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Natural Swimming Pool Photo Gallery
I'm getting tired of all the "natural" pool stuff that we end up answering questions about.
So I thought I'd create this thread to show folks that there ARE such things as real natural pools, but that they don't involve devices from "EcoSmarte" or "Eco-matic" or "Caribbean Clearwater", or chemicals from "ChlorFree" or "PristineBlue". (Somebody needs to give those guys a lesson in basic chemistry: ozone, electrolytically generated copper and silver ions, copper sulfate blends, and SWCGs are ALL non-natural technology driven -- even bad technology is STILL not Mother Nature -- chemicals or chemical producers!)
And -- for the record -- I have always thought, and said, that copper/silver ionization seemed to make sense to me, for recirculating bodies of water, like fountains, that didn't have people and people goo in them, but did need to stay algae and bacteria free.
But, none of those devices, chemicals, technologies, or what-not are part of true natural pools. So I thought I'd create a thread, and ultimately some web pages to show you what a true natural pool is.
The genuine 'natural' pools are NOT sanitized or disinfected, but are heavily filtered and mostly clean, in the same way that a beaver-free mountain stream is mostly clean. Some, but not all, do use UV lamps on water returning to the swimming area. Many, but not all, involve a sort of a swamp on one side of the pool, that cleans up pool water the same way real swamps clean up river water. I think all involve some sort of bio-reactor where 'good' bacteria are encouraged to grow, and digest various pool and people 'goo', and get rid of 'bad' bacteria.
There was a pretty good article in the NY Times a few years ago, on this topic. It's still available here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/05/ga...pagewanted=all
And, the wikipedia article is not bad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_pool
The two most interesting sites I found, for natural pool vendors were these:
http://www.clear-water-revival.com/, in England
http://www.biotop-natural-pool.com based in Germany, but with a US distributor. The first three pictures below are all from their site.
I snarfed pictures from their websites, to use in this thread. I don't have permission, but I'm guessing they won't mind, since I'm 'promoting' their products. Both companies seem to have produced some amazingly beautiful pools.
But . . . natural pools are a different beast. Beautiful or not, they tend to be green, rather high maintenance, and VERY expensive. For a variety of reasons, they are not for everyone. And, I'd be VERY reluctant to get into a public natural pool, if anyone else was there. Apparently, there are some in Germany. But I haven't seen any research that looks at whether they offer a safe way to swim, when the guy next to me may be a carrier for something I really, really don't want. It might only be a norovirus (makes you leak at both ends), but some forms of hepatitis and worse can be transmitted via water . . . and I want some good old chlorine, and plenty of it, between me and the next guy, when I'm in a public pool!
Still, if I had an unlimited budget, and could afford a good pool man -- who was NOT me -- I'd definitely look closely at one of these pools for my personal use! My wife and younger son thought so, too. But when he saw the third picture below, my son noted that it looked like it was in an area where, like Vermont, the seasons are winter, July, and August. Maybe there's staff at that house or castle, that would serve me morning coffee by the pool. I think I'd enjoy that. I might even be able to afford Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee, if I owned that h-astle and pool. Sitting by a pool like that at 7am, with a cup and a small pot of Blue Mountain coffee . . . and a book NOT about pools -- I think I'd enjoy that!
I did have to laugh at an headline I found in a Hanley Woods homebuilder's trade rag (http://www.customhomeonline.com/gree...next-wave.aspx). Here's the quote that cracked me up: "The newest pools are awash in bacteria-eating microbes, not chlorine." Put into a little more clearly, that sentence reads, "The newest pools are awash in bacteria-eating bacteria, not chlorine.".
Yep, folks, we're getting rid of all the bacteria, by adding bazillions more bacteria! Of course the added bacteria, are better than the other bacteria. I mean, the bacteria added by people are better than the . . . Wait, I mean the bacteria added by the pool builder people are better than the bacteria added by the swimming in the water people.
Uhm, really.
