Cloudy Water

My water has been cloudy for a couple weeks now.
It was just hazy, mostly in the deep end
The pool store had me to floc the pool and told me it should be clear overnight. When I added the floc, it immediately made the entire pool cloudy and you could not see the bottom. Still i done as instructed, let it circulate for 2 hours then shut the pump off. next morning, very little had settled to the bottom of the pool and the pool was still as cloudy as ever. its now 3 days since i used the floc, pool still cloudy, put there is a slight, very slight improvement. Chlorine presently is 2.0, ph 7.2 and ak 180. HELP!! i'm about ready to give up! should floc cloud the water??? what can i do to get my water clear. any and all suggestions needed!!!

Information please:) How big is the pool, what kind of filter and what size pump do you have? What do you chlorinate with and what do you shock with? Have you (or the pool store) tested for Calcium Hardness or Combined Chlorine? What kind of pool?

Give us this information and we can probably help.

inground pool 18 x 36 and i have a sand filter which is a hayward 200. I do not know how big the pump is. last time i had the calcium hardness and combined chlorine checked it was within normal range. i use grandular chlorine and shock. i have used the bioguard products since i have had the pool, which is about 15 years. i have had cloudy water before, but never this long. like i said, it was just hazy in the deep end before i used the floc, but when i put the floc in, the entire pool immediately got cloudy and it has stayed that way. one thing though, according to the pool store when i had the water checked before i done the floc, the water showed maganese...which the pool store advised to use the floc first, then treat for the metals... please help!

Hi,

Two more tests would help greatly in getting your water clear. Calcium Hardness and CYA. If you can get those numbers to us, I bet we can get you cleared up and running in no time.
Your Alk is a little high but I don't think that's the issue. Post up some other numbers and we'll get you straight. Are you running your pump 24/7?:)

Hello,
did you have algae? I had a bad algae bloom and after shocking the pool with plenty of chlorine after a week or so it turned a nice color but VERY cloudy, i tried floc and it hardly helped. I got advice from this forum to continue and add chlorine keeping the ppm high and filter 24/7 after 10days my pool turned crystal clear. My advice is the same thing, shock and filter 24/7 until its clear, also wash out the filter and baskets. however if you a party coming up you want a right now fix i assume and im stumped there. Goodluck and i hope it clears up really quickly.

hope i helped, -Arron

What are you doing as far as vacuuming, brushing and cleaning? Is there anything settling out onto the floor? Any sand on the pool bottom or coming out the backwash hose? (Might indicate filter problems)

Also, make sure you are backwashing often enough. Don't just rely on the gauge, as they sometimes stick. Make sure you have enough flow, and that your skimmer and pump baskets are clean.

There are many, many, many, many reasons why your pool may be cloudy. The floc may or may not be part of your problem. However, without all the test results the posters have been asking for, any advice they give you will be a shot in the dark. We need current test results (numbers, not "good", or "in range", or "normal") for combined chlorine, free chlorine, pH, total alk, Calcium, and CYA. With those numbers, we should be able to give you useful advice that will help you get your pool clear.\

Janet

Yes, we do need to know your cya reading. And, when you say you have been using granular shock, is it cal-hypo or dichlor? No more of either - whichever it is. Stick strictly with bleach. Supply the cya reading and we'll see what else we can offer. I know you are frustrated, but hang in there. One way or another, it will clear.

With a cya of 60, a chlorine reading of 2 is too low. You need to be keeping your cl between 5-10 all the time. And, shocking to about 15. See the chart at the following link. This very well could be a part of your problem. Shock your pool up to 15 using bleach and try and keep it there without letting it yo-yo up and down. If you can, test 3x a day and each time bring your shock level back up to 15. You never did say what type of granular shock you are using, but whatever it is, quit using it. Stick with just bleach. Run your pump 24/7.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

Frustrated...
Are you running your pump 24/7? Floculants ( I believe) are meant to be added then shutting down the pump so that the floc can catch the debris and drop it to the floor. The next day, you should slowly vaccum the fallen debris out of the pool.
Clarifiers are meant to clump the debris into filterable sizes and to leave the pump running.

Perhaps that is why your water got cloudy.

Frustrated,

When you say 'shocking', what are you shocking with? Is it bleach, and how much? Please, don't add anything other than plain liquid bleach!!! Keep it simple silly.......add bleach!

One gallon of regular unscented bleach (5.25% sodium hypochlorite) will raise the chlorine of 10,000 gallon pool 5.25 ppm. Too effectively shock, you'd need to raise chlorine to a 15ppm, which would be 3 gallons of bleach, for a theoretical 10,000 gallon pool. Now, if you have algae or other contaminates in the pool, those will eat up that chlorine fairly quickly, so you'd need to be adding more bleach as needed, daily. This is why it's advocated here to use a drops based kit. You'll know what your numbers are and be able to adjust the chemistry as required.

