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Re: First test readings of season
Thanks Ben, I really dont want to do the drain/refill. I just got my shut off valve installed between pump and filter, got psi reduced down from 17 to 10 and the flow into the pool has slowed. Will keep the chlorine up and run it like this and see what happens. At what pressure do you think it would be ok to try and add alittle DE to the skimmer? Cheapest I have found that stuff is lowes and they want $24 for a 24 lb box, I dont need that much lol
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Re: First test readings of season
You can add DE at any time. But test it first: if it blows through the filter and out the returns, you need to work on filter (slowing flow, adding sand) before adding more.
Buying small amounts of DE is hard, and if you want to clean up a cloudy pool, it may end up taking quite a bit anyhow, since filter runs may be very short. If you store the leftovers in a covered plastic bucket, it will last indefinitely.
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Re: First test readings of season
Michael: Just dumped in the DE Powder..... Took about a cupful+ to get the pressure up 2 PSI points... I'll let ya know the results...
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Re: First test readings of season
How did you do with new sand ?? Hopefully, that was your problem the entire time.... I too changed out my sand a few weeks back,,,, but i guess you dont wanna hear that it made no difference in the cloud !! : > I t did pick up a ton of crud out of the water though..
Let me know how you make out... Hopefully I'll post some good news pertaining to the DE powder now in my filter.... the PSI went up 50% so I know it didnt blow through the laterals and back into the pool.....
Thinking the DE will be the final straw in this scenario... i already started looking at winter covers to close this chapter in my summer : >
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Re: First test readings of season
Got the new sand in, no loss on backwash put 1/3 cup of DE slurry in and psi went up 1. Then the storm hit lol waiting on it to pass so I can go check on it
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Re: First test readings of season
Thanks for all the help Ben, I went out after the storm and pressure had risen about 6 psi and it being late I back washed. Pressure back down to 10. Going to wait till morning to add more DE. I'm actually optimistic about this, I know it will take time. A question I have, when I backwash and the DE comes out and hopefully dead algae, can I see it? From what I saw on my backwash it wasn't real cloudy, and I back washed for about 2 minutes
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Re: First test readings of season
When you are coating with DE, you probably won't need a long backwash, since you are really just washing off the surface.
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Re: First test readings of season
Michael, Just to toss in my 2 cents:
Woke up this morning like a kid on christmas morning... RAN OUTSIDE to hopefully see the bottom design on my pool... Unfortunately, it was not there : < >>My pressure had risen 8 pounds with very little flow out the return, so i backwashed for a few minutes... water came out pretty clean where I was really hoping to see every color in the rainbow flowing out of that tube.. Headed out again to coat the filter with DE and hope for the best... But check out the last four or five posts' that Ben left on my thread: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?20437 ..... where he speaks of "coating" the filter...
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Re: First test readings of season
Just finished adding my 2nd application of DE, with the new sand and one application of DE I can see a difference in my water, the lime green is turning more of a cloudy color and my depth vision has improved some. Very optimistic
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Re: First test readings of season
SAME HERE !! overdosed the DE, waited for a psi rise, backwashed and continued those steps (did that about 5 times today) ... After all the experimenting, I'm hoping that 5oz of DE coats the filter and will do an overnighter without losing too much pressure from the return... Ben: I owe ya big time if this all works out...: Opry tickets or that beverage that made Tennessee GREAT !!!
Your choice.... : >
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Re: First test readings of season
I added my 2nd dose of DE about 3:00 at 9:00 my pressure has risen about 4-5 over the 1 pound increase from adding the DE. Is that pretty normal psi rise? I didn't expect a 8-10 real fast but realistic how long does it usually take
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Re: First test readings of season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
michael3
how long does it usually take
There's no answer to that, except to say that it depends on what's in the water, and your filter. I once spent the night babysitting a vacuum DE filter that was below water level on a 240,000 gallon Girl Scout pool: it was stopping up ever 15 minutes due to an algae infestation, and would flood if not cleaned and handled promptly.
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Re: First test readings of season
@Ben:: Would you suggest to Michael (and myself) to stir or brush the floor and walls during this process ??
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Re: First test readings of season
Slimey or green walls & floors need to be brushed. Otherwise, I'd prefer to wait and vacuum what settles. BUT, that's preference, and not necessarily 'THE BEST WAY'.
