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I'm not trying to bring politics into this thread, but this sure sounds like something Al Gore would come up with. Global warming and chlorinated pools will be the downfall of us all. Oh well, at least we can stay cooled off in the chlorinated pool until we are done in.
Waterbear
Well below isotonic. Isotonic would be around 9000 ppm if I am doing the math right.Quote:
Such as the salinity found in a salt water pool with about 3000 ppm NaCl? Interesting. I believe this is still below the isotonic point but not sure how much.
So each has its best tolerance of oxydation in the cell membrane as well as the mitochondrial protien formation. I am still reading on the effects of chlorine on celluar structures. I have found a lot of material I still have to read. Yes, I do need to get a life:oQuote:
Actually, the type of algae that grows in a marine aquarium is directly related to the redox potential of the water! This has been documented time and again with ORP meters. With lower ORP readings there is predominently red and blue green algae growth (cyanobacteria) and brown and green algae disappear. As the redox potential rises the red and blue green disappear and brown algae forms (I believe it is related to the Mustard algae in our pools) and finally, as the redox potential rises up to about 450mv the brown disappears and green algae is the predominent form seen.
CarlD
How is the view from under the bed? Enjoyng the dust bunnies? Had to go to L.A. last year and seen some bunnies I would love to get under the bed with. :D
I just cant understand why some one would want to swim in a pool of filth. The pros here spell out the needed levels of chems in a system that works in daily use and theroy. The methods here are easy to follow and help is your keyboard away. I understand this method is not what the pool stores tell you but this method works.;)
Steve
Some pool stores DO use this method! (but we do it with liquid chlorine, alk increaser, and Proteam "Supreme" instead of bleach, baking soda, and borax. Something has to pay my salery!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by medvampire
(and we sell the liquid chlorne at $3.69 for a 2.5 gal refill of 12.5%...cheaper than the ultra bleach we sell....we're a large hardware store with a large and complete pool dept. Everything from chems to equipment and even AG pools!)
Cool
The stores around here push the chems at you. The people here stare at me with gasp when I pour bleach in my pool. They are starting to come around and understand this method.
Steve
Then don't bring politics into it. This is a discussion, in this thread, of measurable evidence and the interpretation thereof, not politically correct left or right check-list positions. Science is science, no matter how the political winds try to bend it to their position.Quote:
Originally Posted by VOLDADDY
Carl,Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlD
It was a joke. My apologies for trying to interject a little humor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlD
While I would like to avoid the politics -- these days they are just far too inflammable -- humor on this topic is not a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by VOLDADDY
Most of you guys here are among the more 'chemically' advance posters, so this is probably a good time and place to say what I want to say.
The fears that people bring to the PoolForum are not, for the most part, irrational fears. Rather they are a rational response to the persistent and hyped anti-chlorine hysteria shrieked out by modern environmentalists and uncritically parroted by the mass media. The environmentalists are being irrational, but the consumers here are not!
What I mean is, they are responding rationally to the information sources which they have! I don't know how things were in the past, but today's media generators range, as an overall group, from the scientifically illiterate to the functionally brain-dead. But, consumers don't know this.
I do; you may; but they don't!
More to the point, they don't have any contradicting information sources, at least till they arrive here. The pool industry isn't going to contradict them, at least not much, because chlorine fears power the sales of chlorine alternatives and blends and pool addititives. The mass media isn't going to contradict them -- even when they know better -- because hysteria and hyped fears draw an audience many times better than a calm and somewhat technical consideration.
So, consumers arrive here knowing that chlorine is dangerous and toxic; knowing that their lives are shortened by its presence in their water and pools, and knowing that the responsible thing to do is to minimize its use, if only they can find an affordable alternative.
For me, and for y'all here, understanding this is critical to understanding what sort of responses consumers, with all their rational chlorine fears, need to be given. A big part of what's needed is to respect their rationality -- I myself need to be reminded of this, because I find the chlorine hysteria so tiresome.
So, each of you, please remind yourselves that, as irrational as much of the anti-chlorine hysteria is in its origin, yet that those fears are an entirely rational response on the part of most of the newbies here.I could ramble on about why this is so, what I think about our education system, and so forth. But it's simply not relevant.
- Please also remember that, even among college graduates, it is only a tiny minority who have the training, of mind and habit, think critically and skeptically about this issue.
- Most college educated adults have functional math skills at the level of 1st year algebra OR LESS.
- Most college educated adults have no training whatsoever that allows them rank relative risks.
- Most college educated adults will readily accept the statement, "No price is too high to pay to save a life". Nor will they be able to see any inconsistency between accepting that statement, and then declining to pay $1000 extra for side air bags on their new car.
When they arrive here, most newbies are -- given the skills they have, and the information available to them -- acting rationally when they express fears about chlorine.
I need to, and you all need to respect that rationality, and help to redirect it by providing better information, and perhaps, better analytical skills.
Thanks,
Ben
Ben:
I have to contradict you:
A small extreme portion of the environmentalists are anti-chlorine--but those people are against ANY chemical usage, as irrational as that sounds.
I like to think of myself as somewhat environmentally aware and responsible (Hey! MY pool is heated with sunshine--as "green" as it gets!) but I would never advocate dropping chlorine usage until a PROVABLE replacement of similar quality is available--and bromine ain't it!
I will have to whole heartily agree with the pool doc on the media hype surrounding chlorine. When I came top this forum I had bought in to the Nature 2 hype hook and sinker. I was overjoyed at the prospect of just running a 0.5 ppm chlorine level and thinking it was the best thing for my future step kids. I was against the getting the pool at first because of the chemical exposure to my self and the kids. (DHMO:D )
Being the geek I am I started reading on the net about the Nature 2 and the use of chlorine for pools and stumbled upon this forum. Being skeptical by nature I thought the first reading I did while was a bunch of hog wash. I went home and thought about it (girl friend asked about the gear grinding noise and smoke:rolleyes: ) and the light flickered and begin to burn as the pieces came together.
Working in a medical lab I am constantly exposed to chemicals so I have to have a some what good understanding of the chemical hazards and effects of chemicals on various body systems. The media and environmental groups scream about the dangers of chlorine but what are the effects of the other pool chemical systems on the environment and the human body? Are these system totally non hazardous? I doubt these systems if capable of sanitizing pool water have no effect on these systems.
But that is just my humble 2 cents.
Thanks again for opening my mind to a better and safer way of protecting my family because bottom line here is to keep people from getting sick while having fun in a body of stagnet water. I do enjoy the side effect of glass like water with the sun dancing across the surface.
CarlD
Better living through chemistry.:D
Steve
LOL!
Just remember Ben's rule: THE most dangerous chemical, by far in ANY pool is the di-hydrogen monoxide
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the water;)