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Hi All:
Jst got two estimates for a standard 18x36 gunite pool. Funny thing is they were $10,000 apart. I have been told that for a minimal amount of effort, you can GC (General Contract) on your own and save about 40-50%....On a $40,000 pool, sounds good to me but where to start? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Rob
Rob,
I am NOT a pool builder, but over the past two years I have been trying to buy a quality pool construction company in FL. No luck so far, most quality pool construction companies are not for sale. I have learned a lot looking at a few companies, but only know a fraction of what I need to know. The four companies I looked at had margins no-where near what you posted. While I will not go into specifics, one pool builder told me his goal this year is to net 10% on the pools he builds. While I am sure you can save some money, depending on where you live, it could be a very difficult task. You and the pool builders will be competing for the same subs, and the pro’s will get priority. The sub’s you get will be the ones that are not in demand. They will realize that they can charge you more, and what leverage do you have to have them come back if there are issues? Who is going to do your engineering? Does your area have any regulations on removing ground water? In some FL counties, you can NOT let it flow off the property.
Maybe you can be your own GC, but if I was me, I would really spend a lot of time planning out the project. One thing I have learned from pool builders is they are not interested, in finishing up a job started by someone else, so if you start it, you will finish it.
Craig
Hi, Rob,
Wow! That's an accurate, sobering post by Craig. Of course you can be your own GC and of course you can save some money but there's a lot of hassle involved trying to beat someone at something he does everyday....and has been doing it for years.
I think his figures are more accurate than the 40-50% someone else told you. It can certainly be done but prepare yourself for an intense, possibly frustrating episode. :)
Dave S.
I think Craig is probably right about this one, but it is definitely worth investigating. There are a couple websites out there, where they documented the process of GC'ing a gunite pool. One that comes to mind is something like, howibuiltmyownpool.com or net or something like that. Another one is poolnut.com, I think . . . Seems like I ran across these researching my pool the last several months. Anyway, either way you go, good luck to you. You're on this forum and that's a great start!!
-SJohnson
It's 18x35, 130' perimeter, 32,700 gal, 3M quartz, diving pool. Has a 12x10 shelf off one corner of the shallow end, a 4' sheer descent waterfall (small tiled wall) 625 sq.ft. acrylic decking, sand filter, and vaccuum for cleaning (I've got teens - we'll see if they get it done). It's a very simple pool compared to the gorgeous things being done these days, but I like it.
The interior is being done this week. The only problem I've had was finding a sub to do the wall where the sheer descent was to be installed. I had a designer draw up the plans and it called for a mason to build the wall. In hindsight - it should have been done as part of the shotcrete shoot. Aside from the interior sub being a bit slow in getting me on the schedule, the waterfall wall has been my only problem area.
I knew nothing about this going into it. I read every page of howibuiltmyownpool.com and thought I could handle it. It took me longer than I hoped, but I took my time laying pipe for landscaping and hauling rocks around right before the final inspection, that added almost a month, and then that month wasted on the waterfall wall.
It took more of my time in the beginning. Decisions on designs took a while, finding and contacting subs takes a few weeks, but I had the time to do it. I do not know how I would have done it if I was working full time with a family. Ben, at the website did it though.
It's the busy season now, and getting the subs will be harder. It's easier in the fall/winter for owner/builders. I've noticed a difference in their availability even in January/February.
I haven't been reading here very long - started last Sept. but it seems there are more owner/builders in the west. Don't know where you're from, but if you've got the time and the interest, look into it. I'm saving between $9 and $20 grand, depending on which pool builder's estimate you look at.
Valerie
I just finished being the GC for my 18X32 freeform IG pool with raised 8 foot spa. I also built a rock waterfall with slide. The total cost was around $30K. I started with a set of plans from an online company in Florida, but they did not meet building codes here in Cal. and had to pay a local person to revise them. I originally called all the local pool subs that I could think of or find in the phone book to get as many bids as possible. As I talked with each sub, I asked for other names, which they freely gave out. As I narrowed down who I wanted to do the work, I always asked the subs if they were willing to work with a homeowner and some said yes and other said no. I went with the ones that said yes, and I was glad I did.
