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Today I received my property tax bill (up over a thou to $15,000), got a voicemail from the pool installers saying I need a new heater ($2,800 -silly me, I was saving for an auto-cover pump), got a contract for the next school year with no raise for the 5th consecutive year, and my roof is leaking. I appreciate the life-story and the humor... Sell the dratted boat!
Sounds like you should consider solar panels instead....
Reminds me of the old story about farmer complaining about his barn roof leaking. The other man says "Why don't you fix it?"
He answers: "I can't. It's raining."
The other guy says: "So wait till it's not raining."
The farmer answers: "It doesn't leak then!"
(No criticism implied...just a stream of consciousness remembering.)
Sounds like you need to move to Georgia! (Not including Atlanta! Atlanta is not Georgia; it's San Francisco East!) Not many people working for school boards have properties with tax rates like that. And, given how far under the water Illinois (esp. Chicago) is, it's likely to get worse before it gets better.Quote:
Originally Posted by BromineUser
Being in Georgia wouldn't help there: my wife (elementary teacher) is getting 'furloughed' 3 days next year, but that's an improvement for 5 this year, and 9 (I think) the year before.Quote:
got a contract for the next school year with no raise for the 5th consecutive year
Dark pool covers make MUCH better temporary roof fixes, then blue tarps, if you are going to have to wait a few months.Quote:
and my roof is leaking.
Haha! I lived for one school year in Ringgold back when it was a sleepy little town. I taught in Dalton and "city-ed" in Chattanooga.Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDoc
And THAT is really, really funny, Ben!!! I know just where to find one!Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDoc
Last time I was there, it was *still* a sleepy little town. Not quite as sleepy as Chickamauga where I grew up, but still pretty sleepy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BromineUser
Is it okay if I test pH in the morning ALSO and if it's above 7.2 add more acid per instructions? My aeration is really effective in getting the pH back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDoc
Sure, it's OK. But...it's possible to test/adjust too often. Daily for almost anything is plenty.
Breathe. Relax. You're doing great.
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OFFICIAL instructions for BromineUser from PoolDoc:
Also, do NOT test the pH more than 1x per day.Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDoc
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I'M GLAD YOU ARE THERE, Ben !!!
The only other question I can think of before you get my <150 results is:
I know I can't test pH, so I am wondering how I know when to stop aerating.Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDoc
When it gets below 150, tell us.
Don't worry about over-aerating -- but don't do anything extreme either. (Like hooking up a blower or shop vac.)
A blower or shop vac???!!!! My neighbors would LOVE that... Hope to share good news with you SOON. Thanks again for everything, Ben.
<150! A nice Mother's Day result!
Just in case you want my numbers from last night:
ph 7.3-7.4
FC 1.0
CC 0.2
TA 110
CH 60
Still aerating and adding dichlor nightly.
+ You can stop aerating -- your TA is low enough.
+ You don't need to keep testing for CC unless you want to do so.
+ You should use the 10ml test sample (1 drop = 0.5 ppm). You don't need the additional accuracy, and your reagents will last longer.
After you've used 10 lbs of dichlor, check your CYA level. Before that time, you should see your FC levels not disappearing during the day.
Looking good!
That's where I am now. Waiting 3 days.... Thanks for all your patience! I want to thank you also, Ben, for encouraging me to determine my own dichlor dosages instead of running to the calculator. It's kind of cool to have a little confidence. I will do the same when I switch to bleach.Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDoc
I have quite a few other questions for you guys, though. Do you want them one at a time or in a list?
A list is fine.
Okay.... I know you guys are very busy. Thanks.
1.) You had me purchase 4 qts. of polyquat. Am I to use that weekly on a maintenance level or just keep it on hand in case I see algae?
2.) You also had me get 12 lbs. of calcium hypochlorite. When do I use that?
3.) I have read and read the forum and I still don't understand about shocking. The pool store method was to shock with 3 lbs. of product every week and also to shock before and after large parties. How frequently do I shock with the "BBB" method? Do I only go to shock levels when I think there's a problem? (e.g. CC gets high, can't hold FC, algae appears, water gets cloudy, etc.)
4.) I have not yet purchased the CuLator packs as I was hoping to find a liquid form of HEDP. The pool store method was to add 6 oz. of metal sequestrate weekly. My backwash water is no longer orange. Should I be using a sequestrate at all?
5.) Do I always add a cup or so of DE after backwashing? If so, will I need to keep an eye on my sand? The pool store had me use a cellulose product occasionally and it would turn my sand into a sticky orange mess.
6.) I would still like to add borates to my pool. We like the feel of the water and I read that it can help the water in other ways too. I found this: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthr...9-Borates-Help Post #3 and unless you tell me differently, those will be the directions I follow. When do I start that?
Thanks again so much. My new water is coming along great! I appreciate your patience and generosity in giving us all so much of your time. You really are remarkable people.
