First time pool owner questions on filter and pop-up floor cleaners

Hello all:

I have a few questions. I just bought a foreclosed home and have been working to get the pool back to 100%. The pool is about 20-25k gallons. It has a clearflo DE 72 filter made by heldor. I am trying to find an instruction manual or any information on it. I have back flushed it a few times and not sure when to add more DE. I also know the max pressure should not go over 50. But what is a normal pressure to run the filter at? Does the lack of DE run the filter higher or lower pressure? It currently runs around 25-30psi. My other major question is about the pop-up floor cleaners jets (don’t know the correct name). A few jets either don’t pop up or don’t turn when they do pop up. The names on the jets are called Flamingo “something”. I have been looking online to see if I could find replacement or a tool to take them out. So far I can’t find any information. I have pushed the jet heads up and down to get them to move normal. Then next day they are back to the not moving style. Any help would be great. Thank you!

brian

Here's some info for you:
http://www.poolandspastuff.com/GridHelClearflow.htm

http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-pro/...ilters-232.htm

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11325966/poo...%20cleaner.jpg

Here is a picture of my in floor pop-up cleaner. the size is 3.5inchs outside dia. about a 2 inch head. I am trying to find any information on how to remove,clean, replace. The name on the jet head is "flamingo genie" which I can't find any information only about. Any help would be great. Thank you.

Dunno about the pop-up . . . but you've got copper staining on your plaster. This is something to DEFINITELY keep in mind. High chlorine levels + high pH can cause that blue copper to turn black! Be SURE to tell people you've got widespread uniform blue-green copper staining when you post any chemical questions here.

You probably need to run standard chlorine & stabilizer levels + polyquat if you ever stop using the copper.

Welcome to the Forum.

Try this for some genericUse and Care For most DE Filters:

(The units I have a lot of experience with are made by Hayward – so most of this applies specifically to them, but the principals apply to all DE filters)

1) Basics –

A DE filter is one which uses diatomaceous earth (~ skeletons or fossils of prehistoric one celled plants) to remove all but the finest material from the water. The DE is a white powder which is mined in various places around the world which was formed by the evaporation of the water that these critters lived in. The DE is kept in the water flow of the filter because it coats the internal grids or fingers which make up the filters internal ‘nest’ allowing dirt and debris to be captured by the microscopic paths created by the coating. Because of the nature of the ‘paths’ through the DE coating, algae – which is the approximate size of the paths – can easily and quickly congest a DE filter, most DE filter owners find this to be the biggest drawback of owning one. The DE must be added to the filter via the skimmer, with the pump running, the amount to add is dependent upon the size of the filter. When adding DE to a filter, most manufacturers recommend mixing the powder with water before pouring it into the skimmer – I have found that adding the powder directly into the skimmer is equally effective, if you have more than 1 suction source operating at the time of addition. (having a second, or third, suction source allows the DE rich water from the skimmer to properly mix with ‘non- DE water’ from the other source(s) to evenly coat the grids).

However, DE filters, while providing the finest filtration, DO have their downsides! If you do a ‘backwash’ (discussed later) or do a thorough cleaning of the filter, you need to add more DE to it – and, if you add too much or too little, you’ll likely have filter problems! Too much DE will clog the filter and decrease the efficiency of it. Similarly, too little DE will not catch enough ‘dirt, etc” and cause the grids to clog up with the debris, both of which require a manual cleaning of the grids and possibly a chemical cleaning of them. Also, ‘bleeding’ the air out of the unit before adding DE is KEY! – the fresh DE can only coat the parts of the grids that are in water!

Knowing how much DE you are actually adding to the unit is VERY important! The best way is with a premeasured scoop – they are inexpensive and well worth the $ spent, any place that sells DE should have one available. DO NOT USE a 1lb. scoop or canister that is not specifically for DE (ie. A 1 lb. coffee can only holds ~ ½ lb. DE) If you have an accurate scale that will allow you to weigh the container first and then the weight of the DE when it’s full, that’s fine -- just be SURE to know ~ how much DE you add when you are adding it!

2) Types –

There are 2 different types of DE filters:
The first uses ‘fingers’ (fabric wrapped hollow tubes, usually 100/ filter) to collect a layer of the DE on. This style is also known as a ‘bump’ filter because the DE can be ‘recharged’ via the use of a handle which moves the whole assembly up and down to expose new pathways in the DE coating without having to replace any DE (I’ll talk about ‘bumping” a filter in a minute.) (There are some ‘grid’ filters which have a handle on the top connected to a plastic plate which operate the same way)

The newer models have a series of grids to collect the DE and either have a multiport valve or a ‘push/ pull’ valve (of which I will speak very little). These units allow you to ‘backwash’ most of the DE out when the filter needs to be cleaned. (* some localities do not allow wasted DE to be flushed into sewers or even onto your own property – in that case a ‘separator’ would need to be installed on the backwash line).

