Hayward Super Pump problem

Hey guys, I'm new to the site. Thanks for taking the time to read. Over the weekend I replaced the motor on my Super Pump and went ahead and replaced both pump shaft seals. I was careful to make sure the proper sides of the seals matched up. (The plastic part for the shaft meeting the ceramic part that goes in the plate.) After getting it all up and running for a day with no problems, I now have a leak coming from under the pump. It didn't leak before replacing the motor. Not sure what to do next. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Randy

It's hard to tell without looking. It could be either a shaft seal -- you have to be really careful not to scratch the carbon face,or get grit between the carbon and the ceramic during assembly, or the gasket whether the carbon seal goes on the motor shaft (slid on smoothly, no shaft roughness or dirt -- OR some of the pump rubber.

It's good practice, when rebuilding a pump to replace the seal AND all the casing rubber -- O-rings, gaskets, etc. Use OEM rubber too. I've always gotten unpredictable results from aftermarket rubber parts.

Welcome to the Forum!

If you did the seal assembly (SP1600 Z 1) correctly, as Ben said, take a look at the SP 1600 T housing gasket - yours probably looks like a "T" - it should look like an "l".

It's only taking 4 bolts out and reinstalling them to check it - it's well worth the time to check and replace the housing gasket.

Okey doke....getting highly aggrivated now! Went home yesterday and pulled pump/motor apart again. I build car motors for a hobby, so doing clean work is something I'm used to doing. I pulled everything apart on the bench and cleaned everything. Once again making sure I didn't touch the seals. I replaced ALL of the seals and gaskets in the whole pump. Put it all back together and it still leaking water. Now I'm baffled. I do think I was sold aftermarket seals....maybe the cause??? I'm close to just buying a new pump but wish I would have done that before I bought the new motor. The unit is pretty old, I believe it was installed in 92-93 sometime. Thoughts?? Thanks guys!!

Sorry you're having this problem - I know how frustrating it is to do everything right and still end up with a drip or leak!

Any chance that the mounting or sealing plate is cracked? (sorry, that's the last thing I can think of)

Please keep us informed as to your progress with this (we really do care about you and your pool :))

[edit] did you put the rubber side of the 1600- Z -1 into the sealing plate? ( I have had a couple pool owners install the ceramic side towards the motor, and it leaked within 1 day - I mean NO offense with this question, but I've seen it happen) [/edit]

Ted's already said what I would have . . . and thought of something that never occurred to me.

The only think I can add is: "think it through!".

By this I mean, look at the pump, and the pieces, and mentally work through all the possible paths water could take, and end up where ever you are seeing it end up. If you build motors, you can almost certainly do the visualization required to do what I'm suggesting. Once you've thought through all the possible paths, go back and look at the pump and pieces again, and check each with the understanding in view of HOW it would have to fail to produce the results you are seeing.

Be particularly careful to make sure you clearly understand how each seal, and especially the pump seal, works . . . then you can understand how it would have to fail to do what it's doing, and THEN you'll know where to look to find the failure.

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Originally Posted by waste

Sorry you're having this problem - I know how frustrating it is to do everything right and still end up with a drip or leak!

Any chance that the mounting or sealing plate is cracked? (sorry, that's the last thing I can think of)

Please keep us informed as to your progress with this (we really do care about you and your pool :))

[edit] did you put the rubber side of the 1600- Z -1 into the sealing plate? ( I have had a couple pool owners install the ceramic side towards the motor, and it leaked within 1 day - I mean NO offense with this question, but I've seen it happen) [/edit]

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Trust me, no offense taken what so ever. My explaining about building car engines was just to give you all a baseline as to my basic mechanical experience and in no way do I think I know what the heck is going on with these things. So I view no advice as too insignificant. Yes, I did install the ceramic side up and away from the motor, so that you see the ceramic as you are assembling everything. The impeller seal was installed so that the rubber side meets up with the ceramic side of the other seal. My mechanical experience tells me something is worn out and the tolerances are just too much to seal but as stated before, I'm so new at this, I feel like it's likely I could be wrong. The last time I pulled everything apart, I layed everything out on the rubber mat on the bench and inspected each piece and cleaned all of the surfaces and then assembled the whole thing very carefully. I made sure to tighten the pump in a crossing pattern to ensure a clean and flush torque of the plate. I really did everything I could think of to make sure I didn't have another leak.....so I'm pretty baffled. At what point do you throw in the towel and replace the pump part? I thought I saw that there was a replacement part that includes the whole pump from motor to (the top piece that slides in the box) sorry for lack of termonology. Thanks again for the responses guys. I told the wife I was renting a bulldozer this afternoon and filling it with dirt. The rest of the story is that the pool house had a pipe freeze and burst over the winter and by the time I found it I had to rip out the floor, one wall, all the plumbing.....so I'm still yet to get the pool open....when I got everything put back together was when I found the motor to be shot....so it's been a nightmare this year. Thanks again!!

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

Ted's already said what I would have . . . and thought of something that never occurred to me.

