Pool is clear finally, Now the liner is stained.

Hi,

Thanks to all that contributed the help on clearing the cloud in my pool. Now I have a staining issue.

I am afraid to try the absorbic acid, but I want to make sure its the correct thing to do.

I am on a well with a softner. I guess I had break through when filling the pool. Pool is clear but seemed dull, and I noticed a ring around the pool, just below the water line.

Read the posts on this site and bought vitamin C tablets. HOLY COW!!! Did not realize how dirty the liner is. It cleared a spot as so bright I had to put on my sun glasses.

OK Here what I am going to do.

1. Buy absorbic acid. (saw links here for $22 for 2 lbs)
2. wait for chlorine to get to 0
3. add polyquat per instructions. ($24 bucks ugg. But better to get what I had before)
4. Get PH down to 6.8. ( How critical is this? My PH is always 7.2 and never really moves)
5. add 1/2 lb acid around walls and circ for 24 hours
6. add some metal something. (This I am not sure. I read to add 1 1/2 more then stated. How critical is this. Will the iron just filter out?)
7.Add chlorine slowly, but do this possibly with triclor pucks in the skimmer. This will alow the iron to filter. keep chlorine at 2ppm?
8. After a week or two bring all to normal levels. And dont shock buring this time.
9.Should I use my sand filter during this process, or the cart filter. The cart is new.

Please add anything if its wrong. I want a bright liner again, and I think all that shocking to get the pool clear did it. I never had a staining issue before.

Hi Lawrosa;

Given your situation and expenses, I don't think I'd recommend doing all that right away. What you can do is get some 100% HEDP -- the only brand with listed ingredients I've found is Jacks Magic "Pink Stuff". The cheapest I've seen is here:
http://www.horizonpoolsupply.com/sto...ategoryID=4339
. . . but do NOT overdose!

I can't respond fully this morning, and I'll be gone most of the day, but get that, use it, and hold off on the rest. (You can go ahead and order the ascorbic acid, but wait to use it.)

Ben




your earlier threads for ref:
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...l-cloudy-white

OK so I need to buy a metal chemical that is 100 % HEDP. ( Whats that stand for?) I have 4 pool stores. Look for that on the ingredients??

If I cant find it I will have to order. I might find it today. Then what do I do?

Lawrosa:

Didn't you say you are in NJ? If so, find a nearby Branch Brook Pools and buy their Mustard Algae remover--you'll see it's 60% PolyQuat and costs about $20, rather than $24.

I can't really help you with the HEDP, I've never worked with it as my pool doesn't have a metal problem.

Carl

PS: Ben posted this link for one brand:
http://www.horizonpoolsupply.com/sto...ategoryID=4339
C

Yes I have a branch brook. But I am going to find the stuff Ben says first. I am going out today to look.

Proteam Metal Magic is also HEDP (1-Hydroxyethylidene)di phosphonic acid), It is a metal sequestrant and also used as a corrosion inhibitor in many industrial applications. It keeps the metals dissloved in your water from depositing as stain but does not do too much to existing stain in most cases.

Actually I called anthony pools in manalapan. They have it. Going to get it in 10 minutes.

Here is my vitamin C test. You can see a square that I made with the tablet. You might say the pool does not look that bad, but its the pic. The pic makes it look better.


Some pics are when the pool was cloudy. Took almost 3 weeks to clear.


http://s1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/lawrosa/pool/


From what I have been reading there may seem to be a link with all these trouble pools this yr.

I leave my pool uncovered with a leaf net only. Plus on a well. If you read some posts it seems people with trouble are uncovered??? Well??? Possibly someone can put it together... Possibly I was fighting iron algae. Is there such a thing????

I don't think it is the "uncovered" part that is the problem. I don't cover my pool in the winter and neither does Al (Poconos) who is one of the other mods. Filling from a well is a problem for most people though.

Don't give up. You've come so far. Ben will be back around later and will help get you through this! If he hasn't come back to this thread by tomorrow morning, bump it back up to remind us! He gets pretty busy and he has LOTS of irons in the fire .............

Thanks.

