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I went today to get my tap water tested for phosphates & metals. The guy at the pool store GAVE me a bucket of Sodium Tetraborate. Since it was free, I took it! After thinking about it, the name sounds familiar.
Is this stuff the same as Borax? The brand name on it is ProTeam Supreme.
From Ben's Tip#2:
Quote:
Borax (20 Mule Team brand) is several dollars cheaper than a patented, branded material also containing 100% sodium tetraborate and is a good substitute for "PH-UP" -- especially in spas -- and is at least $0.50/lb. cheaper.
BINGOQuote:
Originally Posted by bassadict69
The folks at ProTeam love their borates, it seems to be their panacea for just about any pool problem (except low pH, though that's the only thing I know it works for:) ) In fairness, I cannot say that their products don't perform as advertised, we just started using/ carrying their line at the end of last season, so the only thing I have personal experience with is the Winter Kit (Results - the same as our regular closing chems - some pools open swampy, some slightly green, and some clear). One last thing, it isn't exactly the same as Borox is sodium deca (maybe penta?)borate... but what's a few borates between friends ;)
Main difference between 20 mule team and the borates sold as miracle pool additives is the price and the number of water molecules attached to the borax molucule. This just means that on a weight for weight basis one will supply SLIGHLY less borate. Their action once dissoved is indentical if the ppm borate is the same. Considering the HUGE difference in price I will stick to borax! Some of the pool additives use a mixture of sodium and potassium tetraborate but this really has no impact on it's effects. Probably more a price thing for the manufacturer.
(Yes, I admit that I like to read MSDS for fun. You can learn a lot that way!)
This guy went on & on about how this stuff helps the chlorine to no have to work as hard...makes the water softer...helps to not dry out your skin & burn your eyes...etc...etc...etc.
Heck it was free! So I guess it will save me a feww dollars by not having to buy Borax for awhile.
I was told by our local pool store that if I used 50 lbs. of ProTeam Supreme in my 25,000 gallons pool that I would never again have the algae problem I had this spring when I opened my pool. It was green with algae floating. Does anyone think he is right?
Teja, I'm sure lots of people think he's right - everybody at ProTeam, my boss and his wife and other lost, gullible souls. ;) (See my response above). If you can't tell by my tone, I'm a little miffed with ProTeam (before I start flaming, I think I'll just take this line of thought to the china shop)Quote:
Originally Posted by teja1946
Did your dealer tell you that you'd also have to add 37.5 lbs of dry acid (sodium bisulfate) along with the 50lbs of Pro Tease? That's 87.5 lbs of chems all at once!!! :eek: The ONLY things I would add over 10 lbs of at 1 time are 1) water and 2) salt, for a SWG (SWCG :) )!
Between my 2 posts here, you should be able to ask your dealer a few pertainent ?s - hope you have better luck than I've had getting a straight, logical answer from him :rolleyes: - Waste
(look for a new flame in the 'China Shop' latter today)
He did tell me to add the ProTeam at 10lbs. per day along with 2lbs of PH reducer for every 10lbs. of ProTeam. I would use Borax and do this if it would prevent the green floating algae I had this spring. However a few gallons of bleach and filtering along with brushing I had the pool clear in 3 days.
Teja, in answer to your ? 'will adding borates to the pool absolutely prevent the algae,esp the floating clumps or strands?' The answer is NO! Just a couple of hours ago I opened a pool which had a thin coat of algae on the bottom and the clumps floating on the surface (however the water was crystal clear). The homeowner came out an asked why the pool was green when he had paid extra to have the 'oxygen out stuff' (ProTeam/ borates) added to the pool. On the other hand, his water tested 'ballanced', which with over 1' of rain in the past 2 weeks, was a little supprising :cool:, other folks we've opened have needed to increase both pH and alk. (Can't even do an "f-test" [statistics speak] on this 1 sample, but perhaps it does help the pool, even if it doesn't fully keep the algae at bay, and last year the pool was much further to the 'swamp side' of green than this year [and he opened 3 weeks later this year] and other pools without the borates have been much worse)
However, I'll still refer to them as Pro Tease til I get some straight answers ;)
Waste,Quote:
Originally Posted by waste
Perhaps the levels of nitrates and phosphates in the water are coming into play here. (Might be interesting to track them) If there is enough algae "food" then algae cangrow. The conept of what is the 'limiting factor' affecting the algae growth is most likely coming into play. Oxygen level of the water is just one of the factors that affect algae growth. If the nutrient levels are high then you could possibly still get some growth.
"Food" for thought on this subject:rolleyes::D
Evan, quick response!
I came back just to check the post # (I plan on updating the China Shop rant to include what I've newly posted here). I remember a thread about 'limiting factor', but haven't 'loaded' it into my knowledge base - perhaps I should give it another look. Thanks for the immediate and, as per usual informative, input :) However, they claim that 'you will not have any algae in the pool when you open it', this is completly untrue! I realize that there are 'other factors' involved, but they make a claim that can not, and is not supported (I'm sure you are right about the 'food'). Most pools I open that are 'swampy' have a lot of leaves,etc on the mesh cover, and the cover has standing water on it (thanks to all the rain we've recently recieved). I'm sure you are on to the cause of the problem. Thanks for all your help, not only here, but throughout the forum! :)
They are not the first company to do so and won't be the last. See if you can figure out the company that has this misleading statement on their pristine website....Quote:
Originally Posted by waste
"When considering no-chlorine in your pool or spa, look for products that are EPA registered. Products that bear an EPA registration number have undergone extensive third-party testing to prove their effectiveness."
Isn't that enough to make you feel blue?:rolleyes: Just what exactly are they saying there anyway?
or the 'natural' company with all the magic and perfect products that states time after time on their website....
"Clear, Perfect Water…
Unconditionally Guaranteed!"
Somehow the 'chemistry' just isn't there for me with this guarantee unless you are talking about bleach, borax and baking soda!
Marketing hype is nothing new. Companies make unsubstantiated claims all the time and not just in the pool industry. Unfortunately it leaves it up to us, concerned consumers and caring professionals, to try and figure this whole mess out on our own and when we do to spread the word to others in venues such as this forum that allow us to exchange our ideas and findings with each other.