Neighbors and Pool Installation (LONG)

Jeffski -

I hear you - I totally was REALLY nice - you can read the letter I got from them on my link in my signature (last page) and then you can read the letter I sent them back. You can also see pictures of their yard, etc.

I have NO problem doing the right thing - when I know about it and they are allowing us to fix it. We really are trying to be good neighbors because I am not moving anytime soon. The whole process from fix the last house to put on the market, build a new house, finally get the old house sold, then fix this house how we want is has been going on since Feb. 2005- I need some rest:) (and so does my wallet:) )

Update - well world war three has begun again.....

Tuesday - I noticed one of their sprinkler heads as broken again. I went over and talked with the guy - he said "it's been like that for 2 weeks". Told him we would have it fixed this week - and in the future please tell us since I had just noticed it. (This was at 5pm)

6pm: They asked us if we were using propane - I said yes. The guy says "so your burrying the tank" - I say "no - the city wouldn't give us a permit for a burried tank - but we are planning on putting something around it like a fence." Guy says "well that will be great to look at" - I ask "a fence? We don't want to look at it - so we are going to put up a fence" - He says "well you don't have windows on that side of the house." So I repeat "we are going to put up a fence as soon as the HOA approves the installation"

He continues "well there is a problem with the grade - we have water pooling between the houses" I state - "well when we had the rain storm (2" in about 4 hours) I came out and everything was draining fine" He continues to rant - I tell him "we will have the pool company look at it"

9:45pm - door bell rings - the have turned on their sprinklers and they have water pooling between the houses - remember - this is the area where there is a BROKEN sprinkler head. I tell them that we will call the pool company and have them come out and look at it. They start getting agitated and start complaining about the water again - so I say "It's 9:45 at night - there is nothing I can do about it now. I will call the pool company in the morning and let them know that you are concerned about the grade and to come out and look at it"

TODAY - okay they have told the sprinkler company to not come on their property to fix the sprinklers - that they are going to hire their own company and then make us pay for it. I guess this was because the guy called our sprinkler repair person and told them "Our sprinkler system is completly off-line and we cannot water our lawn and it is dying" and the sprinkler guy told him that it was one head and that the system works - since he has seen them turn it on 2 days ago. So the neighbor got mad at him and told him to not come on his property. Too bad - the sprinkler guy had already fixed the head before the guy called him. Wonder what they are going to do now????:confused:

Oh my gosh what a nightmare for you. Sounds like these are some of the most miserable people on the planet... nothing to do but complain about everything. :rolleyes:
It sounds to me like you have gone WAY out of your way to be cooperative during this process. I mean, what did they expect??
And re: the grass dying, HELLO, they could use a hose and sprinkler like those of us who don't have the LUXURY of a sprinkler system!
They will probably rip out the new sprinkler head just for spite. :eek:

Ok, done helping you in your rant!! :D

I hate to say it...

But it seems like they may be going after you for an entire new lawn (and possibly landscaping as well), due to the sprinkler system being down. You have bent over backwards, but it was not good enough. I've no doubt that whatever agreement you come to will never be good enough and that as long as you continue to "make good" that you will prolong your own agony...and (I'd bet) they'll continue to throw more and more demands at you as well.

I would kindly inform them that you will not be continuing with this any more. I would offer up no explanations or appologies...it seems that this will only add fuel for them to come at you with further demands.

I'd also seek legal advice on how to bring this to an end.

good luck,
dan

Wow! What a couple of wackos. We haven't started construction of our pool yet, but I hope our "good" neighbor doesn't turn out like yours. Before I spent another dime on sprinkler repairs and pineapple plants, I would spend money to consult with an attorney. I'll bet once he sends them a nice letter indicating that you are willing to return their property to its original condition -and nothing more, their shenanigans will stop. I'm sure he will also point out their duty to mitigate any damage. In other words they can't refuse to run their entire sprinkler system and let their yard die because of a couple of broken sprinkler heads and then expect you to replace their yard.

I wouldn't worry about trying to appease these people any more. After everything they've put you through, I doubt you're ever going to be one big, happy Wisteria Lane neighborhood.