Anyhow, here are some very cool pics from Bio-Top:
http://www.swimming-teich.com/images...he/dfk_005.jpg
http://www.swimming-teich.com/images...teiche/063.jpg
http://www.swimming-teich.com/images...teiche/036.jpg
More later . . .
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Re: Natural Pools Gallery
my biggest concern with a "natural pool" would be the "brain eating amoeba", Naegleria fowleri, that exists in warm bodies of water such are found in Florida, Texas, and other subtroipcal to tropical areas. It has also been found in unchlorinated swimming pools!
Most of the cases in the US reported to the CDC have occurred in southern states like Florida, Texas and Louisiana and most have occurred by people swimming in lakes but there is a case in Orlando where a young man died after contracting it at a Water Park Orlando Watersports Complex)!
Natural pools depend on the same types of bacterial and plant based biopurification processes that lakes do so I would be very cautious about their REAL safety!
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Re: Natural Pools Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by
waterbear
my biggest concern with a "natural pool" would be the "brain eating amoeba", Naegleria fowleri, that exists in warm bodies of water such are found in Florida, Texas, and other subtroipcal to tropical areas. It has also been found in unchlorinated swimming pools!
Most of the cases in the US reported to the CDC have occurred in southern states like Florida, Texas and Louisiana and most have occurred by people swimming in lakes but there is a case in Orlando where a young man died after contracting it at a Water Park Orlando Watersports Complex)!
Natural pools depend on the same types of bacterial and plant based biopurification processes that lakes do so I would be very cautious about their REAL safety!
The Wikipedia article pooldoc linked discussed the importance of keeping a natural pool temp below 82f in order for the good bacteria to stay on top of the bad ones. I bet in FL, it's pretty hard to keep a natural pool below 82f in summer. I know my chlorine pool gets into the 90's on it's own... Heck, I saw 78f (water temp) last week and it's still February!
I'm guessing that's part of the reason they are so much more popular in EU.
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I think the risk of the natural pools would be very close to the risk of high quality natural waters in that climate. And, the risk of those waters is not zero. Obviously, these pools are NOT sanitized.
But, a much greater risk than Naegleria would be person to person transmission of things like various viral infections, including hepatitis. Actually, in collecting research articles for SwimmingPoolResearch.com, I have discovered that spa or pool transmission of hepatitis, herpes and HIV have apparently never been ruled out. So, in using a natural pool, my biggest concern would be the health of those I was swimming with.
It makes me wonder how natural public pools could be justified, for high density bather loads. I have NOT seen any research on pathogens present in such pools, which does NOT reassure me.
Kelemvor, the pools I found seemed to be mostly in the UK or northern Europe, so they aren't dealing with South Beach or Louisiana-like climates. Before I'd put one in Florida, I'd want to see a few OTHER PEOPLE'S natural pools that had been operated successfully for 5+ years.
But . . . those those pools, and some others I'm going to post, are really beautiful. So . . . if it was just me and my wife, we'd love them!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
PoolDoc
But . . . those those pools, and some others I'm going to post, are really beautiful. So . . . if it was just me and my wife, we'd love them!
The ones you've posted so far are absolutely stunning! Type of thing I'd expect to see on "lifestyles of the rich and famous".
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And, just for comparison, here's Susan's and my preferred local natural pool:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-P.../my-pool-1.jpg
But, since it takes a boat, followed by a 1 mile hike up a very rocky stream bed to reach, it's a little less convenient than the others. But, Kelemvor, this particular pool does have the benefit of being available to those who are neither famous nor rich, like Susan and I!
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You forgot the part about ......... along the trails where the snakes and spiders are and other critters are! :eek:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Watermom
You forgot the part about ......... along the trails where the snakes and spiders are and other critters are!
Watermom, you know me better than that: for me, those things are FEATURES, not problems. Even Susan finds them interesting, as long as they aren't venomous snakes, and as long as the spiders aren't ON her. (She'll even make an exception to that, if the spiders are jumping spiders!)