Most drop based kits do not measure chlorine higher than 5. So to be accurate, you'll need to use the distillation method. Not hard at all. If I can do it, you can do it. You'll need some distilled water. Take one part distilled water, and one part pool water, mix together, and use this sample to test for chlorine. Take this number and multiply x 2 for your free chlorine (FC). If it still reads higher than 5, take 2 parts distilled water, one part pool water, mix and measure, then multiply by 3. Some people use a shot glass as their measuring method, I personally use a childs medicine cup. Plastic won't break if you're doing your testing out by the pool.

Now, do you have an old nylon knee high? I've begun to use one over my skimmer basket, and have been surprised as how much gunk it is able to filter out. The first day I used it, I had to clean it twice as it was filled and clogged with who knows what, which I could not see with my naked eye (even corrected @ >20/20). This may help you also.

Keep the pump/filter running 24/7, and backwash when needed.

Post numbers when you get them. If you take pool sample to the pool store, have them run all the numbers and get a printout. Then post.

Good luck, and Happy Mothers Day.

CaryB
Go 'Canes!

Keep adding the bleach--you have to be aggressive with that. Since your CYA is 90, you need to keep your Free Chlorine level at 20ppm. You have to test the water 2 to 3 times a day and add chlorine when it drops. Most of what I usually say has been said. Thanks, IvyLeaguer--saved me a LOT of typing.

Do NOT use any kind of powdered chlorine--use only bleach now.

Frustrated,

Thanks for the update! Keep adding the bleach as you want the free chlorine level to be at least 20ppm w/ a CYA for 90 AND a combined chlorine reading. If you look at your chlorine numbers: Free chlorine + combined chlorine (the BAD stuff, think combined contaminants) = total chlorine. Your FC is 5 and total chlorine is 5.7, so that means your combined chlorine is 0.7. This indicates that the chlorine is working on something in the pool, being used up. Therefore, you need to add more bleach to counter what is being used up.

Your pH is okay, but keep testing it because bleach can cause pH to rise, although not always. Mine stays steady at 7.6 and I use bleach exclusively.

The calcium is high, and I'm betting that it is causing or at least exacerbating the cloudiness. DO NOT add more cal-hypo granular shock! This is reason enough to stick with the bleach program.

The alkalinity is on the high end, but not dangerously so. I'll let other folks with more wisdom here address this. If it was my pool, I'd probably leave it alone for now, but keep checking it to make sure it doesn't go higher.

What was the name and ingredients of the algecide you used? Most folks here use polyquat 60%. If the ingredient on the label says poly.....something unpronouncable and is 60%, then it's polyquat. I'd not add anymore at this point. Other algecides can add copper, which can cause staining w/ high chlorine levels. Stay away from that.

Glad the water is clearing up, may still take awhile. Keep the pump/filter running 24/7, add more bleach, and try a skimmer basket sock if you can find one. That can catch more gunk too.

Good luck....oh, and add more bleach!!

CaryB
Go 'Canes!!

thank you for such a quick reply! thanks! the alagecid is bioguard product..called back up...ingredients are dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride.
one more quick question...do i address the iron...if i add any pool magnet plus as instructed to rid of metals, it says to not shock for 7 days...so do i add the bleach and address the iron later if at all? please advise...thanks!!!

I think a lot of your problem has already been addressed a couple of times in earlier posts in this thread. When you have high cya like you do, you aren't going to kill any algae if you let your chlorine levels drop too low. You need to test 3x a day and each time bring your chlorine back up to shock level. Letting it continue to drop too low is going to keep you from getting this problem solved.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Very Frustrated

one more quick question...do i address the iron...if i add any pool magnet plus as instructed to rid of metals, it says to not shock for 7 days...so do i add the bleach and address the iron later if at all? please advise...thanks!!!

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An iron reading of 0.2 sounds miniscule to me, but I'm no expert on that metal. I'd refrain from adding anything else, and stick with the plain unscented bleach, and keep it up to 20ppm. Once your pool clears, then you can begin addressing the other issues.

Oh, and keep adding the bleach to maintain the free chlorine level up @ 20ppm. Good luck.

CaryB

you need to look at ben's best guess chart for cya levels, i will put a copy here the 20 is just while you are having to stay at shock level.:)



Best Guess CYA chart
________________________________________
Ben's 'best guess' FC/Stabilizer table for algae free operation of OUTDOOR pools -- as of July 2003 --

Use the info in this chart to help you figure out what levels of chlorine you need to maintain in your pool based on the amount of CYA (cyanuric acid, also called stabilizer) that you have in your pool. (FC = free chlorine)

Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC
=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm
=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm
=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm
=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm
=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

Frustrated,

Guess what! All the times before when you added "shock", you were actually increasing the chlorine to many times higher than 3. That's the whole point of "shocking".....getting the chlorine high to kill (or shock to death!!) the evil algae or microbes in the water. The 20ppm is just for the shocking level. Here's the chart below as a reference.

Stabilizer(CYA) . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC
=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm
=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm
=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm
=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm
=> 100 - 200 ppm . .8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

Most people don't swim during the times that they are shocking the pool, because they are trying fight off contaminates in the water. Once the water clears and contaminates are killed, then the chlorine level is allowed to go back down to maintenance levels. In your case with a CYA of 90, you'll need to stay between 5-10.

