back to 15ppm. Did this only twice today. This morning, and just now this PM.

Wish me luck... ( If I did not have bad luck I would have no luck at all !!!!!)

Mike NJ

Sounds like you're making progress. How much chlorine are you losing between dusk and dawn?

With a sand filter, you could use the DE trick that the other mods do--they use just enough DE to make the pressure rise by 1# and put it into the skimmer to coat the sand. This will allow the sand filter to pick up smaller particles. If you decide to do this, check after you add it to make sure it's not coming back into the pool via the returns--if that's happening, then you may need to investigate the filter a little further.

Janet

Janet I am not using the sand filter. That I only use to vacuum the leaves and bottom after opining. Once I get the crude out I run the cart only. This prolongs the life of my cart.

The other reason is during heavy clean up the cart would need to be cleaned very often. The sand filter makes it easier because I just backwash for a minute then go back to vacuuming. The cart I would have to break the filter down, hose it off, re prime the pump, etc... A pain in the arse really.

I will post my Cl loss tomorrow. Like I said its not losing much now but its not clearing up yet either.

Mike NJ

So this morning CL level was 12ppm from 15ppm for a overnight lose. Raised it back to 15 ppm. I will test again noon'ish Not much loss and this is where I am at.

Pool is still cloudy white.

Mike NJ

Keep shocking until you can go from sundown one evening until within two hours of sunup the next morning without losing more than 1ppm of chlorine and you don't have more than 0.5CC. And, then, for added insurance, Id keep it at shock level for one additional day. Also, keep running the pump 24/7.

OK so I set the shock level to exactly 15 ppm last night, and I awoke this morning with a 10 ppm. So I am still fighting something. Like I said its a carbon copy of last year. I am chugging along....LOL

Pool still milky white cloudy. Same as my last pic I posted. Filter has been running low with the cart 24/7.

I am testing my levels of P.O.P....LOL It's day 4 of my cleaning process. I believe last year took two weeks, but I was a yo-yo with the shock levels. This year I am staying very consistent.

Mike NJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawrosa

I am testing my levels of P.O.P....LOL

This year I am staying very consistent.

---

Those are the two most important ingredients -- POP and consistency! Keep at it.

So I am still adding cl. Dropped to 10 in sun today. That was a 5 ppm drop. Did this twice today. once in the afternoon and tonight. I have not let it drop below 10ppm so far.

Raised it to 15 again this pm for overnight. I checked the CC and it was only 1 ppm. Is this normal if you're fighting something? Seems low for the pool in the fact that its still cloudy.

OK any suggestions I am all ears........ I will continue to do what I am doing. Out to get more bleach tomorrow. I believe I been through 18 gallons so far. $1.59 a gallon.

Mike NJ

Depending on your CYA level, a 5 ppm drop is not unreasonable for a sunny day. That's why you measure just the chlorine lost at night when you're trying to see if you're still battling something in the water. Also, it is not unusual for the CC to only be 1 ppm--CC is removed by chlorine, but also by sunlight, which is also why we recommend you test at night and then early in the morning to see what's actually happening in your pool. Hang in there!!

Janet

I don't think I have any CYA in the pool. According to this link this is my issue. All the cya got eaten up. http://www.poolsolutions.com/gd/spri...-problems.html Anyway been 5 days today with a cloudy pool...Uggg.

Mike NJ

If your CYA is zero, then a 5 ppm loss of chlorine during the day is not bad. All you can do is keep shocking until you know for sure that you've overcome whatever is creating the demand, and then filter the dead stuff out. Is your cartridge filter catching anything obvious?

Janet

Hi Lawrosa. Big Dave and I both live in NJ so we face the same problems you do. We have had an unusually warm winter and mild spring so spring algae starts early. A few years ago when we were having som brutal winters the ice in my pool would be over a foot thick! Not this year! In those years it would be barely melted when I would start my opening in April and I would only have debris, no algae. Yesterday I open to a green pool, though not as green as yours. I shock my pool twice at the end of the season, first to get it really clean, then I add a quart of polyquat which drives the FC down, then 48 hours later shock it u p again and close.