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I dunno--some of the pics you've posted are absolutely beautiful--but if they were down here they'd also be full of snakes and bullfrogs.....I have a pool in order to NOT have to guess what I'm swimming with!! :)
Jan
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Hmm-mm. There may be a reason why "natural pools" are mostly a European thing: they killed off most of their wildlife centuries ago, so their natural pools may not acquire the sort of competing population green pools here, do.
Actually, I've been thinking about that a bit. My PERSONAL collection of critters found in pools include: black snake, ring-neck snake, garter snake, Eastern water snake, Canada geese, mallard ducks, rats, mice, shrews, bullfrogs, leopard frogs, toe biters, tiger salamanders, chipmunks, and black widow spiders.
The things I recall forum members reporting, during the various incarnations of the PoolForum include deer, black bear, skunks, in addition to the things above.
However, if you put one of those pools in this area of the south-east, you'd be able to add: great blue heron, little green heron, water bugs galore, every kind of frog known to man, and . . . and snapping turtles.
Even I try to avoid swimming with those things!
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Yeah, we have a ton of snapping turtles too-- but what is a "toe biter"??
Jan
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A giant water bug: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9...ntwaterbug.jpg
If you want to know more, this blog has an interesting account: http://somethingscrawlinginmyhair.co...ant-water-bug/
Also, here: http://nathistoc.bio.uci.edu/hemipt/Toebiter.htm , and here: http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol4...rus/letho.html
Like many types of water bugs, they can fly. So, if you have a hospitable body of water, they are likely to visit. Many water bugs can bite or sting, but bugs are notable for the high level of pain they can inflict.
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Yeah, those pools are beautiful but I'd have a hard time enjoying myself in a pool where I couldn't see what else might be in there with me. I don't even get in my own pool at night unless I first shine a flashlight down in there or light the torches to make sure I won't have any 'company'! As Ben knows, I'm not 'zactly' a critter type of gal!
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I notice several of them clearly have water vegetation the way a pond or stream that's safe to swim in has. I'm guessing they act as natural filters the way they do in the wild. Plus, only those of us in Northern climes would, I guess, match the European ponds and streams, but .... you couldn't tell this winter. There is a house near where I grew up that had a natural swimming pool...a stream ran into a pond and from the pond into the pool. But by the early 1960's the pool had been long ago closed and was full of the usual detritus--branches, tree limbs, leaves. I guess it was from early in the 20th century. Satellite photos show that it was filled in, but I haven't been by there in a couple of years...and haven't looked at the property since the early 70's. I have no idea if it actually worked as a pool when it was new.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
CarlD
I notice several of them clearly have water vegetation the way a pond or stream that's safe to swim in has. I'm guessing they act as natural filters the way they do in the wild. .
Yeah, my koi pond does too, but I'm not getting in it either! :eek: :eek:
Jan
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I've been looking for water quality information on such pools, and finally found some:
Natural Swimming Pools in Lower Saxony
Ernst-August Heinemeyer, Health Authority of Lower Saxony, Aurich, Germany
Experience with a „natural tropic pool”
Christiane Höller and Schindler P., Bavarian Health and Food Safety Authority, Germany
A Model for Risk Assessment for Small-scale Bathing Ponds
Franz Mascher1, Pichler-Semmelrock P.2, Reinthaler F.1, and Marth E.1, 1Institute of Hygiene, Medical-University, Graz; 2Federal Government of Steiermark, Austria
A quote from the first article is sufficient to show that such pools are not 'home-free' when it comes to sanitation:
Quote:
Amounts of P. aeruginosa exceeding the limits were detected in almost every natural swimming pool, in some pools on a regular basis
All articles have been archived at Swimming Pool Research, so if the links die, I can restore them.