Also chlorine is chlorine, it just comes in different forms and many different kinds of products. I used to use pucks, which provided the chlorine for my pool. Now I use bleach, which provides chlorine for my pool. Some people use granular pellets in a floating device, which provides chlorine for the pool. IT IS ALL THE SAME CHEMICAL COMPOUND IN THE END, and your pool doesn't care which one you use, as long as it gets its' sanitizer.

How's the pool looking? Is it clearing? What are your current numbers? Good luck.

CaryB

yea i realize the shock shoots the chlorine levels up. just never have kept chlorine levels high for days like this...wanted to make sure i understood exactly what you are saying so i don't screw up and make it any worse. i do appreciate very much you bearing with me and helping me. honestly, thanks very much. the pool is still cloudy, not as bad, can see the bottom. i don't trust my judgement on the water testing i do, but today my readings are chlorine 15, ph 7.5, ta 180. can't test for cya. keep the levels high until it completely clears...is that right? also, i could stand to add water as the level is down due to backwashing, etc....but should i hold off on adding water until this problem clears.if it ever does? thanks

computer results today
TDS 1100, cya 93, total chlorine 10, free chlorine 7.9, ph 7.5 total alkalinity 115, total hardness 453
water unchanged..still cloudy but can see the bottom
would appreciate some advise. thanks

With a TC of 10 and FC of 7.9, then your CC should be 2.1, which means you need to bring your chlorine up to "shock" level, which with a CYA level of between 90-100 would be 20-25ppm according to Ben's Best Guess Chart. This should bring your FC & TC into balance and your CC down to 0 (or at least down to less than .5, which is acceptable according to most of the "gurus" on the board).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Very Frustrated

computer results today
TDS 1100, cya 93, total chlorine 10, free chlorine 7.9, ph 7.5 total alkalinity 115, total hardness 453
water unchanged..still cloudy but can see the bottom
would appreciate some advise. thanks

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Frustrated,

Looks like you have combined chlorine of 2.1. Keep adding the bleach, needs to be higher than 10, up around 20-25ppm to be effective.

Yours is a vinyl pool, right? The total hardness (calcium) is a bit high. It could be a contributing factor to the cloudiness. Once the combined chlorine is dealt with, then this needs to be addressed. Most advocate partial drain and fill, if fill water calcium is low. You may want to browse the "Dealing w/ Alk and Calcium" section.

PH and alkalinity look good. No worries there.

The TDS seems high, as mine is only in the hundreds. Calcium can factor into that value. Here's a recent thread: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...ssolved+solids It, too, advocates a partial drain/fill to lower TDS. If so, fill water needs to be tested.

Keep adding the bleach to get the chlorine up, pump and filter 24/7 and have patience. It took awhile for the pool to get this way, will take a while to correct.

Good luck.

CaryB

guys...when i first starting adding the bleach combined chlorine was .5 and now it's 2.1 after adding all this bleach...so you still advise to shock to 20-25?? seems like i just keep getting worse instead of better as far as the readings go....is that normal and just keep shocking and keep it at 20-25 until it clear??? just want to make sure??

Yes, your CC can go up...it's the amount of chlorine that's been "used up" but is still in the water.

There is something in your pool that is "eating" or combining with the clorine you are adding - that's probably what made it cloudy to start with. You need to bring your clorine level back up to "shock" to "burn-off" this combined clorine.

I think the combined clorine indicates you still have something in your pool that's not "dead" - but the experts can probably explain this better.

Hang in there - it sounds like it's getting better:)

i do have a vinyl liner...i have and will keep adding the bleach and pray this will eventually clear. how can i determine the free chlorine and combined chlorine without going to the pool store to analyize the water?

The best way to measure free and combined chlorine is with a test kit that does so such as the one Ben sells. But in a pinch, I sometimes will use this crude and somewhat inaccurate method with test kits that test total chlorine only. After adding the drops and mixing, immediately note what the color and reading is. This is close to your free chlorine level. After a few minutes, note the color and level again. This is your total chlorine level. Combined chlorine is then the total - free. If the color does not change, you probably do not have any more combined chlorine. Again, this is not very accurate and will miss small amounts of CC. Long term you might want to order Ben's kit.

how do you order ben's kit? phone number...website or something?
price? thanks

You can order it here:

http://www.poolsolutions.com/cart/ps234.php

thanks for the primitive method and website also.
pool water has been cloudy too many weeks..
i'm giving it one last try tonight...shocking to these levels again..then i am giving up this season... thanks to all who has tried to help.

You could always use Poconos's plastic sheet method and COMPLETELY replace the water in your pool, so you can swim in it this summer. I'll ask him to post the link to his description.

Thanks. I found his post on how to replace the water with the plastic sheet.
adding the bleach the last time i posted on 5/20... shock to 25 ppm.. has helped as the water is almost clear today. this morning the cya is still 90, ph 7.5, ta 180, chlorine 6.0. thanks for all the advise. i did and do appreciate any and all help you give. your forum is very helpful