Cartridge Filters, Pro & Con
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PoolDoc
NOT RECOMMENDED:
=> Cartridge filters, unless needed to reduce water discharge. Cartridge filters are sort of the worst combination: they offer neither the high clarity of DE filters nor the ease of use and reliability of sand filters.
I must admit that this advice is quite shocking to me. I've owned 5 homes with in ground pools and would take a cartridge filter 100 out of 100 times (I use the Sta-Rite 3 System). I've never used a sand filter so can't comment on how well they work. I have used many DE filters and find them to be a MAJOR pain! Hell, some of them are almost impossible to get back together (you need to line the "fingers" up properly). I actually just removed a perfectly functioning DE filter from my pool in favor of the Sta-Rite 3 Cartridge. I can't imagine ANY filter on the planet is easier to maintain than this thing is.
Re: Recommended equipment for new inground pool
That issue has raised the most questions. There's been quite a bit of discussion behind the scenes on this. I'm planning an update, but may not have time till after July the 4th.
It appears there's a East Coast / West Coast divide on this topic, with cartridges quite popular on the West Coast, on pools with low bather and debris loads.
I have also sussed out, I think, why some older filter system perform well, when some of new cartridge systems do not. But that will have to wait.
I personally have a particular hatred for the System3 cartridge system, because:
+ The cartridges can be permanently damaged in a SINGLE episode of allowing the pump to run when the filter is dirty (and the lifeguards / pool staff didn't call me). I've got pictures, I'll post eventually.
+ The cartridges are too heavy for many adults to remove by themselves, resulting in damage when a single person removes them.
+ The replacement cartridges are OEM only, and extremely expensive.
+ The cartridges are completely unsuited for commercial bather loads, which even Pentair has now recognized.
+ It's hard to find anything big enough to clean the cartridges in, when they are fouled by suntan oils and lotions.
That said, some people with lightly used pools and a big System3 have been VERY happy with them, because they run all season with a single cleaning done by a service guy.
Re: Recommended equipment for new inground pool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PoolDoc
That issue has raised the most questions. There's been quite a bit of discussion behind the scenes on this. I'm planning an update, but may not have time till after July the 4th.
It appears there's a East Coast / West Coast divide on this topic, with cartridges quite popular on the West Coast, on pools with low bather and debris loads.
I have also sussed out, I think, why some older filter system perform well, when some of new cartridge systems do not. But that will have to wait.
I personally have a particular hatred for the System3 cartridge system, because:
+ The cartridges can be permanently damaged in a SINGLE episode of allowing the pump to run when the filter is dirty (and the lifeguards / pool staff didn't call me). I've got pictures, I'll post eventually.
+ The cartridges are too heavy for many adults to remove by themselves, resulting in damage when a single person removes them.
+ The replacement cartridges are OEM only, and extremely expensive.
+ The cartridges are completely unsuited for commercial bather loads, which even Pentair has now recognized.
+ It's hard to find anything big enough to clean the cartridges in, when they are fouled by suntan oils and lotions.
That said, some people with lightly used pools and a big System3 have been VERY happy with them, because they run all season with a single cleaning done by a service guy.
Wow! You weren't kidding about the cost of filters. I just took a quick look and was surprised at the cost.
I'll stick with my DE filter, thank you. ;)
Re: Recommended equipment for new inground pool
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PoolDoc
That issue has raised the most questions. There's been quite a bit of discussion behind the scenes on this. I'm planning an update, but may not have time till after July the 4th.
It appears there's a East Coast / West Coast divide on this topic, with cartridges quite popular on the West Coast, on pools with low bather and debris loads.
I have also sussed out, I think, why some older filter system perform well, when some of new cartridge systems do not. But that will have to wait.
I personally have a particular hatred for the System3 cartridge system, because:
+ The cartridges can be permanently damaged in a SINGLE episode of allowing the pump to run when the filter is dirty (and the lifeguards / pool staff didn't call me). I've got pictures, I'll post eventually.
+ The cartridges are too heavy for many adults to remove by themselves, resulting in damage when a single person removes them.
+ The replacement cartridges are OEM only, and extremely expensive.
+ The cartridges are completely unsuited for commercial bather loads, which even Pentair has now recognized.
+ It's hard to find anything big enough to clean the cartridges in, when they are fouled by suntan oils and lotions.
That said, some people with lightly used pools and a big System3 have been VERY happy with them, because they run all season with a single cleaning done by a service guy.
Interesting perspective Ben. I definitely fall within that minority viewpoint, as I live 20 miles north of Boston. This is the second pool I've put the System 3 in, and absolutely love the thing. It takes me less than 10 minutes to completely disassemble it, clean it, and get it put back together, and that alone makes the other issues well worth it for me. I've had DE filters that took me an entire day to attempt to get back together. I'd certainly entertain an easy to use and maintain DE filter (assuming such an animal exists), but I refuse to spend my time being aggravated because I can't get a filter back together.
I will say that some of your other points are valid. The replacement cartridges are indeed very expensive (it's almost just as cheap to buy an entire new unit...with the housing). The larger media cartridge is indeed quite heavy. Luckily for me, I'm a fairly large dude and have no issue moving things to where they need to get to. I wasn't aware this system was even designed for a commercial pool, so I'm sure what you're saying is accurate, based upon your experience. Luckily for me, it really seems to work well for me. I did buy a larger size (I believe I purchased the 400 ft model), and it seems to do the job on my 18X36 pool. Let me ask you this...Are there DE filters out there that offer the ease of cleaning, dis-assembly, and re-assembly that the Sta-Rite System 3 offers? I'm just curious, because I have found a root canal to be less painful than dealing with DE filters. That said, I'm always willing to learn new things, and I really love your write up here. I especially loved your point that there really is no point (other than lining a dealers' pockets) to go with all one brand. That's true of everything in life!
John
Re: Recommended equipment for new inground pool
It sounds like you may have had a Hayward Perflex, which is the only DE filter I know with fingers.
The StaRite System3 line includes cartridge, DE and sand filters, all in that same case. On the pool that had the System3 cartridges, I gutted the shell, and rebuilt them with DE internals and added multiport valves. We backwashed those filters possibly weekly, and opened and cleaned them 2x per year. Obviously, opening a System3 is the same task regardless of internals.
I'd rather wash out the DE filter, than wash the cartridges, but I'd class them as similar tasks.
And, you're correct: height matters. I'm only 5' 9", and had a hard time lifting the cartridges straight up. My 6' 2" son had no problem, even though he's not as strong as I am.
Re: Recommended equipment for new inground pool
I'm sure a filter model's specific design has a big impact on how easy it is to clean and maintain.
My only experience is with our Hayward Pro Grid 6020 that was installed with the pool in 2004. It does a great job keeping the water crystal clear and I've not found maintenance to be the PIA some have described.
My filter will go all season on a single charge so DE each season costs me next to nothing. The only parts I've had to replace in 10 years is the pressure gauge and the air relief assembly. I did a quick check and it looks like if I had to replace the grids and manifold it would be less than $200.
In the fall I break it down and thoroughly clean it. Granted, breaking it down, cleaning, and reassembling isn't a 10 minute job (it usually takes me a couple hours; I take my time with it), but it's pretty easy if you take your time and are methodical about it. At 5' 8" it's not exactly easy to lift the grid assembly from the casing, but I've managed to do it by myself for 10 seasons without incident. I'm sure lifting it would be easier if I were taller. :D
When I was pool shopping in 2003, I narrowed my choice to 2 pool dealers. One was offering a cartridge filter in the pool package (sorry, don't remember the brand/model) and the other the Pro Grid DE filter. Of course at that time I really didn't know which would be better, but what research I did seem to indicate lower cost of ownership for the DE filter. The clincher was when the dealer offering the cartridge filter told me to avoid DE because a 25lb box of DE would cost over $100 and I'd be using a box per month! It didn't take much research to confirm this was a big fat lie! As a matter of fact that dealer sells DE in their retail shop and they don't charge near that much! Well, I was not going to buy a pool from someone who would lie to me to pressure me into a purchase, so I went with the other dealer (they did a good job and didn't lie to me the best I could tell; as a matter of fact a coworker also went with this same dealer based on my recommendation).
Sorry, I got a bit sidetracked there. :o Carry on..... ;)
Re: Recommended equipment for new inground pool
Not to worry, if I apologized for every time I got sidetracked, my post count would probably double!
Re: Recommended equipment for new inground pool
I've had sand filters and DE filters. I wish I stayed with sand. The only issue with sand is if you ever have to clean the sand out which was after 10 years...Other than that i wish I never strayed.
DE Filter works great but as they say, cleaning those grids semiannually and getting them back into place is a bear, and they have to be replaced when they rip. I would definitely go sand again if I could.
As long as we owned our sand filter which was 20 years, we only had issues with major algae when we were away and our filter broke. We actually added DE type material to the sand and it did the job, but that was where the algae was so bad they reccommended the replacement of the sand in the end... and had buckets and buckets of sand to be thrown out... but when we moved and went DE we wish now, we didn't stray.
How about POOL LIGHTS? What would people buy now?