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Re: First test readings of season
OK... Conversely, Should we be vacuuming to waste during this process ? Reason i ask:: is that this is the first time of the season I can actually SEE what's in the pool..(and it aint pretty). I'll take that question one step further and ask if I DO vacuum to WASTE, would i be losing the DE as well in the WASTE mode...?
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Re: First test readings of season
If there is lots of debris in the bottom, vac to waste. Using the waste setting bypasses the filter so you would not lose the DE.
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Re: First test readings of season
Im actually surprise H2O-Mom, that i got up as much as I did vacuuming blind..... Thanks as always..>!
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Re: First test readings of season
I just vacuumed blind lol, I lost suction trying to get vac hooked up, I turned off pump to let it reprime and my pressure that had built to 17 went back to 10 with a good suction on vac head. It didn't take long for it to shoot back up to 17. I don't think I have much debri at all on bottom, I got nothing. I backwashed and recoated my DE. Slowly but surely it is clearing, my chlorine is holding overnight and I had a 4.5 drop during a very hot sunny day
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Re: First test readings of season
SOON we will no longer be the laughing-stock(s) of our neighborhood(s) ! Actually, some of the neighbors are coming over and giving me Cold Coronas while I drudge through this process !! I think they feel sorry for me : >
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Re: First test readings of season
Lol, soon isn't the word for me. This is gonna take some time, I add enough DE to bump my pressure up 1-2 psi then it seems like it takes forever for the pressure to rise enough to backwash, makes you want to throw more DE at it but I understand that wont make it filter any faster. I also remember Ben saying some of the "fog" is to fine for even DE. Sigh....
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Re: First test readings of season
Like I had mentioned, I figured out my little sand filter will "take 4.5 oz of DE (which looks to be about 2 cups+) This much (according to Ben) should coat the entire top bed of the sand... it lasts for hours and hours before jumping psi..
But all day yesterday, i experimented with all different amounts of DE, as high as up to a double dosage (9oz)... That dose clogged things up within 30 minutes or so..... I simply backwashed for a few seconds and started again...God knows I have enough of this powder (10lbs)...
Personally, I made HUGE advances today......and for once in my life, I'm gonna have to be patient and hopefully things will De-Fog...! I'll see if I can post some pictures..
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Re: First test readings of season
Lol, making progress or one to many free coronas lol. I tried about a total of a cup in about a 30 minute span and got close to a 5psi jump then it slowly rose, when I add enough to get a 1-2 rise it doesn't seem to want to increase
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Re: First test readings of season
Im wondering if I dose a heavy amount (2+ Cups) let the pressure increase THEN keep it there overnite.... I know the pressure out of the return wont be strong, hence the pool will be slow to re-circulate... but with that much DE coating the filter surface, I would ASSume I'd be catching the tiniest of particles....???
At the end of the day, it's all a crap shoot..
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Re: First test readings of season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stma
...heavy amount (2+ Cups) let the pressure increase THEN keep it there overnite.... I know the pressure out of the return wont be strong, hence the pool will be slow to re-circulate... but with that much DE coating the filter surface, I would ASSume I'd be catching the tiniest of particles...
You may but not very many of them. If the flow is too low there just won't be much water flowing through to clean. Moderation in all things.
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Re: First test readings of season
Thanks Big Dave::: I think the science behind this was to get as much as you can BEFORE the flow dwindles to nothing, backwash and continue the process... I've been doing such since Friday and have seen a dramatic improvement, but in all honesty, I really was hoping to see alot more improvement into the 3rd day...
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Re: First test readings of season
I'm glad to hear you both are seeing improvements in water quality. I've been following both these threads. Remember: POPP (Pool Owner Patience and Persistence) is free but hard to find. DE in your sand filter is clearly doing the job for you but using it this way basically creates a very small DE filter with proportionately limited capacity.