OK Got the pink stuff.

http://jacksmagic.com/pdfs/MSDS-JMPINK.pdf

It says initial dose 1 qt for 10,000 gal. I read on the forums that more is better. I have a 6000 gallon pool. I am going to throw the whole bottle in.

Wish me luck....

I will take pics to let you know.

Oh could I swim with this stuff???? It does not say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawrosa

OK Got the pink stuff. I am going to throw the whole bottle in.

---

http://jacksmagic.com/pdfs/MSDS-JMPINK.pdf



Uggg...Ben I just re-read your post. "Do not overdose"

I hope I did ok throwing the whole bottle in.

Do I need to do anything else???

I do not see it doing anything so far.

Ben? Anyone?

OK.....LOL

Ben, the pink stuff worked.. The stain has disapated. It may be still slight, ( I cant tell) but I assume its a slower process.

Is the iron now filtering out?

Should I put triclor pucks in the skimmer?

Also I have to note: I should have filled the pool as high as I could. I have a clean liner at the water line and below, but above it is stained. About 4" on the fake looking tile border.

I am thinking of taking all the vitamin C tablets I have and put them in a sock. Then go around the top part of liner.
Will that affect anything?

OK.

FC 3
CC 0
Alk 80
PH 6.8 ( Added 42 oz borax by volume to get back up to 7.2 The pink stuff knocked it down. )
CH. 17.1 ppm
CYA. ? (Waiting for my reagent to come in the mail)

Is there anything else I need to do????????

Thanks all. Ben, Carl, and any others that posted. I almost feel like crying from happiness... Oh wait. Im a guy. Theres no crying...

I will take pics and post in a few.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lawrosa

OK.....LOL

Ben, the pink stuff worked.. The stain has disapated. It may be still slight, ( I cant tell) but I assume its a slower process.

Is the iron now filtering out?
No it is redissolved in the water and temporily chemically inert. You have to keep adding the maintenance dose every week or two to keep the staind from returning.
You did a slight overdose but as long as the water did not cloud you are fine. I have actually used up to a triple dose when there are a lot of stains but I would not recommend it for someone who is not really familiar with stain removal processes.
Should I put triclor pucks in the skimmer?
The theory here is that the high local chlorine levels will cause the iron to stain out on the filter but I woudl post a current set of test results and let Ben answer this one because personally I do not like putting trichlor in the skimmer basket.
Also I have to note: I should have filled the pool as high as I could. I have a clean liner at the water line and below, but above it is stained. About 4" on the fake looking tile border.
Bring up the water level and keep it there. Next time you add a maintenance dose dose of Pink Stuff double it and keep your pH below 7.4 and the stain should lift eventually.

I am thinking of taking all the vitamin C tablets I have and put them in a sock. Then go around the top part of liner.
Will that affect anything?
Might eat up a bit of chlorine but I have done exactly the same thing myself. You are making a homemade spot stain bag. Not as cost effective as raising the water, adding more seqestrant, keeping the pH low and waiting if you have a big area to do but it's fine for smaller areas. Just keep tabs on your FC since the ascorobic acid will destroy some of it. Just remember not to shock the pool or make large changes to the FC level for a few weeks to keep the stains from returning.
OK.

FC 3
CC 0
Alk 80
PH 6.8 ( Added 42 oz borax by volume to get back up to 7.2 The pink stuff knocked it down. )
CH. 17.1 ppm
CYA. ? (Waiting for my reagent to come in the mail)

Is there anything else I need to do????????

Thanks all. Ben, Carl, and any others that posted. I almost feel like crying from happiness... Oh wait. Im a guy. Theres no crying...
I've cried myself when I have seen a badly stained pool returned to it's original glory after stain removal so go ahead and cry. You have permission! ;)
I will take pics and post in a few.

---

Hope this helps!

Lawrosa;

Waterbear covered a lot of what I would have said. If an HEPD overdose was gonna be a problem, you'd already know.

Regarding tabs -- I forget to remind people -- because pools in my area tend to NOT have timers -- that with any sort of trichlor feed system (skimmer, feeder, what not) you need to run your pump at LEAST 2x per day. And, if you are using tabs to remove metals, you need to run 24/7 anyhow.

Tabs sitting in stagnant water can be a real problem.