A1. If you are algae free, and not seeing metals, you don't have to use the polyquat. However, using small doses of it will help filter out iron particles that may form, because it's a very effective filter aid.
A2. Make 100% sure your feeder is empty. Then, check again. Use borax to gradually raise your pH to 7.8, while continuing to chlorinate. Once your pH is 7.8, begin adding 1/2 lb doses of calcium hypochlorite DIRECTLY to your skimmer, while the pump is on. This 'shocks' the water in the line upstream of the filter, and tends to drop iron out ON your filter. Continuing to use DE during this process will also help pick up remaining iron. Make sure your pump is on 24/7
A3. Avoid shocking the pool for time being, except as noted above.
A4. Stop using a sequestrant. You do not want to KEEP the iron in the water; you want to get it OUT on your filter (per #2 above).
A5. It would be a good idea, till you're pretty sure the iron is gone.
A6. Go to http://pool9.net/borates/
Thanks, Ben! I could not open the pool9 link. My anti-virus will not allow it and tells me: "This URL contains malicious software or phishing and is a site that directly or indirectly facilitates the distribution of malicious software or source code." Is there another way to access the information?
You've got a broken anti-virus program -- which one is it?
Anyhow: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php/18597
1.) It is called Trend Micro Worry-Free Business Security Services. Our school just purchased the service this year. (I'm at work).
2.) In A2 above, I add 1/2 bag doses of calcium hypochlorite.... How frequently do I add a dose? How do I know when to stop?
3.)Thanks for the new link. Do you think the process in A2 above will be enough to clear out any metals or should I do a bucket test for metals before I start adding borates? Also, why do you test fill water?
Thanks again.
Arg-h. No wonder.
My wife, who is a elementary resource teacher (she teaches the ones who are about to fail the standardized test!), can barely access the internet from school. They have the most awkward, cumbersome system I've ever seen. It just got worse, since some kids were able to bring up porn on a number of monitors, recently.
I'm NOT going to worry about the fact that pool9.net is blocked on some school site. Typically those blocks are set to block everything by default and then allow by selection.
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The link works from home just fine.
Anyway, may I send you a picture tomorrow? I now have a question about what looks like iron stains on my stairs. They appeared after a huge rain last night. I still had my pool uncovered through most of the deluge. The water is also looking dull. It also looks slightly tinted but that's when I'm looking towards the stairs and that could be a reflection...?
Okee-Doke! Test results tonight:Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDoc
FC: 2.0
pH: 7.5
TA: 100-110 (did get a little more red with last drop but pretty red at 100)
CH: 60-70
CYA: almost there but I will retest in daylight
What do I do next?!?!
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Thanks for the new handle!
Since I know you guys are busy, please just let me know if I am off base on my next step.
I am thinking that now that my TA is good, I should start using the calcium hypolchorite per instructions to try to reduce metals in the water. My water is dull looking and there is definitely an orange tinge on my stairs.
If you ALREADY have staining, you may want to lift the stains, before using the cal hypo.
However, you can certainly use the cal hypo now, and then again, later.
That might even be best, since it seems to take more than one pass, to lift the stains and then get all the metals out of the water.
Attachment 922
Okay. Heading out now to test pH and add borax. The stains are very light. I think by "lifting stains" you mean sequestrate the metals, so I will buy some HEDP tomorrow. If I am wrong on this, just let me know. Otherwise, no need to respond.
I actually like Atlanta, and the surrounding area. My son interned 2 summers at Georgia Tech and one of us would stay with him in Buckhead for a couple of weeks, then switch off with the other parent. We'd bring our younger one down during the changeover, or all stay there for a week together. Went out to Stone Mountain a couple of times. We didn't see anything like "Deliverance"!
The sculpture at Stone Mountain is amazing. Borglum left it to go do Rushmore but in the details, I like Stone Mtn. better. You had a sweet deal being able to spend time with your son on his internships -most of us can't take that much time. I have spent time (and paddled) around the Chattooga river; it's a beautiful area as long as you don't start humming "Dueling Banjos"...!
Miss the South....
Most of the people I know in Illinois think they're in the south.
. . . while those of us actually IN the South, suffer no such mental confusion! ;)
And, now, back to our regularly scheduled pool discussion:
Metal stain removal has 3 parts:
1. Dissolve the metal stain.
We usually recommend ascorbic acid; Jacks Magic uses sodium bisulfite I think, and there are other reducing agents or acids that work. Most these materials are incompatible with chlorine, and cannot co-exist.
2. Keep the now dissolved metals IN the water, as you rechlorinate. THAT is what HEDP does.
3. Remove the metals from the water. CuLater is the ONLY method we know of to remove the DISSOLVED metals. The other methods require that you 'un-dissolve' them, but 'aim' for the filter OR for a floc (like aluminum sulfate)
Before you buy HEDP, get some vitamin C tabs, and drop them on your steps. If it's iron, the tabs will clear a small spot. (Or, you can put a tablespoon full of Iron Out (sodium dithionite + sodium sulfite) there).