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Re: First test readings of season
Yes BigDave, it does appear to be working, today after adding some DE I decided to hop in the pool with the vac and walk the pool very slowly and let my feet tell me whats down there lol cause I still cant see over 18-24" down. The bottom of my pool was very clean, only a few leaf stems and a couple slick spots but not slimey. When I vacuumed with that DE in the filter the pressure rose much quicker than just letting it filter on its own with the DE. The thing I cant figure out is I cant shake that green tint. My chlorine is holding at night, lose maybe 1 point, and get 0 to .5 on cc test. During the day I see about a 4-5 point loss. Been keeping the chlorine stil in the 20s. I want to say will the DE help with the greenish tint but I will say Can it help? lol I still wonder if all that shock with the .26% copper could have added enough copper to the water to get the green? if so would a sequestrant? help me
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Re: First test readings of season
Is it normal or I should say is it a good thing if when I add the DE and my pressure does the 1-2 psi rise that it takes forever to get high enough pressure to require backwash? Does it mean my water is getting better or maybe the particles just are to small for even DE or maybe I didn't add enough to "coat" the filter. It has been taking all day or overnight to build
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Re: First test readings of season
A small increase on adding DE would be normal; don't backwash because of that. Instead, wait for at least a 5lb increase. As the pool becomes cleaner, it will take longer and longer to plug the filter. (And that's a good thing!)
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Re: First test readings of season
Got flooding rains yesterday and this morning, allowed me to vacuum to waste for a good while :) got water level down to correct level and redosed with DE, visibility is definitely improving, I can look straight down on the side and see more of the liner. Tested water and after all the rain my chlorine was still 15.5, CC 0, ph a strong 7.2 close to 7.4, Alk was 80.
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Re: First test readings of season
While I wait on the DE to help clear the cloud, and it is slowly. When I tried rubbing the vitamin c on my liner and nothing happened, does that eliminate metals completely or could I have metal in the water but no stains? I'm just wondering if I wanted to add something to my water to maybe help get rid of the green would a sequestrant work or how about polyquat 60
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Re: First test readings of season
I thought that maybe you needed to crush the Vitamin C tablet thinking it may have a "coating" on it's shell...However, I just checked my pool with the tablet alone and the stain came right off..... Sorry Michael !! thought that may have been your issue.... Things are looking a bit better for you, so I have been reading ?? Mine is now on auto-pilot, and the dramatic changes I saw over the weekend have now subsided....it's better for sure, but definitely not what I'm accustomed to seeing...
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Re: First test readings of season
Same here, I know Ben and everyone said it didn't get this way overnight and it's going to take time. The DE is working, I can see about halfway down but that's still 2' to go. It takes the whole day to build enough pressure to have to backwash, so either it's getting better or the particles are to small for even DE. I want to try either a sequestrant or polyquat not sure which would help better. Lime green wont go away.
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Re: First test readings of season
You can try to commonly available products to test for metals: Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) and Iron-Out (sodium sulfite + sodium hydrosulfite). If neither one lightens the stains, it probably is NOT a metal stain.
Unfortunately some non-metallic stains can be very chlorine resistant. But, using a sequestrant, chelant, or reducing agent (sodium hydrosulfite -- dissolves metal salts or stains) will have NO effect on a non-metallic stain.
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Re: First test readings of season
Thanks Ben, I guess what I'm wondering is can I have metal in my water, it would have come from copper shock, but not stain the liner? In effect can metals in the water give the green color but not stained the liner? If so what approach would I take
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Re: First test readings of season
Please complete this form for me:Pool Chart Entry Form
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Re: First test readings of season
@Ben: While I am making strides with the DE as Michael is, I did add a dose of Natural Chemistry's Metal Free into the water.. ( this is one of very few items I buy from the pool store)... it has worked like a charm the past 4-5 years....This years dose (which was yesterday) has yielded no results... I dropped FC to near -0- and PH in the 7.0 range..... (( Alk is 110 )) Any idea why this didnt take this time around... ? (the stains DO disappear with the Vit C powder)
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Re: First test readings of season
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Re: First test readings of season
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stma
@Ben: I did add a dose of Natural Chemistry's Metal Free into the water..) (the stains DO disappear with the Vit C powder)
Citric acid is incompatible with chlorine; if you have adequate chlorine in the pool, the citric acid will be destroyed almost instantly. This is also true of ascorbic acid (V. C) but it is a better stain remover than citric acid. However, to use either one, you have to operate with low / no chlorine, which is why we recommend dropping the chlorine and adding polyquat, when lifting (dissolving) metal stains, then adding HEDP (somewhat chlorine stable) to KEEP the metals in the water, THEN rechlorinating.
If you use the *old* Metal Free, it was EDTA based, which would still work for a little while in the presence of chlorine. Natural Chemistry reformulated that product on a no-notice basis.
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Re: First test readings of season
Ben any chance you had time to look over the chart I filled out?