But, back to the metals. As best I can tell, you've got three options:

#1 - You can use Pink Stuff or Metal Magnet regularly, until there's too much iron and you loose control. (With regular backwashing, this may not happen.)

#2 - You can pursue the "filter it out" approach, which requires a careful and attentive operator.

#3 - You can be a Culator guinea pig: http://www.culator.com/. Chem_Geek thinks this product might work. I've talked to them, and thought they might provide folks like you with free samples in exchange for public testing . . . but I haven't heard back from them.

Which one appeals to you?

Ben

Well Ben, again I thank you.

What appeals to me is #2 and #3. #1 forget it.

#2. How do I do the filter out approach? Is that the pucks in the skimmer? So add a puck to the skimmer and make sure the pump is running when its in there. OK. I could do that is ==f it works.

#3. That sounds like a good product. Is it new? But how many would you need to use? And I did not catch the price on the site, but I will look again.

And what is the material that will absorb metals? I am sure we can make this ourselfs????? I will try to research it.

Possibly would it be some type of water softner resin in a bag?

Mike NJ

I have ordered Culator, and will let you know how it works, although I do not have any staining in my pool at the moment (yeah). Dealing with metals is a pain, but it can be done. I really hate stains - ask my husband, he thinks I am obsessed, maybe I am, but I am determined to keep my pool stain free, just for the stubbornness in me!

OK just alittle follow up.

Pool is nice and clear. Got the new chlorine kit so I can test for CC better. Also more cynaric acid.

FC 4
CC .5 ( well the solution barely turned pink with 5 drops R3. One drop R 871 to turn clear. testing from 10 ml mark)
PH 7.2 ( Never changes. )
Alk 90
CH 17.1 ( Actually my test is for total hardness. Should I have calcium on a vinyl liner? I fill from a softner and it removes all that.
CYA 30

The pink stuff worked as Ben said. The liner is clean of the stains. It also cleaned the pump basket. It looks new. I never knew it was stained. The return is white also...LOL

Now I am wondering if and when to shock if needed. Because of $$ I am not buying any more metal stuff unless I have to. I think my staining was caused by over chloronating. I have the same well water as before but because of my issue this yr, I probably raised my chlorine to some ridiculous amount. 25-30ppm???

Now with the powder test I can shock properly and keep the correct levels.

Not sure if the pool has that depth it used to have. You know, water so clear you can read the date on a quarter at the bottom... Well not really.. Just trying to explain what I mean.

Anyway I am going to find info on when to shock. I think I read people do it once a week regardless, but also read only when CC gets to a 1.

OK I will take pics tomorrow. Its going to be 90F

You don't ever need to shock unless you are fighting something in the water. You will know if the water turns cloudy, or if you have any combined chlorine. Sounds like your chemical numbers are right in order. If you make sure that you don't let the chlorine get low enough for anything to start up in your water you should not have to shock. As for using a metal sequestering agent, if you see any stains start to form you can put some in. Staining means the sequestering agent is too low to keep the metals in suspension, so you need to add more. I don't use a maintenance dose, I just add when I see some discoloration starting on my pool. Let us know if you have any other questions, Happy swimming!

Really glad you hear things are FINALLY all cleared up. Congrats! Now it is time to enjoy the pool!

OK, Me again.

Alright here is what I got. The pool is swimable but not happy with the slight cloud. Like I said previously. The depth is not there. Tonight with the pool light it looks alittle yellow? Faint green hue???

Anyway again thanks to all for getting me this far. I would like to fine tune the pool to get it clear. just throw me in the right direction.

Tonights readings
FC 4
CC 0
PH 7.2
Alk 90
THardness 17.1
CYA 30
TDS 880

Summary: My pool was swamp green and cloudy for three weeks. Per Ben I kept the shock up and filtered for 48 hrs. Cleared up, but I guess is still off. My 10 yr old even says it seems cloudy. From shocking I guess I stained the liner. Ben suggested Jacks magic pick stuff, which took all the stains out. They are still gone.

The vitamin C test worked so I assumed it was IRON???

