I've found 2 different procedures to perform this conversion. One suggests starting with non-chlorine shock (pool store recommended, too). The other suggested starting with bleach. What's your suggestion on starting? Thanks.
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I've found 2 different procedures to perform this conversion. One suggests starting with non-chlorine shock (pool store recommended, too). The other suggested starting with bleach. What's your suggestion on starting? Thanks.
We suggest bleach. You can read the details of how to do it in some of the threads in this section of the forum. Basicially, you just keep adding loads of bleach. Your pool will turn various shades of green but will eventually clear. Some of the threads have pictures documenting some of the conversions made by some of the members on our forum. By the way, welcome to the forum!
I uncovered the pool yesterday. The water is cloudy, although the bottom drain is visible. It hasn't changed after running the pump overnight. Should I resolve this prior to starting the chlorine conversion?
No. Just go ahead and start your conversion. No reason to clear the pool up when this conversion process is going to muck it up again (temporarily). You're going to be so glad that you switched to chlorine once you do this.
BTW -- I deleted your other duplicate post. I have a feeling that your post didn't show up so you tried again. New members' posts go into a moderation queue and have to be looked at and approved by one of the moderators before they will show up on the forum. After some time passes, you will no longer have to through this moderation process and your posts will show up immediately.
The conversion process has started. The "Beginner's Guide to Pool Chemistry Needs" post recommends FC at 3ppm. The "Converting Baquacil to Chlorine" post recommends FC at 15ppm. What is the difference? Thanks so much for a great site.
While you are converting, your chlorine level is going to disappear quickly. The more often you add bleach and more consistently you keep the cl level elevated, the faster the conversion will go. Aim for 15 and as often as you can, test and add more bleach.
Added the equivalent of 10 gal 6% bleach in 5 doses. Now showing the values below. The pool is green with a yellow-green foam covering about half the surface. I just added 3.5 gal 6% bleach, and will test again in a few hours. The pump pressure has risen about 8 psi. I plan to backwash and top-off with water after the next test. Sound like I'm on track?
4 ppm FC
1.5 ppm CC
7.2 pH
What I thought was a yellow-green foam is actually a floating semi-solid. I wonder if the bleach will decompose this, or should I try to skim it off? Backwashing didn't reduce the pressure as low as normal. I suspect the sand is becoming clogged. Should I continue to filter, or bypass?
Latest readings:
14 ppm FC
3.5 ppm CC
7.5 pH
Hang in there, sounds like it's going well! If you can skim off the stuff floating on the surface, go ahead and do that--it's less gunk that will stop up your filter. Bacquacil will form a "goo" when chlorinated, which is what's causing your filter pressure to rise. Just backwash it as the pressure indicates, and then when the conversion is complete you'll need to completely change out your filter media to get rid of the Baq residue. Don't bypass--you won't accomplish your goal that way--you want that stuff out of your water.
Janet
Removed the gunk, but some still floating in the skimmers. I'll drive that into the filter and backwash this afternoon. Pool is still green, but the bottom is becoming visible. No change in pump pressure. 16.7 gals 6% beach so far.
Latest readings:
6 ppm FC
3 ppm CC
7.2 pH
Keep hammering it with bleach! You're on the right track!
Day 3. Total bleach so far = 27.5 gals 6%. Added 76 oz borax this morning to raise the pH. Headed outside to vac and backwash. Pump pressure shows slight rise. Pool is beginning to clear. I'm encouraged!!!
Current eadings:
11.5 ppm FC
2.5 ppm CC
7.0 pH
Good progress! Just think, it a few days you'll have a beatifully clear pool. Have you been taking pictures along the way to document your conversion?
Day 4: Pool is crystal clear. Toal bleach so far = 33.1 gals 6%. Pump pressure unchanged. I think I'll call it done, and replace the sand today.
Chlorine disappears quickly due to low CYA. Leslie's recommends their Instant Conditioner, instead of cyanuric acid. It looks like the big advantage is it disolves quickly. Any comments on this product?
Current readings:
2.5 ppm FC
1.5 ppm CC
7.2 pH
0 ppm CYA
Thanks for all your help!!!
Post the ingredients on the Instant Conditioner. Don't add it or cya yet.
Also, if you still have a CC reading of 1.5ppm, I wouldn't call it done just yet. Continue for a bit longer until you have a CC reading no higher than 0.5 and until you can go overnight from sundown to sunup without losing more than 1ppm of FC.
Thanks for the tip. Leslie's Instant Conditioner is 35% monosodium cyanurate monohydrate.
The product offered by Leslie's is Natural Chemistry Instant Conditioner (formerly known as Instant Pool Water Conditioner) and is a slurry of sodium cyanurate. A while ago, I had communication with the inventor of that product. It is a faster dissolving form of cyanuric acid, technically a salt of cyanuric acid. It will work as described, but it is about twice as expensive as using Cyanuric Acid itself. So it's a price/convenience trade-off.