If your pool is now blue and cloudy, it is mostly dead algae and other junk, not stuf you have to kill...but keep maintaining your FC. Something is not filtering right. Try adding a skimmer sock to your skimmer. It filters amazing amounts of junk out. Skimmer Sock is a brand but there are others.

If you are using the sand filter for the gross cleanup, you can try the DE trick to allow the sand to filter better. A 10# box lasts me years. If you are usung a cart it should be able to handle the quantity of stuff suspended in your water, only requiring cleaning when it is clear.

From pm to am I went from 15ppm to 12.5 ppm. Still cloudy water. Filtering with cart on low 24/7 still. Pressure not rising any. Filter not catching anything. Is there anything else I should try or test?

Mike NJ

How's your return flow? How's your filter? Is the cartridge OK? Maybe your pressure guage is busted? Just gusses.

Cart new from last year. Unicel Return flow is good. No issues. That filter should turn the water over in two hours on high. Pressure gauge new. Starting pressure 14 psi. On low it 5 psi.

I have been running on low speed all 5 days. Here and there I will run on high a couple hours. [ Do NOT do this! You are likely blowing dirt THROUGH the filter! PoolDoc ]

Mike NJ

It sounds to me like your filter isn't working efficiently enough. There are some cartridge filters you can use the DE with, and some that you can't. I'll try to do some forum searching and find the discussion I saw recently on that. In the meantime, how hard would it be to switch back over to the sand filter that you CAN add DE to and see if that does a better job?

Janet

Does not take much effort to put the sand filter back on line. I thought the cart was better then the sand with the DE.

Mike NJ

DE will give the finest filtration. A little DE on your sand may be eaiser than the cart because you can backwsh the sand filter. Check the condition of the and before you return it to service.

I had the same problem last year. I have been following Ben's suggestion from last year as in post #25 here. The only thing I am running the cart only.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...-stinks./page3

Mike NJ

The DE will filter smaller particles than the cartridge. As I said in my earlier post, some cartridges can be used with DE but I can't find the discussion I'm looking for at the moment. I know that sand can be.

Janet

Yes but the pool smells and is releasing some gas as described in Ben's ammonia sticky for cloudy pools. It will not filter unless I kill what's pooping in there as Ben describes.

Do you all agree with this? You all think it's filtering issues?

Mike NJ

No, it is not totally a filter issue. As long as you are losing more than 1 ppm of chlorine overnight, something is going on. You may have filter issues as well, but there is something consuming the chlorine. Keep shocking.

Hey lawrosa, just wanted to let you know it took me 5 days of bleach every evening until I got the water to be noticeably clearer. I can finally see the bottom and my cl is now holding. Hopefully you are almost there!! I got that funky chlorine smell 2 days before the "break through" happened.

It's important to remember, when you're cleaning a swamp, that you need to brush your pool (even if you can't see the bottom) to expose any algae and algae piles to the chemicals. Just remember to have high levels of chlorine when you do so, so the exposed algae can't suddenly take over the pool.

OK.

So It rained last night pretty hard. Went out to check Cl levels.

Cl 12 from a 16 last night ( raised to 16)

Vacuumed and brushed sides.

I noticed I can see the hose down to the bottom of the pool. Cannot see the vacuum head though. So I would say I am clearing up.

Now here is the question that someone that knows these things can answer. Last year my pool had the same situation. The funny thing is last year it cleared up after a rain. Odd huh?

The only thing I can think is the rain drops raised the PH with the splashing and aeration? But would the rain of been acidic and countered that? I don't think is was a dilution factor, since it only raise the level of the water 3-4".

Anyway I cleaned the cart and am running on high speed, plus continuing to keep at shock levels.

I am also wondering after I test my CYA when the pool clears, when will it be OK to add it? I don't want to revert back to a cloudy pool. I think the answer will be when the Cl holds overnight and a .5 or less of CC.

Sound right?

Thanks all for your time so far. You guys are great.