My fill water is treated, 20 micron filter, calcite filter, softner. My fill water tests at

FC 0
PH 7.2
Alk 160
Total hardness 0
TDS 200 ( Raw well water TDS is 80 )

What do I need to do? I run the pump 16 hours on low. I run for a few hours on high every other day to get two pool turnovers.

So all is good except for this yellowish hue. Possibly slight green hue. Light cloudy, no depth to the water.

Thanks in advance.

Have you tried adding a little DE to your sand filter? Backwash first. Start with a bout 1/4 cup, wait 30 and see if your pressure went up. The object is to determine how much DE is needed to make your pressure gauge go up 1 psi. Then just run your filter 24/7. When the PSI goes up five or six pounds, backwash and add DE again.

Also put a "skimmer sock" in your skimmer. Between the two your water should go clear in a few days.

Carl

I unhooked the sand because I got a new cartridge for my old filter. I thought the cart filters better then the sand. I could easily hook it up again.

Do you then think its a filtration issue? I ran the cart overnight and all day a few days ago. The cart is new and has not raised in pressure. I did hose it off and just white water sprayed off it. I was thinking it was still a metals issue.

You say the sand with DE would be superior to the cart?

I was adding DE to the sand when the pool was cloudy from the previous posts. 1/2 cup raised pressure about 1 psi. The pressure would rise with it. Starts at 15 and goes to about 19. With out DE it does not rise. Just like the cart.

I guess I will try the sand and DE again.

I read about the sock but never used them. What will it catch?

Anything else to try?

Socks catch particles in the water that might otherwise pass through the filtration system. If it is still not clear, I'd keep the cl high for a few more days. You've come too far to quit too soon and have to start over. Also, you should be running the pump 24/7 while you are trying to clear the water. Have you testing in the evening after the sun is off the pool and again in the morning within 2 hours of sunup to see if you are losing more than 1ppm of chlorine overnight. if you do lose more than that, it is a sign that you are still fighting something in the water and should continue high cl levels.

I will have to do that test , evening then morning as you sugest. But isnt it CC that tells me there is something there??? I have the powder test kit for chlorine. The CC tonight was 0

There can be organics to oxidize in the pool that do not register as CC in the test but create a chlorine demand so will use up FC over time. So if you measure significant CC or too much FC loss overnight then you have a need to keep the chlorine up at shock level. One example of organics that would not register as CC are those that are somewhat slow to react with chlorine, but once chlorine initially reacts with them then they decompose quickly.

HI.

I am up early to test the pool before the sun comes up.

Last night brought pool up to FC 4

This morning tested the same FC 4

So not losing anything overnight. I guess I will take Carls advice and run the sand with DE. Like I said I thought the Cartridge filters better then the sand from what I read. 10 micron cart vs 30 micron sand. Plus its a brand new cart.

I am still looking at info on the Jacks magik pink stuff I put in. I put the whole bottle in, but this was last week sometime. Ben or Carl said I would know if I overdosed. They did not specify what would actually happen.

I have not used the blue clarifier since the pool was real cloudy. I wonder if I overdosed with that. I think ben said you get into a ionic hell if you use too much. Does that burn off though?


I will also go back and read the 100 reasons for a cloudy pool. Possibly I will pick something out.

Like I said, no big deal. Just trying to get the clear depth. You may not even notice to pool has a slight cloud. My wife says clear. My kids say cloudy. I say both...LOL. Its clear but cloudy..... Ha ha.

FC 4
CC 0
Alk 90
PH 7.5
Total Hardness 17 ( maybe I need calcium? I fill from a softner.)
CYA 35

Good news on the sundown to sunup test. You do not need calcium in a vinyl pool. Time to go swimming and have some fun!

I think you just need a little pop (pool owner patience) . A lot of times when you are getting rid of stains the pool turns cloudy - it is from all of the stuff used to remove the metals (sequestering agent) , and takes a while to filter out. It also can cause a chlorine demand, which I see you no longer have. I use the filter socks, and keep the pump running 24/7. The good news is that after this is finished, and the water is clear, you usually have no more problems if you keep up with the water. As soon as you notice some staining starting, add a little pink stuff - just the maintenance dose, and if it doesn't lift, then a little more, making sure that the ph is no higher than 7.2. You can swim as long as the chlorine is good for your cya. Good job, happy swimming.