Printable View
Perhaps I am but that's mainly due to the fact that we have no indication that anything is driving the PH down. It might very well have been at the level for the last 4 years. We don't know because it wasn't being tested. Couple that with the notion that high CL is more damaging then Low PH I just think it should be mentioned in passing in case it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by waterbear
Then based on what you say we should never shock a liner pool because high sanitizer will damage the liner and cause it to wrinkle by taking on water... empirical evidence notwithstanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by DurhamHouses
(And this discussion is more suited to the china shop than in this hijack of the OP's thread.)
DurhamHouses, our advice to the OP is not changing....whether you agree with it or not is up to you. At this point, if you want to continue the debate, please do so in the China Shop so that the original poster can continue his thread here if he chooses.
Janet
Then don't. We'll take care of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DurhamHouses
Carl
Since many of us have run high levels of sanitizer for many years in liners that are 9, 10, even 15 years old, it's a little hard to tell which wrinkles are due to excessive chlorine, and which are due to age, sun, temp changes, shifting, etc.
DurhamHouses, you need to understand that many users come here BECAUSE they have problems they cannot solve and the pool store has only made worse. We have helped thousands here over the last 10-15 years and somehow managed to get their pools cleaned up and running nicely all on our own. Our advice is always intended to be clear, easy to follow, and, most important, effective. We also WELCOME new users and have answered the same elementary questions hundreds of times. That's what we are about. If you cannot accept that, this isn't the forum for you.
You are welcome to debate alternative treatments and techniques in the China Shop but not while we are working to help an OP clean up their pool. It is merely disruptive and confusing.
To make claims like this, Durham, you'll need to provide a link to the study you're citing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DurhamHouses
Probably "Chemicals and Vinyl" by Don Ridpath, Pool & Spa marketing, 1998.
But this thread is all chopped up - where's the beginning?
It began where it shouldn't have, in the middle of a poster's questions about how to get his pool ready for vacation.
Is that article available online? If not, do you have a copy you can email me (poolforum AT gmail DOT com)? Who is Don Redpath?
Ben
http://piscines-apollo.com/docs/chemicals_and_vinyl.pdf
Basically if the liner is discolored it means too much chlorine, if it's wrinkled it means pH too low. pH is what kills liners. The calcium content is dissolved and the liner swells up and wrinkles. Water with high chlorine concentration can then penetrate further into the liner. The liner loses its elasticity, it elongates etc, we've all seen it.
Actually, according to two different engineers -- 10+ years apart -- at Canadian General, the calcium content is mostly irrelevant. But, the swelling at low pH is consistent from all sources.
However, what you are saying about chlorine penetrating is also contradicted by all vinyl engineers I've spoken with -- the consensus I've encountered is that chlorine at pool levels (<100ppm) doesn't affect the vinyl sheeting, but CAN damage the printed patterns, and some dyes, especially medium blue.
Also, the article refers to a study, but doesn't cite it or state when and where it took place nor who conducted it. Nor is there any bio or CV info on "Donald Redpath". The article reads much like one of the "expert" articles from Service Industry News . . . and those aren't entirely trustworthy.
So, unless there's better info, I'm going to stick with the info Chem_Geek and I have been given by vinyl sheet mfg engineers.
Ben