I spent a lot of time talking over each part of the pool or spa with the sub so I knew exactly what I was getting --- didn't want any surprises. I must have spend 3 months (part time) studying, talking and reading about plumbing before I decided which sub would do that part. I'm extra glad there, because it's really the heart of the pool and spa. I tried to get everything done as cheaply as possible, and since I consider myself fairly handy with tools and such, I took on some tasks myself. I build the artifical rock waterfall and slide, installed coping, installed tile and did all the electrical. If I was to build another pool I probably would not do that much again ---- it was a lot of work, especially the rock waterfall.
Whenever I felt I was over my head and did not understand something completely, like how to set tile, I would stop and go back into research mode until I felt confident again. Whenever I could I attended a class to learn how the professionals did it. That's how I learned to build the waterfall and slide. I found a company that manufacturers artificial rock and asked them if they were willing to work with a homeowner, which they were and they offer to let me attend one of their professional classes, and even applied the cost of the class to my first order. In addition to learning to build the waterfall, I made some great contacts and was able to get information when it was critical. My wife and I really got into the building of the waterfall. We figured out a system of texturing and coloring concrete that looked pretty good and for many months we spend every Saturday putting the final coat on. At one point, we had a sub doing some decking work near the pool and they stopped what they were doing to watch me and my wife texture and color artifical rock ---- they had never see a homeowner tackle that job, let alone a husband and wife team. It was exciting to think we had learned enough to do it ourselves.
The entire project took about two years and the pool has been in operation for about three months now. I'm still learning the details of pool chemistry and working out some of the startup hassles, such as how to get plaster debris out the pipes, or how long to run the filter pump.
Would I do it again? The answer is a clear and loud YES, but not right away. I'm still waiting for some of the brusies on my arms and legs to heal.
Wil
Owner/builder here in Phoenix. 120 perimeter, freeform rock pool with 18" raised attached spa with natural rock spillway/waterfall. Pebble interior. Aqualogic control system with SWG. Control panel in kitchen and wireless control at the spa. Also used howibuiltmypool.com. Awesome site! I don't think I could have done it with out Ben's info. I met with three larger pool builders in the area and got quotes and design ideas. Then I designed my own plan and excavation started on 10/15. Completed and filled on 1/20. Can't wait until it gets a little warmer here.
Would I do it again? Definately....but going to enjoy this one for a few years (-:
We are about to go the owner/builder route here in Louisiana. . .
I'm only just getting started, but i'm going to document the process along the way. I hope to share our experiences with the board.
Wish me luck.
Lyn
Hi There,
Rob, there are several reasons why the estimates on your pool were $ 10,000 apart. Every pool company is making an estimate based on their drawing or sketch of a pool. While you thinks the bid is on an identical pool there are variables. There is also the quality of the job. While some companies will make the pool with a min. requirement to meet the code, others will exceed it. Some may give you only 2 inlets others will include as many as it takes for proper circulation. Some will include a separate cleaning line, while others will not. Same with the equipment they use. Better pump, filter and valves. And so on....
I'm in Florida and I sell pool plans world wide. We have done over 4,000 plans and many of them in California. Our plans do meat California requirements and are sealed by a California engineer.
Most of our business is from homeowner-builders. The feed back we get is that the savings are around 40 to 50%.
And while it's not for everyone to GC their own pool it really is not that complicated. The subs you use are the same as the pool company does. You need to know the order in which to schedule the subs. You need to know when to call for inspection and your building department will tell you that. Also, this forum is a great source for information.
And Lyn.... How nice it is to run into you here!!!!
Zina
www.PoolDesign.net
I was going to build my own but decided against it. It would be my first time ever building a pool and I was busy enough at my real job to have a second one of overseeing the building of a pool.