Now they have called the city building department about the grade being incorrect. The only reason I know about it is because the head inspector for the building department went to high school with our project manager. I have no idea what this guy expects...

The pool builder tells me that the grade matches the initial survey on our property - but DH and I will check it tonight anyway - How do you determine height without a surveyor? My foundation is supposed to be at 16.33' and the side yard is supposed to be at 15.5' - do I take a stake and run a string and measure the difference?

Neighbor guy left a couple of voice mails on my cell this morning (I was in meetings) about how rude our sprinkler people were and that they don't return his calls - then they call him at work and yell at him...

I call him back and he starts ranting - so I say "well there are always to sides to the story, but I am sorry that he upset you - but from what I understand the sprinkler head that was broken is already fixed" He continues with - "he called me at work!" - I apologize again (god I hate these people) - I get him to agree that he will meet up with us tonight to make sure that the installation is acceptable. Probably won't be - but at least we can come to an agreement - and I will send it over in writing. Then if they keep it up - I will have our attorney issue them a letter to send all correspondence through him - This is such a pain:mad:

i agree that it's time to take it to an attorney. likely for 150 dollars max you can get a letter from the lawyer to them if you provide a quick chronological sequence of events from start to present on paper. i'm not a lawyer, but have been involved enough with lawyers/hr folk in issues with people who work for me or my reports to know that:

a) when someone starts putting things on paper, there's a reason.

b) there is also a reason that they pepper with words like "anxiety".

a few bucks now will safeguard you down the road from any potentially more expensive issues.

Update - met with the guy tonight and took video of all the sprinklers working correctly - he still seems to think that the grade is not right. So we are going to move some dirt, but it looks like it is draining correctly. We live in a swamp that was filled to build houses, so the drainage is not great anyway.

Gas company rescheduled us until next Tuesday - so we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

This is so sad. All the drainage problems I had with my three neighbors at the back corner of my property are all nicely resolved. We worked it out, I don't believe there are any hard feelings, and it's all done. I literally had a swamp growing because the landscaper popped open and artesian spring, and walked away. The customer (my neighbor) also had a soggy yard so solving HIS problems with the landscaper solved part of mine. The rest were solved by me splitting repairs with my next door neighbor and the catty-corner one having HIS landscaper adjust things.

Sometimes people ARE better than you expect. Sometimes they are worse.

meant to mention having read the letter they provided to you that at least on paper they still appear to be relatively cordial (More cordial than i thought they would be at given the situations you've had with them)..but, it still appears this issue is being "papered" for backup if necessary.

You have a LOT of patience! :)

I would have told my neighbor, "Suck it, Trebeck!" a long time ago.

You have a mild one, believe it or not. There's no sense going into long tales of the problems I've had with the psycho#@%^& next door to me. Suffices to say, agreement or not, you are using THEIR property and as such you need to be like the ultimate visitor. Doing everything you can possibly think of to calm the situation and make it as painless as possible for them. Get a new high quality hose and nozzle and spinkler. Make sure the nozzle is similar to the one they had. Ask them politely when they will be home that the spinkler could be turned on and make the appointment yourself. Pick up the debris and do it every day - they shouldn't have to ask. Give them a check for the pineapple stuff they listed. Make damn sure the sod is pefect - give him a bag of scotts turf builder when it's done. Believe me, your responsiveness will go a long way to settling the Hatfield's complaints. If you don't, your being the McCoys' and the feud will continue for as long as they live there. Even if you only succeed in making temporary peace, you will be on the right side morally. It's obvious from your reactions to events that you are indeed reacting somewhat negatively. I know how hard it is to not react negatively - be above the fray. Some will never be satisfied and this may be one of those. If you are making all of the good faith overtures, they will probably react differently. As a final note, keep checking on them like senior citizens. Go and ask them - daily if necessary - if thing are ok and work to resolve their issues. In other words, turn the other cheek as often as it takes to get through this. You won't regret it as long as they live there/

On the point of the legalities, keep records of what your doing to keep the peace. If it ends up in small claims or civil court, being able to show you went above and beyond will defray any claims he has. As far as the drainage is concerned, you cannot claim adding the pool and other items has not changed your properties drainage - as a result, he can easily claim you caused problems - it may be incorrect but the change makes it a real possibilty in the courts eyes. If you have to add drainage pipe and a flow out grate or pop up flow out cover do it. Again, in court - being able to say do did everything possible to address his complaints and went above and beyond leaves him claimless.