Most people are willing to use pure CYA and just wait for it to dissolve which can be forced to happen faster by putting it in a sock and hanging it over a return flow. Personally, I use an old T-shirt in the skimmer and add it there (I also have floor drains and an alternate skimmer port so there is no risk for clogging causing problems).
Another way of increasing CYA quickly that is more economical is to use Dichlor as a source of chlorine since for every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Dichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 9 ppm. Of course, this still takes time to get the CYA to increase by a substantial amount unless one's chlorine usage is high. Other people just start out using Trichlor tabs/pucks for a time. So there are options.
Richard
I'm not clear on the differences between Dichlor and Trichlor. In reading the Wikipedia definitions, it looks like Trichlor is a good option to chlorinate a pool that has just been converted from Baquacil. Once the CYA reaches about 40 ppm, revert to bleach. Then, switch between Trichlor and bleach to maintain CYA values. Does this make sense?
Dichlor is typically a powdered form of stabilized chlorine (which means it has CYA in it) and Trichlor is in puck form.
As far as switching between Trichlor and bleach ----- once you get your cya level where you want it, it is pretty stable and you shouldn't need to use any form of stabilized chlorine any more. If you typically take a vacation during the summer and are away from home for awhile with nobody to add bleach for you, some people like to give themselves a little wiggle room when initially bringing the cya level up. In otherwords, keep it a little on the low side (maybe 30-35ish) so that when you use pucks while you are away on vacation, your cya level doesn't get too high. Just something to think about. I like to keep my cya around 40-45. When I'm away on vacation, I have somebody who will throw some bleach in every couple of days for me, though.
Day 5: Pool is still crystal clear. Total bleach so far = 38.7 gals 6%. Pump pressure holding steady since yesterday's backwash.
FC dropped 1.5 ppm, and CC increased .5 ppm overnight. Should I contine to add bleach in large quantities, or reduce to more normal levels? What is the probability the pool may never reach the recommended level (.5 ppm CC, and less than 1 ppm FC loss overnight)?
Here are the overnight readings:
Sun 6:30pm
3.5 ppm FC
1.0 ppm CC
7.2 pH
Mon 6:00am
2.0 ppm FC
1.5 ppm CC
7.2 pH
Don't stop now, you're almost at the finish line!! :) Yes, continue to add the bleach to target your conversion level, until you get rid of the cc and can hold chlorine overnight without losing more than 1 ppm. It will happen--you just have to trust it and be patient. You're doing it right--just stay the course a little while longer (probably a couple of days or so) and it'll all be worth it in the end. The more consistent you are about keeping that chlorine up above 12 ppm, the faster this will go.....
Janet
I'm having trouble raising FC today. Started at .5 ppm FC. I added 3.5 gal 6%, which the pool calculator says should take it to about 10%. 2 hours later it's at 1 ppm FC. It's cloudy day with temps in the low-70s. The CYA is still 0. Can the FC degrade this quickly?
The conversion process from baq to bleach is unique to each pool. Keep hammering it with bleach as often as you can. It ultimately will get to a point where the chlorine holds overnight with no increase in CC. Hang in there!
Day 7: Pool is still crystal clear. Total bleach so far = 56 gals 6%. Pump pressure holding steady. Backwashed yesterday, before adding 3 lbs CYA to reduce chlorine loss.
FC dropped 3.2 ppm, and CC dropped .5 ppm overnight. Should I contine to add bleach in large quantities? It will probably be 2 weeks until I can change the sand.
Here are the overnight readings:
Tue 8pm
7.2 ppm FC
1.0 ppm CC
7.2 pH
200 TA
Wed 7am
4.0 ppm FC
0.5 ppm CC
7.2 pH
0 CYA
Keep hammering it with bleach until you're not losing more than 1 ppm of chlorine overnight....
Janet
I think 200 ppm TA is on the high side of the range. Will this self-correct as water is added to replenish splashout and backwash?
It really depends on the TA of your fill water. IF the fill water has high TA you will have to lower the TA by adding enough acid to drop the pH to 7.0, aerate the water to drive off CO2 which raises the pH without any effect on TA, and repeat the process until the TA lowers to where you want it. This process can take a few days if you don't have a good method to aerate the water. I would suggest in investing in one of those fountains that connect to the return. They work great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thissenw
Don't worry about TA yet! Finish the conversion first and get the rest of the parameter in line. You can actually swim while you lower TA as long as you don't drop the pH below 7.0. In fact, a poolful of kids (or adults:)) having a 'spalshfest' can aerate the pool very effectively!)
The worse effect of high TA (besides it's impact on calcium saturation which is only really important for plaster and possibly fiberglass pools) is that the pH will have a tendency to rise very fast.
I added 3 lbs Poolife Stabilizer (96% cyanuric acid) to the skimmer, following all instructions. I've heard CYA takes some time to disolve. It's been 2 days, and still reading 0 CYA. Is this normal?