Mike NJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawrosa

Cl 12 from a 16 last night ( raised to 16)
. . . .
The funny thing is last year it cleared up after a rain. Odd huh?

---

Probably just a coincidence.

Quote:

---

I am also wondering after I test my CYA when the pool clears, when will it be OK to add it? I don't want to revert back to a cloudy pool. I think the answer will be when the Cl holds overnight and a .5 or less of CC.

---

Yeah, you can start adding CYA, once you can hold chlorine levels overnight.

It will be two weeks today and still cloudy, but clearing. It's very slow. I can see the head of the vacuum now but still cloudy. I have been through exactly 34 gallons of bleach as of this morning for a 6k gallon pool. That is keeping the pool at shock levels for the whole two weeks.

I am posting this so that it may help others. Am I doing the right thing? IDK. I guess I am getting there right???.....LOL

Mike NJ

I haven't seen complete test results, so I'm not really sure if you are making the progress you should.

Regarding filtering, if your filter is not stopping up pretty rapidly, I'd switch to the cartridge . . . and run on low, 24/7.

We're also seeing some filtering problems due to crummy cartridge filters. Apparently OEM, Unicel, and Filbur cartridges are OK. Pleatco, no name Chinese, and private label -- not so much. In some cases, Unicel actually MAKES the OEM cartridge . . . and sells the same cartridge under its own name for less.

This site:
haywardcartridges.com/hayward-cartridges/cx1100re-hayward-cartridge
offers a super deal -- the retail price is below my wholesaler's cost! But, I'm very, very skeptical. The more I dig into this, the more evidence I'm finding of cartridges being sold that aren't what they seem to claim . . . and you have to look VERY hard to find the weasel words or disclaimers.

I'm pretty sure this IS a genuine Unicel:

Unicel C-8610 Replacement Filter Cartridge for 100 Square Foot Hayward CX1100RE @ Amazon

If it won't bust your budget, you might want to go ahead and get one, and put it in. If it does no better, well now you've got a spare cartridge. But, if it DOES clean better, you know that at least part of the problem is that your "Unicel" cartridge wasn't really one.

One other issue: if you pull your existing cartridge, and the pleats have collapsed against each other, do NOT put a new cartridge in, until you've made sure that you won't be over-pressuring it. High pressure (>10 psi change from clean pressure) can collapse the pleats and turn a 100sft cartridge into a bad 20sft cartridge! A single overpressure run can essentially destroy a cartridge. You'd be better to clean at 5 - 6 psi change; your cartridge will last longer.

In your situation, you almost certainly will NOT over-pressure a cartridge, while running on low!

OK Ben here is what I got.

TC 15
CC 0 ( I just tested this today and thats what I got. 5 drops of the oo3 reagent did not make the 10ml sample turn pink. Stayed clear)
PH 7.5
Alk 40 ( First time I checked it today. Added about 70 oz by measure of baking soda today to raise.)
CYA 30. ( I am guilty of adding CYA when I opened to get this 30ppm. So that may have added to my issue but its at 30.)
Hardness 17.1 ppm. ( I test this with the Hach 5b total hardness test kit I use to test my well water hardness. Its powder based.)

I have been running two filters in series on low speed. Cart first then sand. The cart filter is a new unicel from purchase last year from amazon. The sand is newer also. I am not really catching anything. The pressure rose 1/2 psi to 1 psi maybe.

I am using K mart brand 6% bleach or pathmark food store 5.25% This is the k mart. The one I got has 33% more for free and is 128 fl oz.

$1.66 gallon. I bought the whole shelf.
http://i1225.photobucket.com.KILLED/...30-12_1415.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V...30-12_1415.jpg

Its blurry but says 6%
http://i1225.photobucket.com.KILLED/...0-12_14151.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i...0-12_14151.jpg

The pathmark home basics stuff has no percentage and is always $1.65. I assume its 5.25% from what my tests show on Cl levels.
http://i1225.photobucket.com.KILLED/...30-12_1416.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z...30-12_1416.jpg

Let me know what other info you need.

Mike NJ