New Pool Pump recommendations needed

Hi,

I am looking to replace my pool pump. My in-ground pool is 15-20k gallons and is one of those "play" pools where it's shallow at both ends for playing volleyball or some other type of water sport. It also has an attached spa with a waterfall that empties into the pool. I currently have an ancient-looking Hayward pump with an even older-looking motor called "The Californian" attached to it. (The motor has a sticker on it with a bunch of information that is legible in case I need to provide more info.) It's a 2HP motor and the name A.O. Smith is on the green info label. The pump is connected to a Hayward Pro Grid DE filter and the whole thing is run by an Intermatic model #T20001R1.

I'm looking to replace my pump in order to save $$$ on operating costs. In your opinion, what pump should I get that will work with what I currently have and will also save me money/pay for itself in the long run? (I saw your deleted posts about the ecopump and that made me laugh!)

Also, what should the labor cost normally run to remove the old pump, install the new pump, and modify the pipes?

Lastly, PoolDoc is AWESOME. PoolDoc is honest and to the point. Very refreshing!!!

I'll let one of the equipment gurus answer your question about pumps but I just wanted to say hi and welcome to the Pool Forum! And, yes, PoolDoc is awesome, honest and to the point. And those are just some of the reasons why we love him! (He's also just a really good guy!)

Hope you enjoy being a part of our forum!

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Originally Posted by Watermom

(He's also just a really good guy!)

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Only if you keep him at a distance!

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

Only if you keep him at a distance!

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Nah --- the only reason we need to keep him at a distance is cuz he might have a spider or a scary looking bug of some sort in his pocket waiting to show you!!

:p:p:p :):):)

Hi Pools,

Just wanted to add my welcome. I can't answer the pump question, but I know that a 2 HP pump is too much pump for a 15-20K pool. You should be able to get a smaller one, which will be less expensive, but the equipment gurus should be by soon to offer some opinions.

As far as labor costs, that's going to vary by area, I would think--out here in Louisiana, going labor rates are around $90/hour plus service call fees depending on mileage, but I'm wiling to bet that's a lot different from the California prices. Best thing I can recommend would be to shop around--call several of your area pool service places and just see what the average is.

Janet

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Originally Posted by PoolsRExpensive

I'm looking to replace my pump in order to save $$$ on operating costs. In your opinion, what pump should I get that will work with what I currently have and will also save me money/pay for itself in the long run? (I saw your deleted posts about the ecopump and that made me laugh!)

Also, what should the labor cost normally run to remove the old pump, install the new pump, and modify the pipes?

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Mark (mas985) and I have been working toward some guidelines for doing this. And, we're getting a better handle on what information we need to make good recommendations. Eventually, we may have some rules of thumb, but right now, we have to run some calculations, and look at equipment and piping layout very carefully. It's not a straight forward process.

One of the definite benefits of the variable speed pumps is they allow you to adjust your pump to your situation, after the fact. So, they are something of a one-size-fits-all solution. Also, they (mostly) come with a built in timer.

This compares very favorably to a selecting and wiring a 2 speed pump, which requires very careful selection, and an external timer.

Right now, the plus / minus features stack up like this:

VFD pumps
+ 'engineering' not required
+ efficiency is fairly good in multiple situations
+ time clock not required (usually -- some require a matching pool controller)
- complex interface and/or programming
- replacement electronic module is 3/4 cost of complete pump, and can be 'zapped' by lightning
- electronic module durability is uncertain;
(just a couple of days ago, the manager of my local SCP told me that out of about 10 Pentair Intelliflos they sold last year, they got 2 back. One was a wiring error; the other as just a failure. This a small sample, but consistent with what we've been hearing. By contrast my own personal experience with installing 50+ Hayward Super Pumps and Pentair Challengers . . . I have had ZERO failures. (I mostly have worked with large pools, as a service guy, which is why I have installed so few home type pumps) )

2 speed pumps with Intermatic electromechanical time clocks
+ Far more durable; far less susceptible to electrical failure.
+ More efficient if OPTIMALLY selected
+ Less expensive to purchase
+ Less expensive to maintain
+ Simple interface
- LESS efficient if NOT optimally selected.
- 'engineering' required for good selection

So . . . if you want to just look at VFD pumps, Mark can make some recommendations. If you want to COMPARE 2-speed and VFD options, you'll need to send us photos of your pump, piping, filter, pool, and spa . . . and then answer the questions we'll ask after we look at the photos. If you send photos, send them to poolforum@gmail.com. Or if you use a photo host, post them there and I'll grab them. But take BIG pictures; let me crop them and pick the bits we need to get info.

Our recommendations will be limited to Jandy, Pentair, and Hayward, for reasons that will be obvious to you.

Hi Pools!
Usually, with a pool that size a 1 HP Superpump with a two-speed setting is plenty. But your spa and waterfall may add demand. I don't know much about spas, especially when integrated into pools.

Given that you have a spa and waterfall and assuming you use the same pump for all features, these features will pretty much dictate the size of the pump.

So the first set of questions I have are:

Are you happy with the current performance of the spa jets (e.g. strong, weak, etc)?

Are you happy with the current performance of the water fall (e.g. look, sound)?

Do you know the model # of the pump? If not, is there a service factor (SF) listed on the pump motor label?

Are you planning to add solar in the future?

What do you pay for electricity ($/kwh)?

A variable speed would give you a lot of flexibility so there would not be any guess work when sizing. Also, for a given flow rate (RPM), it will use less energy than a two speed at the same flow rate.

But in general, both a two speed and VS pump will pay for themselves over the life of the pump, it is just a matter of how long it takes.