I did both the Vitamin C and Iron Out and I immediately got white spots on my steps! Now what?
Also, I did a round of borax/cal-hypo last night and at some point I would like to talk about that before I do it again.
Update: I went ahead and scoured the steps with ascorbic acid and they are white again! I realize the iron is still in the water. I should receive the CuLator and skimmer basket/liners early in the week and will begin that when they arrive. I also ordered the Lamotte borate test strips; I did not order HEDP. My current numbers are:
FC 1.5
CC 0
pH 7.6
The first time I did the borax/cal-hypo, I left the pH high for a day as the instructions didn't say to lower it again. I did a second dose last night and 2 hours afterward, I added MA. I didn't want to leave my pH so high. Not sure which way I am supposed to do it.
My plan is to do the CuLator and keep the FC 2 or less. Is that right? Do I continue with the cal-hypo or go back to dichlor?
Thanks so much and Go Blackhawks!
1. With the metal in solution, you probably want a middle pH, 7.4 - 7.6.
2. Using the cal hypo in *small* doses, via the skimmer (NO FEEDER WITH TRICHLOR!!), can help bring the metal out, on the filter.
3. Don't allow cal hypo to contact the CuLator packs. You could add cal hypo when you clean the skimmers -- but take the Culator out first.
4. I'd put ALL my Culators in the water, maybe 1 or 2 in the skimmer(s) and any others suspended in near a return, or even resting on the main drain. Don't discard them unless they are discolored or gummed up.
Okay, just to make sure I have this correct. I am supposed to lower my pH to 7.4-7.6 with MA after I do the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolDoc
1.) Doses above is plural and I am pretty literal... How many doses of cal-hypo in a day? I have been doing one and so far I have not yet had to backwash.
2.) How long should I wait after adding dose(s) before adding the MA?
Conflicting ideas.
+ CuLator removes the metal while it's dissolved = lower pH + HEDP
+ Cal hypo via the skimmer removes the metal onto the filter = higher pH
You can't really do both at the same time. If you've used the cal hypo and had some orange (iron) or green/blue (copper) backwash, that's worked. BUT removing metals seems to rarely be a 1-step process. If you've gotten some metals out with cal hypo, good. If you want to continue with it, that's fine, too.
Once you start with the CuLator, a lower pH would be better.
MA dosing => http://pool9.net/ma/
My bad, then. I have reread this thread over and over, and think I have just asked too many questions and things got out of sequence. If I understand you correctly, the CuLators and HEDP are what I should be doing now. I never bought HEDP because I couldn't figure out what product to buy as Kem-Tek discontinued the product you were recommending last month. Is there another option?
The link to the Pink Stuff at Amazon still works:
Kem-Tek 311-6 Pool and Spa 60-Percent Concentrated Algaecide, 1 QuartBut lets focus on basics first. You can use the CuLator regardless: if there is free metal in the water, the bags will capture some of it; if not, they will still work later. So:
Jacks Magic The Pink Stuff 1qt (60% HEDP)
1. Send me a set of *good* pictures of your current conditions. Please go for fully focused. When focusing through water, you may need to place something on the bottom for the camera to focus on -- a stainless steel fork will probably work. If using an iPad, send the pictures *full size* by sending from "Camera Roll*, one at a time, rather than from email. On my iPad3, you can also do it by inserting the pictures, and then going back to the top, tapping the CC line, and selecting the "Actual Size" option.
2. Do a set of tests on the pool, including CYA. It may help if you'll watch the Taylor videos: http://pool9.net/tk-guide http://pool9.net/tk-interfere
3. Go ahead and get the HEDP and the Culators -- but don't use them yet.
4. If you have any sign of algae, say so.
Lets's get your pool cleaned up, clear, and swimmable, and then see about next steps.
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Thanks for responding. A comfort!
1.) I sent 13! pictures. I wasn't quite sure what a *set* of pictures was...
2.) Tests:
FC 1.5
CC 0
pH 7.6
TA 110
CH 90
CYA <30 but getting better
3.) Will order Jack's Pink Stuff today. The link I was referring to was the one for Kem-Tek HEDP that you gave to others. Thanks for the new link.
4.) I see no signs of algae and my pool sides are squeaky, not slimy.
For whatever it's worth, I also stopped by Leslie's. Don't worry, I didn't buy anything! I wanted to see if they had a sequestrant test (my BioGuard store claims to) and they said they didn't. However, they checked my iron levels which registered between 0.3-0.5ppm. I tried to leave, but they checked everything else too. I got the spiel about Natural Chemistry Metal Free and CuLators AND they said my phosphates were at least 1000 and I also needed a phosphate remover after I did the Metal Free and the CuLators... Geez. I forgot just how much I dislike pool stores! They also did a CYA test that had a sliding black dot and told me my CYA was at 20.
Squeaky is GOOD, in vinyl sided pools. Sounds like you're on track.