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No surprise here as far as I am concerned.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
aylad
I dunno--some of the pics you've posted are absolutely beautiful--but if they were down here they'd also be full of snakes and bullfrogs.....I have a pool in order to NOT have to guess what I'm swimming with!! :)
Jan
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Watermom
Yeah, those pools are beautiful but I'd have a hard time enjoying myself in a pool where I couldn't see what else might be in there with me. I don't even get in my own pool at night unless I first shine a flashlight down in there or light the torches to make sure I won't have any 'company'! As Ben knows, I'm not 'zactly' a critter type of gal!
Same here. For some reason spiders love to get in our pool at night. If I want to get in at night I have to turn on the light first and scoop them out, and while I'm in there I'm constantly scanning the surface for more. Not exactly very relaxing.
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Maybe, we need to collect and send you some Phidippus audax jumping spiders, so you can do aversion therapy with them. We think they're kinda cute, and their behaviour and intelligence is amazing. We've been handling them for years, and have never been bitten, even though they reportedly have a pretty hefty bite, and definitely have some impressive fangs. This is a good video (DON'T LOOK, WaterMom!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1560DOYU_AY
We had a much larger one on the kitchen table 2 weeks ago -- it was fun to give it a fly, watch it pounce, and then carry the fly around like a cat with a mouse. (Of course, cats don't leave mice completely desiccated when they're done with the mice -- wish they did!). But we let it go, so I can't include a picture.
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Growing up - that was pretty much all we had access to. In ground or above ground pools were almost unheard of in the area (unless you went to one of the big athletic centers). Lakes and private swimming holes were the place to be. While you definately have a set of concerns to deal with that are different than those in a chemically controlled pool, I wouldn't be very worried, as long as the water was clear enough to see the bottom (to avoid unwelcome guests like snapping turtles or gators on the southern side of things.
A few years back, my wife brought home a magazine that had an article on the subject (think she bought it for a recipe or something along those lines):
http://www.grit.com/Tools/Build-Your...ming-Hole.aspx
The end of the article there is a link to a British company who deals with natural swimming pools. They might have additional data regarding the safety concerns. Either way, they have a lot of pictures.
Was an interesting read and we ended up turning a segment of our pond into a dedicated swimming area. The pond itself was part of a garden with koi in the wild part and a filtration system to match their needs. We had the water tested with the SD Ag Extension office and it came back clean for the usual suspects. In most actual controlled environments the amoebas are almost unheard of (they don't swim well - so they like really stagnant and dark waters). Other bacteria are apparently also dealt with by exposure to sun and aeration (so you are better off shallow than deep).
Anywho, wasn't what I cam here for - but when I was looking for different ideas on dressing up the concrete and vinyl swimming pool, I stumbled on this thread.
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Yowza. Those pools are lovely to look at, but I wouldn't let my family swim in them.
We prefer our water 100% free of life forms that are not us. :)
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Hi all, We are getting closer to starting our swim pond/aquaculture project. We hope to plant some nice edibles amongst the water lilies and plan on putting in taro, and rice along with other usual water filtering reeds and such. I really like the above link to grit build your own. One thing we will do differently is instead of soil as a substrate for the plants: we are going to use washed gravel. (Not sure yet just how I'm gonna wash all that gravel...) The idea is to get the plants to keep the water pretty nutrient free to prevent algae.
I also agree with people about the concerns over catching things from fellow swimmers... but it's at our house. AND I was So bummed out the other day, I took my 2 toddlers to the beach, and the sewer afew miles away must've had a spill... anyway there were hundreds of thousands of human excrements all over the beach and floating in the seaweed. It took us a minute to really register what it was. Then we got outa there. It has really spurred me on to get our home entertainment sorted out. Talk about pathogens, it was like swimming in a public porta potty.
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Somehow, my idea of a natural pool involves saltwater, waves, tides and sand, of the beach, rather than filter variety!
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Excellent photos but not everyone in the UK & Europe embraces the pond idea, just like most of you there are concerns, I certainly have some.