I chose instead a coordinator. His job was to design, plan and organize the subs. He knew the order of how to build pools and he knew the subs, he was in business for 20 years. I was skeptical at first, but the more I checked his references the better he looked. He was also less expensive than the official pool companies.
I figured it would take me longer to finish, possibly all summer of learning the steps and that particuler step (excavation, steel, plumbing, etc.) at least enough to understand what to expect and when they were done. Ulitmately when to pay them for their work.
The horror stories I heard about pool companies made me wary of them too. Length of the build time (some were 6 months to years) and sub par work scared me to death. Mine took 5 weeks (dig day to water day).
I usually paid the subs when he said, I trusted him to tell me when they were done. (Except for the guniters - see next paragraph). I paid him in phases, something like $2K for a design and then $1K at agreed upon completion phases (excavation, gunite, plaster, etc). I figured that if for some reason the relationship soured I wouldn't have lost that much money and could either find someone else or attempt to finish it myself. I also made him pick a completion date and let him choose the penalty for not meeting that date. BTW he chose to pay me $500 penalty a week for every week past the completion date. He met his completion date so no problem.
Above all, DO NOT PAY THE SUBS UNTIL YOUR SURE THAT SUB HAS COMPLETED HIS JOB SATISFACTORILY, once they get the money you are instantly low/no priority. Example: The guniters left about a 1K to 1.5K lbs. of excess gunite on the backside of the wall the runs the length of my pool. I paid them and gave them a bonus, as they were there until 11pm working on my job. Little did I know the surprise they left me later. I complained but ended up breaking it up and dumping it myself, just to be done with it.
Another thing I learned was most subs allow you to pay several days after they complete the job, so no worries of waiting until closer to that date to pay them, gives time to review the quality of their work.
Overall I think I got a good deal, he was flexible, attentive (he was there everyday something important happened) and true to his contracted word.
I also supplied an ice chest full of cold sodas and water for the workers, I don't know if it made them work faster/better but I know it didn't hurt.
Our plans do meet California..... (not meat)
I am about to start GC our own IG pool. I am counting on a 30% savings or so. About 10% of which I am dumping back into the pool on things I would not have done with a pool builder. I am currently designing the pool myself. I am using Visio. I will post how things go.
http://www.myonlinesecurity.com/imag...l%20Medium.jpg
It's not done but getting closer.
mmcguire,
FYI To get a permit in your Rancho Murieta you will need a site plan (3 copies I think) that shows all property lines and two sets of structural plans wet stamped by an engineer. Your drawing looks great!!! Want a job??
Thanks. It took us a while to put this drawing together, but that was because we tried several different configurations. Have you dealt with pools in Rancho Murieta before?Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDesignnet
We have just begun our pool being owner/builder. Tomorrow our pool is getting dug. It's pretty exciting! Someone in an earlier post had asked why a sub would want to do work for an owner/builder over a pool builder and that was one of my initial concerns. We have a pool consultant who has done this many, many times and when I asked him that question he said it is because when they do work for an individual they get paid right away. When they are working for a pool company they have to wait to get their money. That made sense to me.
We aren't really planning on saving a huge amount of money, we are just planning on being able to get all the things that we want for our budget. We talked to 4 pool builders and we couldn't get what we wanted. We tried all different kinds, really big, 2 medium, and one small. I was really opposed to being owner/builder at first, but when we couldn't get what we wanted with builders, I figured it would be worth the hassle. Our consultant looked at our bids and said we could save about $12,000. So I figured that even if he is off by a few thousand, we should be able to get the things we want and stay on budget. Plus, I was able to get the pool that I wanted. One builder wouldn't put in an in-floor cleaning system. One wouldn't put a rock waterfall in w/o boulders and transitional flagstone. One wouldn't give me a 7' deep pool. Now we are getting all of those things and feel so much better about it.
Funny you should ask.... Yes, we have done pools all over California, several in Rancho Murieta. Most of our customers are owner-builders such as yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcguire