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I have chlorine based indoor pool that is a liner type pool.
Is rust an issue in salt pools ?
The liner company say it is not a problem, is there anything I can do to help
this type environment ? Is stainless steel compatable.
On a post someone stated bonded parts, my pool is full bonded in the install but I do not know if the stainless benches in the liner pool are ?
I am at
PH 7.4
TA 100
FC 4+
CC 00
Thanks in advance
deep_blue :)
Deep Blue, welcome to the forum! (you've made an excellent choice comming here to learn the PROPER way to care for your pool). The salt in the pool will shorten the life expectency of stainless (or any other metal), but it shouldn't cause too much trouble, we're talking about getting ~25 yrs out of them instead of ~30, and IMHO the salt system is worth it. (those #s were just for demostrative purposes, not actual aproximations of how long ss ladders, etc will nor should last). However, this assumes that the ss was properly made (we are currently having a BIG problem with light faceplate screws in our SWCG pools rusting within a week of instalation, I think that Hayward got a bad batch of light screws that weren't properly coated (or whatever they do to make steel stainless) - this same thing I have seen on some ladders, one bolt or nut will rust out, while the others are fine :confused: )
I don't know if you've considered another problem: SWCG generating too much chlorine. Indoor pools just don't have the chlorine demand that outdoor pools do, you don't need cya (because theres ~no UV to break down the cl), there is MUCH less organic material entering the pool (grass, leaves, etc), no sunscreen entering the pool, they tend to have less gallons, etc. SO the unit, even at it's lowest setting will generate way too much chlorine. There are some fixes for this:
1) Only run the pump 2- 4 hrs/ day
2) Get a very small SWCG, though the smallest ones will probably generate too much on an 8 hr cycle
3) Get an ORP control attached to the unit (I believe that Poolpilot makes a unit with this included [am I correct Sean?], but others can be slaved to one - so that it only generates when necessary).
4) Slave the unit to a separate timer (from the pump's) so it only generates a couple of hours/ day.
Just a little 'food for thought', I'm certainly not trying to discourage your getting a SWCG, but thought you'd appreciate knowing about the potential problem.
However you choose, know that I and the others on this forum are more than willing to help you with any pool question you encounter.
Happy swimming!! :) - Waste
Thanks so much for the quick and complete response... makes sense.
I should say, that I have SWG and suddenly I am worried if I did the correct thing since the WAF is low now due to what's occurring.
The stainless panels are attached to nylon supports with screws and it seems that where the panels "touch or almost touch" I get this bubbly, rust looking stuff that disappears when you blow water on it or wipe it, puff and it is gone.
Somewhere I read that connecting the metal parts (stainless steel benches) to a bonded ground is important....am I even close to being right ?
does that help ? what metal could I use ?
You are right about the SWG and my Jandy 700 can put out a lot of chlorine so I have been running it for a low consistent amount of time. Seems to be controllable. I do have a separate timer that I can use in case.
I will get a water test for copper and iron.... maybe that might help knowing.
I use about 3000 ppm salt also.
Please feel free to inform, I have learned soo much on this forum already.
Thanks in advance.
I said I'd help (as I can) and I'll give you my best $.02. I can't figure out what 'WAF' is. I also, ruefully, admit that I haven't the slightest clue about the reactions involved when metal meets salt water :o . The "rust looking stuff" probably is rust, I read that a 'sacrificial annode' might help, but don't have personal knowledge. I'm sorry that I can't further your querry, but if I see that none of the 'chemists' have noticed and responded to this tomorrow, I'll pm a couple of them to look at this thread.
Sorry the abreviations get funny on boards 'WAF' is wife acceptance factor. :)
I thank you for you help and interest. I like the salt water and I am interested in finding out about the rust and its control in a pool.
The whole balence of PH and all is a nice accomplishment that I have read about in this forum and applied with nice results.
A "clear pool is a thing of beauty"
Thanks again.
deep_blue
Deep, if you are using borax to raise the pH (though raising pH usually isn't a problem with SWCGs), I believe that borates inhibit rust. Waterbear is conducting an experiment concerning borates and pH stability in SWCGs - it's http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=4712 - I'll try to get him and PatL34 to look at this to see if either of them can help.
I can't believe that the WAF is low, the salt water should feel like liquid silk and her hair should feel like she just conditioned it when she gets out of the pool (or, is she bald? ;) ). Let me go see if I can get those guys to take a look here when they have the time :)
Deep,
Waste asked me to help you with some of your problems with rust. I hope I can help.
The fact that you can blow water on the rust parts and mainly the screws, seems to indicate an incompatibility with SS and the screws. The screws should be identical in grade as the SS with which they are in contact.
As regards the bonding, everything should be bonded, but I defer this to our "electric wizards" who can help you further.
The SWCG will have to run much as Waste suggests, but not knowing the pool size and SWCG make, it's difficult to give an acceptable answer.
Pat
No problem on information
pool size 300 gallons (a baby... on this forum, but lots of fun and plenty of water to swim)
stainless panels in the pool
where the panels almost touch -><- get a very small amount of soft lump of rust that will disappear when you move water over it ... the "poof effect"
happens only in a few places 4-6 I can see over a few days.
SWG Jandy 700 Aquapure (seems fine on lower settings and timer with pump, due to our low chlorine / organic loads in the indoor pool)
PH seems to rise slowly and I use sodium bisulphate to lower PH ... it cleeps up over a 2 week period so a small amount and then PH is 7.4
All of the pool frame and outside panels are grounded bonded to a common
ground point. The interior bench and swim motor housing is not ... from what I can see, there is supposed to be a series of screws that go through the swim motor housing to the metal panels behind the liner. Just can bring myself to poke hold through liner :o
covered for safety & humidity control
If you need any other information just ask. :)
I want to get this pool to its best possible place. The ORP chemical unit seems like a great way to control.
I am at
PH 7.4
TA 100
FC 4+
CC 00
thanks all
deep_blue :)
Have you tested the water for metals? Also, even though it is a vinyl pool the cacium hardness can be a factor, especially for metal parts....what is yours? If it is below 100 ppm I would bump it up a bit. If the rusting seems to be at the screws it can be that they are not stainless. A seqesterant in the water can have anti corrosion effects. might be worth a try also....just some thoughts. are you sure the brown lumps you are seeing are rust? Doesn't sound like it to me from your description.
Finally, I would use muratic acid instead of sodium bisufate with a SWG. No need to be adding sufates to the water.
Update...
Brown stuff still appears and is not magnetic (used a magnet to try to attract it, nope)
Seems that is is a few SS screws, that I can try to replace and at certain areas where SS panels are just separated by 1/16 inch --> <-- right at that point this brown fluffy stuff "now I am not calling it rust because it might not be ?"
Still need to have water tested for metals.
1
Does the fact that SS metal benches that are in salt water, at 3000 ppm, is there some protocol to connect this metal to a ground bond point?
I just do not know about this. Are all ladders and metal parts typically connected to a ground bonded point in pool construction ? what type of connection is used to connect the metal parts ?
2
Does bonding or could it, get rid of some "electro" action that might be depositing this fluffy stuff ? :confused:
The pool construction is a metal panel with liner. would connecting the interior SS pool benches make a diffence?
Thanks in advance for your help,
deep_blue :)