In my case, things ultimately eroded to the point where the police and the Township Building Department were called several times. Once they saw what I was doing to mitigate the situations, both told me they were surprised how much I had done, apologized to me for the trouble and went next door to tell her she didn't have a leg to stand on and that she should be grateful she had such a good neighbor - I know this because I sat and talked with one of the officers over a coffee on a following visit. If I had to supeona the Officers or Township in a lawsuit, she would have looked awfully silly. I eavesdropped on conversation she was having with a lawyer in her backyard. He told her she could not win with the amount of effort I had put into mitigating her complaints.

Again - stay above the pettiness. Go above and beyond and do not respond by being even slightly negative to their pettiness.

Update -

Well I spent about three hours moving dirt last weekend until they liked it. They didn't like the fact that there was water puddling in OUR yard????

Anyway - they are not talking to us again - since our propane tank was installed above ground. Nevermind the city wouldn't let us burry it - I guess that is our fault too. We have to wait for the home owner's association approval before we can install the fence. Also - the sod is 2 weeks late - all the water here means that it's too wet to cut the sod from the fields and... then with a tropical storm coming - it will probably be another couple of weeks.

I just want to get this finished!

Weel, the neighbours didn't vote for the guys who won't let you bury the tank, so it MUST be your fault!!!! What a pain, I would prefer to have a tank buried myself but if you can't do it, you can't do it.

DaveD has a good perspective though. Make them be the unreasonable ones and they won't have any sympathy from anyone.

The HOA let you install the pool without approving the fence first?

The HOA understands that a fence is going to be required when putting in a pool, however, tehy feel tehy have the final say as to how the fence should look - another reason I absolutely can NOT stand living in cookie cutter subdivisions, they slowly kill your individuality!
Move to the country - the air is fresher, the people are happier, your neighbour will HELP you instead of fight you and if you do end up with a big RUT in your lawn, he'll only join you on his dirtbike to help make it even BIGGER!

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Originally Posted by matt4x4

Move to the country - the air is fresher, the people are happier, your neighbour will HELP you instead of fight you and if you do end up with a big RUT in your lawn, he'll only join you on his dirtbike to help make it even BIGGER!

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If I could afford the big house, the pool, on the land I want - that's where I would be. Unfortunately - I took the big house and a pool over a small house/no pool/ and a large yard to mow:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeffski

The HOA let you install the pool without approving the fence first?

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Wasn't planning on the fence until the neighbors started getting all upset - now we think it's the best. We got the pool approved by the HOA in November - we closed on our home in December (it was new construction), sold our old house in May and then started construction on the pool. Figured out in July we needed the fence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simmons99

Update -

Anyway - they are not talking to us again -

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Now THERE is the best news you've had so far. Keep it that way. You aren't going to please these folks no matter how much you exceed your legal and/or ethical obligations. Keep doing the basics to restore their actual property to its pre-pool condition. Don't suck up anymore (the wine) and don't act overly eager to please them. Remain pleasant (grit your teeth) and civil but keep your distance and generally treat their more outlandish requests as amusing and mildly annoying.

These folks are always going to be nuts, and possibly your neighbors for a long time. If they are going to feud, let them be the only ones engaged in it. Enjoy your pool and good luck with this whole mess.

Update - since we have had all this rain - all the sod fields have been under water so we were having a REALLY hard time getting sod. Last week I finally found a place that that would sell it to me for double the going rate - I took it.

The neighbors have been calling the city engineer (the inspector wouldn't listen to them) daily stating that they don't want us to be allowed to get final inspection until their yard is completed. The city engineer hasn't contacted me (I found out about this through our pool builder) - but my impression I got from the PB was that he was on the neighbor's side. Then again the neighbors told him that we haven't fixed the sprinklers yet ($#%#&:mad: liars..) and that the grade isn't completed.... then the sod.

