slimy, gelatinous strings of goo ruin a good dip.........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

3. To manage chlorine levels, with your CYA as high as it is, you'll need a K-1515.

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PD, HeyRed got his k-2006 in post #28. FC is also very low at present. I didn't advise moving it because you are working into stain / metals removal.

dang, I wish I listened in chemistry class. This is confusing!

#1---the slime is GONE
#2---pool water is best I've ever seen
#3---stain is my only issue

What is K-1515 Ben?
And when you say with my "stabilizer that high" I need a dose of polyquat. What is the stabilizer?
I understand the polyquat dose as you suggest it.
How much HEDP?
Do I need a skimmer sock or can I just put this in the basket?
Can I wait until the end of summer to do all this?

forgive what may seem like idiotic questions. Thanks. Leyla


Question: Can I wait until the end of summer to remove the stains?

Stabilizer is the CYA levels. It will affect how quickly your CL will be broken down by sunlight and general effectiveness of CL sanitization. Generally recommended to keep that at 40-50ppm level but because yours is REALLY high, you will have to keep your chlorine levels much higher to be effective.

If you have read the best guess chart, you will see that your chlorine levels must remain between 8 and 15 at all times to prevent algae and other nasties from growing.
CYA LVL
100 - 200

CL MIN
8ppm CL

CL MAX
15ppm CL

SHOCK LEVELS
25-100ppm CL

Caution: red levels (the high end of the shock levels) are can be irritating to skin, can
damage hair, lighten pool liners and are very damaging to swimwear. Additionally, at these stabilizer levels, chlorine will drop VERY slowly. This can make the pool unusable for a long period.

Hey, heyred; sorry about the masculine pronoun - I presume Leyla is feminine, no?
I can field a couple of you questions:
The K-1515 is the stand-alone Taylor FAS-DPD test kit.
Stabilizer is another name for CYA - so is conditioner.
...
...
The skimmer sock is to protect the CuLater packet from getting fouled by pool goo, shortening it's useful life.
...

Thanks, Dave for the info and K1515 correction.

How much HEDP?

Can I wait until summer's end to deal with stain?

Thanks

Yes, you can wait till summer's end to remove the stains. However, you might want to go ahead and get everything you need to remove the stains, now, for two reasons.

First, it may be difficult to purchase what you need, in September. --I don't know that it will be, but I do know that many retailers are trying to clear out pool stock.--

Second, if you get it now, you can use small (1/3 - 1/2 recommended ) doses plus a CuLator (under a skimmer sock) to avoid having stains get worse.

From what I can tell from Periodic Products literature the CuLator bags do NOT have a life expectancy -- they are still good, till they've absorbed all the metal they can hold OR are gummed up with pool goo (thus, the skimmer sock).

Regarding the

BEN-----HELP!!!

I am now thoroughly confused now with regard to exactly WHAT products I need to get. When I go on Amazon there are just too many similar products. I need a list (with brand names if possible) of exactly what I need. Is this possible?

many thanks. Leyla

Sorry it's taken so long to respond, Leyla.

OK. Do this:

1. Get a bottle of Vitamin C tablets.
2. Put a few on a stained area, wait 10 minutes, remove, and then confirm that the stains are gone. (We don't want to use a stain removal process that doesn't work on YOUR stains!)
3. Do a COMPLETE set of tests on your pool water: FC, CC, pH, TA, CH, CYA, and report the results.
4. Do a metal bucket test on your FILL water -- presumably that's where your stains came from, but we need to check:

Bucket-test-for-metals

Then, once we've confirmed that your stains are metal, and that Vitamin C will remove them, you can go ahead and get what you'll need.

I've copied the list of Amazon links that I gave you earlier, and put them below. For your size pool, you'll want

• 2 lbs of ascorbic acid (vitamin C)
• 1 quart of 60% polyquat
• 2 quarts of 20% HEDP or 1 quart of 60% HEDP (corrected!)
• 1 lb of sodium thiosulfate (to remove chlorine)
• 1 package of skimmer socks
• 1 or 2 1.5 ppm Culator units
• 1 gallon of muriatic acid (Lowes)
• 3 boxes of borax (Walmart)

The thiosulfate is not listed below, but here it is: Photographers' Formulary Sodium Thiosulfate, 1lb

Before you buy anything, read the ascorbic acid stain removal page and make sure you understand what you're going to be doing.

Products for metal control and clean-up:

HEDP is a liquid phosphonate that is pretty chlorine stable, and very good at keeping dissolved metals IN the water, instead of ON your pool surfaces. It can lift recent stains, OR it can be used along side of ascorbic acid, to keep the metals in the water, after the ascorbic acid is consumed by chlorine.