It sometimes takes up to a week for it to appear on testing. As long as you have not cleaned or backwashed your filter after adding it you will be OK. Just be patient. I normally wait a full week before even testing for it after adding it. Running your pump 24/7 will speed up the dissolving a bit since the undissolved CYA gets trapped n the filter and the constant water flow helps it dissolve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thissenw
Did you finish your conversion? And if so, did you change your filter media before you added the CYA? Maybe post another complete set of water testing results and tell us latest cl readings at sundown and then again at sunup the next morning.
Day 9: Pool is crystal clear. Total bleach so far = 63.5 gals 6%. Pump pressure steady. FC dropped 1.5 ppm and CC unchanged overnight. FC drops to 0 by noon each day, so I added the CYA to reduce daytime usage. Slight movement in CYA yesterday. Plan to check it tomorrow. I'll change the sand in 8-10 days. It looks like the end is in sight.
Here are the overnight readings:
Thur 7:30pm
7 ppm FC
0.5 ppm CC
7.2 pH
Thur 6:30am
5.5 ppm FC
0.5 ppm CC
7.2 pH
Day 10: Pool is crystal clear. Total bleach so far = 65.5 gals 6%. Pump pressure steady. Pool has reached equilibrium: overnight FC drops 1-2 ppm, and CC is unchanged. FC drops to 0 by noon next day. Adding 2 gals 6% about 5pm, and checking levels after dark. Expect to keep this up until the CYA rises and I change the sand in 7-8 days. CYA still below detection point, but seems to be increasing. It's been 4 days since I added 3 lbs, and I'm surprised it hasn't registered yet.
Overnight readings:
Fri 8pm
7 ppm FC
0.5 ppm CC
7.2 pH
Sat 8am
5 ppm FC
0.5 ppm CC
7.2 pH
CYA takes a long time to dissolve even in a clean filter, but you'll be surprised when you change your sand out just how much goo the Baquacil causes--it's not surprising to me that the CYA is not dissolving and registering faster than that.
Are you sure you didn't do any backwashing after you put the CYA in?
Janet
I backwashed prior to adding CYA, according to the instructions.Quote:
Originally Posted by aylad
The readings have been pretty consistent; overnight FC drops 1-2 ppm, and CC is unchanged at about .5 ppm. FC drops to 0 by noon next day. I think the pool is clearer than it's ever been. I plan to make final checks tonight, and change the sand tomorrow. I watched the pool guys do it a few years ago, and it doesn't seem to difficult (just cold and messy). Are there any gotchas? Is there a procedure I should follow? Thanks so much for all the help with this process!!!
Oh, one more question...I've seem a number recommendations on the appropriate CYA value. I was planning to shoot for 30 ppm. Is this reasonable?
Congratulations on your conversion. You're going to be so glad that you took the time to do this. When you get ready to change out your sand, drain the filter and then use a shop vac to suck the old sand out. When you refill the filter with clean sand, partially fill the filter with water before adding any sand -- maybe 1/4 full of water. This helps to protect the laterals and inside piping inside your filter and also allows the sand to be distributed more evenly. Then, as you add your 200# of sand (or whatever amount your filter calls for), the water may come out the top of the filter to allow you to add the full amount of needed sand.
One other note I might mention here for some of our new members who may not know this. It is not necessary to replace your sand every year like some pool stores will encourage you to do. I am on my 11th season with the same sand and I think my fellow mod Poconos is on his 13th year with his. I also think CarlD has had his same sand for awhile but I don't know how long. Just an FYI.
Edit: OOPS! I forgot to answer your question about CYA levels. 30 is a good initial level to shoot for. If you find that you are having trouble making it through a hot sunny day without losing all your chlorine, you may decide to bump it up just a little more. But, wait and see before making that decision. It is always easy to add more CYA but no good way to remove it other than doing a partial drain and refill.
I know this probably seems unnecessary to post, but I'll do it anyway since I learned the hard way--after you get everything all filled up and ready to go, make sure you start your pool up in backwash mode. This will eliminate filling your newly converted pool with sand. You can read more about my experience here http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...d-the-hard-way.......
but let me assure you that it was one of the worst feelings I've ever had as I watched my crystal clear pool turn into a mud pit literally before my eyes...
Janet
I replaced the sand yesterday, and added 1/2 gal 12.5% bleach and 18oz of CYA. Everything looks good, except CL drops to near zero during the day. The pre-sand check showed CYA below measurment level. I'm tempted to add a gallon of Leslie's fast-acting stabilizer, but I'm concerned I might overdo the CYA. Any comments on that? Now ready for some warm weather. Thanks for all the help.
Patience, patience, patience!! That's the hardest part of this whole thing sometimes!! :)
Your Cl is going to drop to near zero during the day until your CYA is there to protect it from the sun. I would not add any of the fast-acting stabilizer since you've already added the granular form, because if you overshoot your CYA target, the only way you're going to be able to lower it is drain/refill. Just add your bleach every day (at night if possible to give it the most time to be effective, and then again in the afternoon if it's at zero) and give the CYA a few days to dissolve. You've put all this work into a beautiful, clean pool--don't get in a hurry and create a whole 'nother problem for yourself! :)
Janet