Anyway - spent all weekend laying the sod and then watering the sod - I don't want to talk to them - they saw us laying the sod - so they know it's installed.

We had final yesterday - DH told me that the inspector was telling the PB something he didn't want to hear - maybe they have to re-grade the area - this sucks! I spent Friday night, Saturday morning, Saturday night, and half of Sunday laying sod and they might have to tear it up ..... and people wonder why prohibition didn't work... I need a vacation:cool:

Did you possibly commit some horrible crime in a previous life?
I don't want to rub salt in a wound, but it's exactly reasons like this, and many others, that I've chosen to live out in the country. Live and let live. Just don't trust that everyone feels that way.

C.

The way these folks are, even once everything is completed and passed, just looking out and seeing your pool/enclosure should drive them nuts and within 2-3 years I'd give you even money on them moving.

This thread is really starting to sound like an investment of 10-20 thousand more up front for that large country property is really worth it considering what you have and still are going through!
This just reaffirms that I'm glad i did what I did, maybe I don't have a beautiful inground pool, just a measly 30 foot round lake that is probably just as much fun at 1/10th the cost, I have neighbours that are awesome and helpful, heck, even our dogs get together a couple of times a week to hang out, my ruts are my ruts, his ruts are his ruts, we make fun of each other's grass when it gets brown instead of figuring out a way to blame the other for it!

Man, what a soap opera! I thought my next door neighbors were bad. They are saints compared to these people. A little bit of gasoline and a match might fix your problem!!! HaHa!

Good luck.

Mike

I am so sorry! I feel your pain....we had one horrible set of neighbors that dogged us during our construction about mud washing into their rock beds. We constructed during the rainiest coldest summer ever and we kept assuring them we would fix things (even sent a letter so they had it in writing), but they made our lives hell. The wife even got in a shouting match with my husband and charged towards him...her husband had to hold her back! We did eventually replace about a ton of rock for them, and my builders did all the work and hauling. Now I just smile and wave to her as I am floating on my raft and she is mowing in 100+ weather! Don't let them get you down. It's not worth it and this too shall pass.

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Originally Posted by jv4nu

Don't let them get you down. It's not worth it and this too shall pass.

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The builder was GREAT! They lifted the sod - dug a 4" trench on their property and laid the sod back. Now they have a ditch in their yard - no problems with drainage now!

The city engineer came out today to talk with them - DH said he overheard the neighbor complaining about them "pushing all the dirt down and sinking the front yard" - and then the engineer explain to them why that was impossible. I guess they were also complaining about the sod being higher in some areas than others. Technically they have not notified me of any problems - so who cares!

Anyway - I was about to call the City and complain that they are discussing my property with the neighbor and the fact that they are on my property without permission (just to keep them in their place) - when the builder called and said that the engineer sided with them and was trying to convince the jerks next door that it will drain.

So now when they are outside - we go out and they go back in. So the new rule in the house is... "If you see the neighbors in the backyard, we all go out there for an hour or two just so they will go back inside!" ... so far it has worked really well - they have had company over and we stay in the pool - they walk out their back door and then walk right back in their house.

Maybe they will spend the $$ for a fence - then we can write letters complaining about them to the HOA - as soon as we get the final inspection approval this will get a lot more fun:D

After viewing some of the pictures of your pool, I finally understand why they are sooo upset.......

Jealousy..................The pool is beautiful....good luck with it and continue to "toy" with those neighbors as long as you can....you deserve it after all they put you through....lol.

That is one awesome pool installation! ;) ... too bad about the neighbours .. enjoy your creative work ... I'm sure the rest of the neighbours are envious/jealous of what you have ... they can only think of jumping in the pond for their refreshing swim :eek: ... but then again the HOA may be tempted to step in should that happen!:D

Theres always a Ying to a Yang ... thought I had bad neighbours ... I'm just glad my neighbours just are new immigrants and are getting accustomed to our local rules and regulations:o

So how did the REST of the summer go?

Update - we built the fence. They then called the City and said that it was on their property. I guess the guy next door called and threatened to sue the City if they gave us final inspection on the fence.