Jacks Magic The Pink Stuff 1qt (60% HEDP) @ Amazon
20% KemTek HEDP @ Amazon

Using polyquat during metal clean up accomplishes two things: it helps kill or prevent algae, letting you run lower chlorine levels, and it is a very good clarifier, that helps you filter out any small metal particles that may form.(Probably available from pool stores, and possibly some big box stores -- but you MUST learn to ID it correctly. See the polyquat page for more info.)

Kem-Tek 60% polyquat @ Amazon
Nava 60% polyquat @ Amazon

Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) can be used to remove copper and iron stains from pool surfaces, and put the metal BACK into your pool water. (Not likely to be available locally, except as Vitamin pills.)

Ascorbic Acid Powder @ Amazon
Ascorbic Acid Vitamin C Powder USP Pharma Grade 11 Lbs @ Amazon

The CuLator product is a special patented plastic material, contained in a bag that goes into the skimmer, that can slowly take metals OUT of your pool water. We think it works, and have some evidence that it does, but not proof yet. (Not likely to be available locally.)

1 ppm Culator @ Amazon
1.5 ppm Culator sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
4 ppm Culator sold by Amazon, shipped from Periodic
Poolmaster 16242 Poolmaster Skimmer Basket Liner @ Amazon (to protect CuLator from being damaged by scum)

Thanks. I'll get back to you after I do what you say. Leyla

Please note correction regarding 20% polyquat, now 20% HEDP!

(thanks, Dave)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

Please note correction regarding 20% polyquat, now 20% HEDP!

(thanks, Dave)

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So the 2 quarts of 20% polyquat or 1 quart 60% polyquat SHOULD READ "HEDP" instead of "Polyquat"------right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

I've copied the list of Amazon links that I gave you earlier, and put them below. For your size pool, you'll want

• 2 lbs of ascorbic acid (vitamin C)
• 1 quart of 60% polyquat
• 2 quarts of 20% HEDP or 1 quart of 60% HEDP (corrected!)
• 1 lb of sodium thiosulfate (to remove chlorine)
• 1 package of skimmer socks
• 1 or 2 1.5 ppm Culator units
• 1 gallon of muriatic acid (Lowes)
• 3 boxes of borax (Walmart)

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Does read that, since being corrected.

The vitamin C pill lifted the stain, so I will proceed. THANKS so much for all your help. More later...........

Don't do it yet! We've had a couple of failures to remove all the stains, and keep them off, and I want to prevent any more.

Please do a COMPLETE test with a K2006, and then list EXACTLY what you have on hand, and the quantities. Also, please complete the

Pool Chart Entry Form

(If you've already started, tell me what you've done so far, but FIRST lower your pH to near 7.0, if it's not already there!)

yes, as you requested in post #49, I will do the testing and let you know the results before I buy anything.

STAINS GONE!

here's what I did.

No money for all the chemicals suggested so I did a goggle search, read some stuff and proceeded with my own cure.

I got the chlorine down to nothing, added 3# ascorbic acid and by morning the pool was sparkling and stains were completely gone. Started adding chlorine back in immediately.

Also added Ph-UP (no borax to be found in any stores....) through filter basket to bring it up a bit (couple scoops as my Ph was still in the 7 range).

So far----so good. I'll let you know if anything happens to change this miracle! Thanks for all your help.

You have to watch out. AA will remove the stains -- redissolve the metal into your pool water -- but the metal is ALL still in your pool. Adding chlorine and raising the pH tends to make it come back OUT of your water. Some will end up on the filter, but it's also likely that your stains may begin to re-appear.

You can minimize this by
+ running your filter 24/7
+ raising the pH and chlorine gradually.
+ using a no-copper algaecide to prevent algae while the chlorine is low.

Also, because the metal is still in the water (and will stay there until it "stains out" again) you MUST add a HEDP metal sequestrant weekly to monthly, depending on just how high the metal level is and how high you keep your chlorine (HEDP is broken down by chlorine and sunlight) to keep the metal "deactivated' so it does not redeposit back as stain.

Water still crystal clear, liner sparkly clean. I have the chlorine and Ph back to normal levels for a week now and so far, so good.

Okay, with this post I am going to close out this thread.

My pool is still crystal clear after just using the citric acid and slowly bringing Ph and chlorine up to regular levels. Didn't need any of that other stuff. Thanks for all your help.

Glad it's worked out for you.