The Great Tetraborate Experiment!

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Originally Posted by vgg659

I will soon install a SWCG, and am very interested in this experiement.

To verify, my optimum target readings should be...
TA 80-90 ppm (before stabilizer correction)
TA 70 ppm (after stabilizer correction)
CH 220-250 ppm
Borates 50 ppm?

Correct? Am I missing something?

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Every pool is different and your calcium level is also important in where your TA is. Stabilizer correction will subtract between 20-30 ppm from your TA, depending on your CYA level so you want to have your TA between 80-110 uncorrected or between 60-80 corrected. (The borates also add a bit to your uncorrected TA.
Keep the pH at 7.6-7.7.
Borates between 30-50 ppm.
Calcuim should be slighly higher if you run the TA lower. If your TA is at the higher end then run the calcum arourn 220, if your TA is at the lower end then run the calcium higher (300 or so). If your calcium is higher because of your fill water or new plaster then you can get away with running your TA at the low end. (maybe as low as 70 uncorrected.)
I have not plugged these values into Richard's spreadsheet but from my experience with my customers pools they work! It's a pool, not a recipe for Angel Food Cake!:D

Every pool is different. Get the system up and running and get the borates and pH in range. See where your calcium is to get an idea of how low to go with your TA. If your calcuim is on the low end put your TA around 90-110 before stabilizer correcton and see how your acid usage is, then lower it about 10 ppm at a time and see if the pool becomes more stable. If your calcium is high (above 300 ppm) start your TA at about 80 uncorrected. I have found that if you add acid as soon as the pH hits 7.8 and bring it back to 7.6 you will have much less acid usage than if you let it rise higher. A vinyl or fiberglass pool is going to be much more pH stable than a plaster pool in any case.you will find a point where your pool seems to 'lock in' to a pH around 7.6 or 7.7 and stay there for a while. It will climb but not as fast.

Does the borate affect ORP sensor readings? Sorry if this is an ignorant question (I'm ignorant!). I'm converting from BAQ (started yesterday). I wanna try everything, being an experimenter.

So (1) I want to finish converting from BAQ to CL;
(2) boost the borate;
(3) build a liquid CL dispenser that is controlled by a PC along with an ORP sensor

Thus the question.

For what a peristaltic pump. controller, and orp and pH electrodes will cost why not just install a SWG?

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Originally Posted by waterbear

For what a peristaltic pump. controller, and orp and pH electrodes will cost why not just install a SWG?

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Great question! I had every intention of doing so (would love to do so) but then I read that SWG is not recommended for AG pools due to the metal structures corroding due to salt buildup over time.

Goldline Controls makes the AquaTrol SWGs specifically for AGPs! The pump plugs into the controller (straight plug and twist lock available) and they make cells that either fit into the return or are plumped inline with either flex or hard plumbing.

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Originally Posted by waterbear

Goldline Controls makes the AquaTrol SWGs specifically for AGPs! The pump plugs into the controller (straight plug and twist lock available) and they make cells that either fit into the return or are plumped inline with either flex or hard plumbing.

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I want to be convinced. But is the Goldline Controls AquaTrol SWG OK for older above-ground pools with metal frames / walls? I understand that salt buildup over time can corrode the metal. I tried to google up their web site, but just found sales sites (impatient).

www.goldlinecontrols.com
You can email them and ask. they have contact info on their website.

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Originally Posted by waterbear

www.goldlinecontrols.com
You can email them and ask. they have contact info on their website.

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I tried it; the web site seems to be down.

I was just on their website and it seems to be working fine. Here is their contact info page:
http://www.goldlinecontrols.com/Contact/Default.aspx

They are part of Hayward so they are a major company! I would try calling their support number and asking about the AquaTrol. You don't want to contact one of their distributors, you want to talk to them directly for your questions.

Edit: Here is their support webpage:
http://www.goldlinecontrols.com/Contact/Support.aspx

I just tried calling tech support and they are there!

Hi ,
Today I started my quest to get my borates up to 50 ppm. I went to home depot to get some muriatic acid. The first thing I noticed is that it looks like water. I haven't purchased acid since last season. The acid I had from before was yellow in color. I looked at the ingredients and it has 14.5% acid. Unfortunatly I didn't have any left over acid jugs from last season to see if they lowered the percentage of acid. I know the acid I had before would almost knock you out if you caught a smell of it. This stuff doesn't do a thing. Has anyone else noticed any difference? I am in California Modesto area.
Chem Geek when you calcualted the amount of acid per box of borax what percentage was it for? Maybe this is the reason why I am having to add so much acid to my pool to get a change. If in fact the percentage has changed. Well off to add some borax and acid to the pool. cya