3) Start - Up

The fabric which holds the DE does very little to filter the water! As such, a DE filter needs to have a coating of DE on the grids/ fingers as soon as the pool is started up. Your installer or pool tech should do this for you the first time and give you a complete lesson on operating your pool (called ‘pool school’- it’s a lot of info all at once and it is very understandable that some of the info is forgotten by a pool owner). The amount of DE required by each filter is determined by the size of the filter – there should be a label on the filter identifying the size of the unit and how much DE it requires when completely clean. As said, KNOWING how much DE you are adding is key! Make sure to note what the pressure gauge reads when the unit is clean and freshly coated with the DE!!

4) Maintenance

Your filter should run anywhere from 8 psi to 20 psi with fresh DE put in it, depending on your pool and filter system. When the psi rises 8, it’s time to clean the used DE out of it. (when doing any filter work, turn off the pump!)

Bump filters:
1) open the air valve on the top of the unit for ~ 5 sec. and close (bumping with the unit full of water will harm the unit!)
2) Slowly push the handle down and quickly raise it up 4 – 6 times.
3) Now turn the pump back on and see if the psi went down, if it didn’t drop more than 2 psi, you need to dump the used DE.
4) (if you need to dump the DE) – Open the drain outlet on the filter after doing steps 1 and 2 and run the pump for 20 seconds. Close the outlet and run the pump for a minute (don’t do this if you have an algae problem! The uncoated parts of the fingers will collect algae too quickly and clog), then repeat the procedure (make sure you open the air relief while the pump is running until water comes out of it)
5) At this point, you have removed ~ 80% of the old/ used DE so only add 80% of the DE you would use in a new or fully clean filter!!

Grid filters:
1) Pretty much the same as bump, except you have a multiport which allows you to backwash the filter when the pressure rises 8 psi.
2) (always!! Turn off the pump when changing multiport positions!!) Turn the multiport to ‘backwash’ and restart the pump, watch the view-glass or the end of the discharge hose to see when the backwashed water becomes ~ clear. When it is fairly clear, turn the multi to ‘rinse’ for 15 – 20 seconds and then back to ‘backwash’ until the water runs ~ clear again. Repeat the ‘rinse/ backwash’ until the water comes out clear when backwashing, add a short ‘rinse’ and the filter is about as clean as you’ll get it using the ‘backwash’ function.
3) If the water in the pool is fairly clear, I’ll throw in a 1 min filter cycle and do the ‘backwash/ rinse’ cycle(s) again.
4) At this point, you have removed ~ 80% of the old/ used DE so only add 80% of the DE you would use in a new or fully clean filter!!

When bumping/ backwashing doesn’t work:

Sometimes just ‘dumping’ the old De isn’t enough to get you back to proper filter performance – this can be caused by algae (or some other fine debris clogging the DE), or neglect (you didn’t clean the filter soon enough), or the grids/ fingers getting clogged up.

At this point, you need to take the filter apart and manually hose them off (it’s a wet process – so be prepared to get ~ soaked). I recommend the manual hosing every year (I like doing it in the fall when the pool is being closed because, then you know the filter is ready for another season)

If , when manually rinsing the grids, you notice that water is staying in the membrane for more than ~30 seconds, it’s time for a chemical cleaning!

To chemically clean the grids/ nest:
1) Have a bucket/ container large enough to hold the entire assembly
2) #1 Add some TSP (tri-sodium-phosphate) to the water or some electric dishwasher detergent to the water and soak the grids for 3 hours – this will ‘de-grease’ the membranes and is the first step in cleaning them, rinse with hose and get ready for step 3.
3) Dump the container, refill with water and add muriatic acid to the water so that you have a 10:1 water: acid mixture and soak the grids for another 3 hours, this will clean any calcium off of the grids. Rinse grids again and reinstall them in the filter.
4) Now, run pump and bleed off the air from the filter and add 100% of the DE the filter calls for.


I Hope that this is enough for most DE filter owners; if you have any questions, I’ll be here to answer them
DE filter advice :

This pool also has a heater if that might be where the copper is coming from?

Very possibly.

And, if it is, you'll need to plan for a heater replacement (or possibly, a heat exchanger, if the heater is new) in the near future. You may have quite a bit of damage.

Low pH is the cause of this sort of damage. Often, there may be tabs in the skimmer or a tab feeder in FRONT (water flow wise) of the heater, instead of after it.