The filtration uses several different parts where nutrients are removed from the water, either phosphates or nitrates and then planting of types that tolerate the water with which option has been chosen. Biological filters are used and just like a reed toilet system by example the bacteria are broken down, they work so ponds can work, do they work quickly enough for a public pool not sure. I know there is a new filter in development for one of the companies (Clear water revival) which they think they will have all the answers.
I really wonder if it's the natural settings that people really like rather than the formal pools. From the photos they seem to loose something when they are formal swimming pools albeit great designs. Is it really the lack of chlorine people want? or just a more natural setting?
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You probably realize that 'environmentalism' is essentially a substitute-religion for a lot of people today, and being 'natural' is a form of religious expression for them. Careful analysis of the facts tends not to be an important part of how many people approach their religion.
What evidence I've been able to find suggest that these natural pools are not nearly as safe as chlorine pools, especially as the bather load increases. But "more risk" does NOT equal "much risk" -- a distinction that eludes even many educated people.
But my guess is the risk is still pretty low for these pools, if they aren't used commercially. After all, my family's (and my own) PERSONAL preference is swimming in the ocean, which is more risky than either these natural pools or chlorinated pools, not just from infection, but from the OTHER wildlife or from physical hazards.
Many discussions of health risk today ignore that the MAJOR avoidable risks for most people are things like over-eating, not enough exercise, cigarettes, and poor medical treatment, including nosocomial infections. Infections transmitted in pools, or chemical risks from pool treatment are MINOR risks by comparison.
The higher risk SERIOUS events around pools, including drownings, slips & falls, electrocution, diving injuries, etc. rather than chemical or infection events.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Teapot
...(Clear water revival)...
Creedence, I love Creedence. There's plenty of natural swimming Down on the Bayou. ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigDave
Creedence, I love Creedence. There's plenty of natural swimming Down on the Bayou. ;)
Nice, BigDave. did you catch my comment here: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...221#post116221
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I did. Smoke on the Water was stuck in my head until I changed to CCR - lasted the rest of the day.
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A while back I started a thread Natural Swimming Pools (NSPs) where I analyzed the theoretical risk using the standards for such pools compared to EPA and DIN 19643 standards. The basic tradeoff for such pools is increasing the risk of ill swimmers from virtually nil to 7-10 per 1000 per season. However, as the links in Ben's earlier post in this thread show, even these looser biological standards aren't being consistently met, especially for Pseudomonas aeruginosa found in 27-28% of measured samples in 43% of pools and even with Legionella found in 3 out of 4 samples in an indoor pool. The mere presence of bacteria exceeding limits does not mean there will be associated disease, but the risk becomes higher.
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One of the questions I've had about these pools was whether they'd actually be used, after being built. I've seen an awful lot of pool equipment turned off or abandoned after owners or users found it too expensive, too complicated or too unreliable to use. Those experiences have made me wonder about these pools. I can find accounts of people BUILDING these pools, but no accounts or photos of people USING them after they were built.
Most of the natural pool + people photos seem to be pro-shots, posted with models, like these:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-u...R-FOTO-001.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-s...R-FOTO-004.jpg
I could accept that both shots above reflect actual use. But not so much with this next one, which I find funny, though I doubt the photographer intended that effect:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8...R-FOTO-005.jpg
Every time I look that that photo, in my mind I hear the model asking, "Can I get out of here, now? Please!". I also know what happens to white or light swimsuits when they brush up against algae covered surfaces. You can be sure that a wardrobe change was needed before additional shots were taken!
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These photos, even though they were posed, seem more realistic. The next one was a posed shot of the owners of a "Bio-Top" pool:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d...gsplatz_02.jpg
I'm not sure of the status of these photos, but unless the water was too cold, they seem realistic enough to me. I've seen my own children, and nieces and nephews acting just like this:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y...tural-Pool.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g...hotels_005.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I...R-FOTO-014.jpg
I'm pretty sure this one's realistic too . . . but I doubt its the image the natural pool companies want to portray:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...immteich-3.jpg