So the City won't come and measure - they stated that we had to get the neighbors to agree that the fence is not on their property in order for them to schedule the final inspection. Then the City tells me - oh and if you don't get this resolved by the time the permit expires, we won't renew it and you will have to remove the structure or have a $250/day fine until it is removed.:eek:

At this point - I call my attorney and he says that we need to prove it's on our property - but I don't want to spend $350 for a surveyor bc these people are a bunch of morons. Anyway - we found a friend of a friend that was a surveyor for the county we lived in and he came out and marked the line last night. The nieghbors came over and kissed (($%&(# after they saw that they were totally in the wrong - I'm sure that guy was thinking - "crap now they have grounds to sue us".

DH found out they are having a sun room added to the back of their house in a few months. DH and I are going to take turns calling the City about obscure things.... now it's going to get fun :cool:

We have also devised a long-term get them to move plan. Since I graduated from school - I know belong to several neighborhood committees, and all these people on the HOA that they have been complaining to are on our side.... can't wait until I see the "For Sale" sign in the front yard:D

LOL. As if, after the systematic hard time they gave you every step of the way, you would screw up and have the fence encroach on their property.:p

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Originally Posted by Simmons99

DH and I are going to take turns calling the City about obscure things.... now it's going to get fun :cool:

We have also devised a long-term get them to move plan. Since I graduated from school - I know belong to several neighborhood committees, and all these people on the HOA that they have been complaining to are on our side.... can't wait until I see the "For Sale" sign in the front yard:D

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:confused: Who's the bad neighbor? Sounds like they have a get-you-to-move plan as well. :rolleyes:

Show them you are better than they are and let them build in peace ;)

Never hurts to hope but...few homeowners sell their property right after making a major improvement to it, like adding a sunroom. Sounds like you both are going to be joined at the lot line for some years to come. Hope everyone can eventually find some sort of peaceful co-existence.

I've been following this thread since the beginning, and always thought you were decent people.....however.....after reading this:

DH found out they are having a sun room added to the back of their house in a few months. DH and I are going to take turns calling the City about obscure things.... now it's going to get fun

You're just like the rest of them, I thought you were bigger people than that, sure, I can understand that they are annoying, however, didn't your parents teach you NOT to fight fire with fire.
Personal opinion here, but my thoughts would be to embarrass the hell out of them by showing them what idiots they have been through being overly helpful, accommodating and just the nicest people throughout their sun room ordeal. In other words - completely 180 from their approach.

I mean really, set a good example here, don't stoop to their level, show them what neighbours should be like - hey, maybe they'll learn something and try to change for the better. Bring over beers and discuss the wonderful addition - That's what we do in Canada, the friendliest nation in the world!!!!

I usually don't even look at threads with this many posts but for some reason I did this time. Simmons, I see you're in Florida. My advice to you is to let the situation peter out. You proved your in the right, unless your surveyor goofed, so just get on with life. Unless you have a real reason to go after him like a blatant code violation or something similar, the situation will escalate and maybe get out of control. Like my state of Pennsylvania, Florida is a 'right to carry' state and very lenient on firearm posession. One big reason I like PA. People have been known to flip out and we don't want to read about an incident in Sanford. One thing I've learned in my dealings with obnoxious neighbors is you sometimes have no idea what they are thinking and what they think could be totally wrong and these wrong ideas in their heads could push them over the edge and then everyone loses.
Be careful.
Al

I had (have) a very similar situation with my neighbor. Even after showing him advance plans for my pool and him not objecting to anything at the variance hearings, he went ballistic after the pool was put in, even though we didn't encroach on his property at all and met all permitting requirements (and have a beautiful pool).

I finally got him to back off after threatening (obliquely) to have his above ground pool removed (it is against our deed restrictions) - he was being very vicious with the building inspector (who should have just ignored him, but didn't). Now, he just glares at me. But, other than exclaiming loudly (only sometimes) how wonderful the warm, solar heated, large, beautifully landscaped pool is, we pretty much ignore him, but are always courteous. Screw him, I can't spend my life being angry, I've got a wonderful pool to swim in!!!

And let's not forget that kids hear and see everything that's going on. They learn how to act based on what they see the adults do. :)