More than Algae

I think we need some serious help and guidance here people!!!

Our pool is a liner pool with 37500 gal of currently neon green sludge!!! Before we went on vacation, the water was clear and a welcome relief after a day at the office. After 10 days on vacation, and the next 8 days of consecutive rain, beware, the "Neon Green Monster" has arisen!!!

First of all, we found out that the "clorine sticks" our "Pool Guy" has been selling us for years is loaded with stablizer, and the CYA was +- 120. After about two weeks and 24 gallons of 12.5% liquid chlorine shock, the cya is still +- 90 and the chlorine is +-0.5 with the PH at +- 7.2. Our "Neon Green Friend" is still with us. Also in the process, I had to replace our Jacuzzi Triclops TC 450 innards and do a conversion to a TC 440 due to a filter cartridge problem (green algae through the return. Most likely caused by over-pressurization of the filter cartridges which resulted in the rubber bottoms warping on two of the three units). Even though we are doing it blind (cannot see through the water), we have vaccumed and scrubbed almost every day (pool was off for a day while we got the parts for the filter).

We are putting in 6 gal of "super shock" at a time, but only at night. We took a sample to the Leslie's Pool Store and tested the water. The fellow there told us we also had high (1000 ppm) phosphate, and advised we use "Phosout". Help!!!

1) what is the effect of Phosphate in the water.

2) Are we underchlorinating?

3) Is there any way to get the CYA down besides draining our pool? We are on a well, and this time of year we can run into danger of running our well dry if we run the water.

4) so far we have put 2 4lb boxes of "Borax" in the pool, and the PH is still only at +- 7.2. Do we have to get the PH up before the chlorine will stay up (or do we just throw in some Viagra and call it a day)???

Please give us any advice and/or help you can think of.

Thank you.

PS

We are using both a test kit with the drops and strips.

First of all, welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place and we can help you get this cleared up. (BTW -- I merged your two threads to keep it all together. After you post, if you think of something else you need to add or need to fix a typo or whatever, you can click on the edit button in the lower right instead of starting a new thread.)

If your pH is at 7.2, that is fine for now. Actually, when you are fighting algae, that is a good level. You can bump it up a little after the swamp monster is tamed. Just keep an eye on it and make sure it stays above 7.0.

Unless you have added water, your cya would not have dropped. Who knows how high it really is. Testers typically only go to 100 so there really is no way to differentiate 100 from 120 from 150, etc. The only way to lower it is to do a partial drain and refill. (But do NOT totally drain a vinyl pool.)

You are underchlorinating. With a cya as high as yours is, you need to be shocking up to 25. Adding chlorine once a day isn't gonna do it. You need to be testing and adding as much liquid chlorine as you need to get back to 25 ppm as many times a day as you can. The key to killing algae is to sustain the high cl reading. A minimum of twice a day at the very least and more often is even better and will clear this up even faster. In your pool, a gallon of 12.5% liquid chlorine will add 3.3 ppm of cl.

Especially if you are gonna run high cya levels, you need a good test kit that will test high cl levels and also will test cya. We recommend the Taylor K-2006. If you get it at Amazon through the following link, Pool Forum makes a little money in the process.

http://faq.poolforum.com/products

BTW -- What is the ingredient in the super shock you are using? If is dichlor, you don't want to use that. It is also stabilized and will further add to your cya issue. Just stick with liquid chlorine.

Phosphate remover is the latest wallet depleter pushed by the pool store. You don't need it.

Run your pump 24/7 while you are fighting algae. And, uh ........... I don't think the viagara is gonna help! Repost with further questions and let us know how things are going.

My dearest Watermom,

I am writing with my best wishes for a long and hardy life with lots of pool advice. The "Neon Green Monster" seems to have pulled it's tail between it's legs and vanished into the great beyond, or where-ever he goes to hide until the next round. I guess he could not take the 8 gallons of 12.5% chlorine 3 times a day since the 29th ( do not forget the 38 bottles prior to that over the prior 9 days ( yes, 110 bottles and the pool is finally clear)!!!

However, (and there is always a however) my chemical readings are a bit baffling. As I did the chlorine, I filled the small tube on the test kit as instructed, counted in the 5 drops of reagent #1, then added 5 drops of reagent #2. the water in the tube first turned a lovely shade of magenta ( that would be bright pink), then immediately went clear!!! When I added the 5 drops of reagent #3, to my surprise, the water went first to bright yellow and continued to get darker until it hit almost brown mud!!! Alrighty now, I decided to test my abilities on some other areas as well. The ph, after adding the 5 drops was a bright purple, and the CYA was somewhere in the middle between the 40 & 80 marks, I would guess around 65. Just for HA-HA's I took out a test strip. LOOK OUT!!! Total hardness (meaningless as it is because I have a vinyl liner) was around the 200-250 mark, just right. The total chlorine was baffling again. The little color pad was dark yellow on the outside and dark green (almost black) in the middle!! The free chlorine was off the chart purple (if I had to guess, around 14-16). The PH also was off the chart purple, most likely around a 9. THe alkalinity was perfect at 80, but the CYA was darker than the 300!!!