The only think I can add is: "think it through!".

By this I mean, look at the pump, and the pieces, and mentally work through all the possible paths water could take, and end up where ever you are seeing it end up. If you build motors, you can almost certainly do the visualization required to do what I'm suggesting. Once you've thought through all the possible paths, go back and look at the pump and pieces again, and check each with the understanding in view of HOW it would have to fail to produce the results you are seeing.

Be particularly careful to make sure you clearly understand how each seal, and especially the pump seal, works . . . then you can understand how it would have to fail to do what it's doing, and THEN you'll know where to look to find the failure.

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Sorry you're having so much trouble.

Sometimes it is NOT easy. I've intended to post the 'account' of my 'adventures' this spring rebuilding a 15 year old 15HP Marlow pool pump, which did NOT go smoothly. It's kind of an entertaining story, now, but it wasn't at the time!

The pool store where I bought the parts told me to bring in the pump and motor if it still leaked, after looking at it the guy told me he replaced the shaft seal, said I installed it correctly and wasn't sure why it was leaking.....hmmmmm....we'll see.

I cannot tell you the number of times I've disassembled something that wasn't working properly -- computers, valves, pumps, motors -- found nothing, reassembled it, and had it work fine afterwards.

Very annoying . . . thought not as annoying as having it continue to not work!

Personally.....I like my bulldozer idea.....wife...not so much.

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Originally Posted by raw23062

The impeller seal was installed so that the rubber side meets up with the ceramic side of the other seal.

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I just replaced my pump a few months ago and had the exact same problem. Not being as mechanically inclined as you I called a pool guy who only charged me like $30 to come out and correct it. I had installed the seal backwards. I thought that he said that it was supposed to be ceramic meeting the hard carbon piece on the other half rather than the ceramic meeting the rubber. Perhaps you have it backwards as well?

Whatever the guy ended up doing fixed the leak and I haven't taken it apart again to check.

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

I cannot tell you the number of times I've disassembled something that wasn't working properly -- computers, valves, pumps, motors -- found nothing, reassembled it, and had it work fine afterwards.

Very annoying . . . thought not as annoying as having it continue to not work!

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Ben, I've been there, done that and wrecked a tee shirt! LOL

I've found that 'sometimes' the equipment just wants to be 'noticed/played wth' - 'cause there was nothing wrong with the ihstall and I surely didn't make any changes when I took it back apart:)

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Originally Posted by waste

I've found that sometimes the equipment just wants to be 'noticed/played with'

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;););) ......

Like children and puppies!

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Originally Posted by kelemvor

I just replaced my pump a few months ago and had the exact same problem. Not being as mechanically inclined as you I called a pool guy who only charged me like $30 to come out and correct it. I had installed the seal backwards. I thought that he said that it was supposed to be ceramic meeting the hard carbon piece on the other half rather than the ceramic meeting the rubber. Perhaps you have it backwards as well?

Whatever the guy ended up doing fixed the leak and I haven't taken it apart again to check.

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Thanks again for the responses.

So the pool store guy called and told me I had installed everything correctly and he thought it looked like the new seal was leaking anyway. So he replaced both again for me at no charge. He couldn't explain why they were leaking. SO, I picked it up and reinstalled the pump. (Here is a detail I failed to mention before but now seems like it's probably an important detail.) Just like the very first time I installed the pump with the brand new seals, it was leak free for about 24 hours.....and has started to leak again. Thoughts???? Could the new motor shaft be slightly out of round and cause the seals to open up slightly?? This pool is really fighting back. The valve on top of the sand filter decided to break off right after installing the pump as well....close to going postal! Thanks again all for trying to help!

That's seriously frustrating.

And, yeah, that little detail would have helped, since it would have ruled out gasket issues.

I'm not sure about the shaft per se, but the bearing on the 15HP I rebuilt this spring was allowing the shaft to move out of alignment. I suppose that could happen on a small motor, too.

(Ok, laughing at this point)........So I was too fed up to deal with it this weekend and did other chores around the house. It wasn't leaking too badly so I figured I would deal with it this week. It leaked pretty much all day Friday and Saturday.....then last night when I went out to check it and turn the pump off, it was bone dry.....what the???? I just laughed and walked away.... I got nothin.

As every service guy with experience can tell you, there are all sort of mysterious events with things that need fixing. Probably the most frustrating are the items that always work fine, when you're on site, and fail only when you're not!

Man, isn't that the truth. I spent 13 years as an automotive dealer service manager and if I had a dollar for everytime that occured. OK, so I'm on two days of no leaking....I think I'll stop talking about it.....BUT, there continues to be a noise that sounds like something is sucking air. Sounds like air in the lines and is louder around the Hayward Vari-Flo valve(I think its called) No outward leaks anywhere, but just makes that noise like air is in-line. I've tried bleeding off air from the top of the sand filter but it still makes the noise. Ideas???

Could be a lot of things . . . but that's the sort of problem I tend to ignore, if everything else is OK.