OMG - in texting language, that would be "OH MY GOD"!!! What now?? Do I lighten up on the shock now that the "Neon Green Monster" has left the house (I would presume so)? Should I also just give the pool a few days to get it's head screwed on right, let the pump run 24/7 and wait 3-4 days? Or do I run to the "Pool Guy" yelling "HELP, HELP" -----NOT!!!

Any thoughts??

Most admirably,

Funtimeken

P.S.
I hope I do not end up in the "Hall of Shame" due to this one!!!

I just modded in your post and wanted to let you know Mom will check in after work later this afternoon. I haven't been following this situation so I can't help.
Al

It sounds like you are using a DPD chlorine test where you compare the color of the sample to a standard which is varying shades/intensity of pink/red. High chlorine levels will bleach out DPD which explains the flash of pink turning to clear. The dark color after R-0003 reagent indicates high CC though the very high FC may be interfering with that somewhat.

You really should have a better test kit with a FAS-DPD chlorine test. If you don't have a Taylor K-2005 test kit already, then get the Taylor K-2006 which you can get from Amazon here. If you already have the K-2005, then you can get the Taylor K-1515-C kit from Amazon as well (same link as above, but then search All Departments for "Taylor K-1515". The FAS-DPD chlorine test will not bleach out (extra powder is added if you see a flash of pink) and it can measure up to 50 ppm and can measure with an accuracy of 0.5 or 0.2 ppm depending on sample size.

In the meantime, you can dilute the pool water sample with distilled water (even tap water would be OK, though would increase the reading a little but since it's so high already that's not a big problem) so if you use 1 part pool water with 4 parts distilled water, then you multiply the result of your tests by 5.

Ken,
Glad the pool is clear! Algae monsters can't take the high cl levels and retreat as you have found. Now, you just have to make sure it never comes back by diligently maintaining proper water chemistry. Chem Geek has steered you towards the test kits we recommend. Hope you'll consider getting a good kit. It will make taking cared of your pool a lot easier.

Try the dilution method and see if you can get some readings and then repost.

BTW -- I merged your new post into the original thread. Better to keep all the information together to make it easier for us to help.

Hi Mom,

Thanks for the info. I will try the dilution to see what happens. Also, could you or someone else please explain the difference between the "DPD" test kit which I have (from 2001 by the way), and a "FAS-DPD" test kit? I am really not sure what the difference is. I tired to look and Googled it, but it really was not much help.

Thanks.

Funtimeken

With the DPD test, you add drops of two different reagents to a water sample, mix, then compare the color to those shown on the side of the test block. You are limited as to how high of a chlorine level you can read. (I think most can read up to 5ppm.)

With the FAS-DPD test, you add a scoop of powder to a water sample which turns it pink and then add drops of a different reagent until the sample turns clear, counting drops as you go. Your reading is the number of drops X 0.2 or 0.5 depending on how much of a water sample you use. You can test much higher chlorine readings with FAS-DPD up to at least 50 or more.

Hope this info helps clarify. My recommendation is to get a FAS-DPD kit -- the Taylor K-2006 is the one we suggest.

You can see how the FAS-DPD test works in a demo shown in this link.

Hi Mom,

Just a quick note to keep you up to date. I tried both the regular and the diluted methods of testing. The regular is still a waste, but vibrant and wonderful colors!!! The diluted method resulted in the FC higher than the 5ppm on the test kit, and the TC the same. There was no change overnight. I guess at this point, we just keep the pump running and let it do it's thing. I also will be getting a FAS kit. Thank you to you and Chem-Geek for the info. It was very helpful.

Yours forever,



Funtimeken

Hi Mom,

Just another update for you. At this point, the pool is still very clear and the cl is still over 5ppm, but no where the high levele it was at. I just tested it and it looks to be about 8-10 ppm. The PH is great at 7.5. The CYA is still off the charts. I have read that the test kit reagents generally have a shelf life of about 1 year, and you should start each year with freash reagents. Is tere any truth to this, or is it just another one of the "Pool Guy's" lines? If it is just a line, I will order my new FAS kit now. If it is true, I will most likely wait until next year, because we will be closing up the pol in a few weeks.

Thanks for the help.

Fondly,

Funtime

Not Watermom, but just wanted to post this link that may help you out with the shelf life question...
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=9874

I personally am using reagents that are anywhere from 2-4 years old, with equal readings if tested with new ones. I keep my reagents in a cool, dark cabinet in the house.

Janet