Pool is brown...tried lots of things...lots of problems!

Hey guys,

I just bought a campground recently that we're having quite a bit of pool problems with. First, the pool is brown and badly stained from iron. I've now used over 8 bottles of poolsafe iron stain remover, so many bottles of clarifier I can't count, and tonight 3 bottles of some chelating agent designed to drop all the particles out so we can vacuum them out tomorrow morning.

I've also discovered that we only have 2 skimmers, one bottom main drain, and two inputs in the pool. Plus our pump is only flowing 45 gpm with a 100 gpm rated sand filter for a 33,000 gallon pool, which is over a 12 hour turnover rate. So, best I can tell we need a bigger pump capable of pumping up to 100 gpm, which would be roughly a 5.5 hour turnover rate, which is acceptable and to code.

Plus, we don't have an automatic pool controller to monitor and control our liquid chlorine and ph.

So, in essence I know I need to correct a lot of this to minimize future issues, but my problem now is that our water tests out fine, and in fact today I had it tested again and it showed no iron or phosphates and generally speaking was in line on everything else, but it's still as brown as our lake.

We're on Xenia city water, not well water, and the iron stain remover works temporarily, but then seems to make the pool even worse, as if it's releasing all the stains and buildup in the pipes that never seems to be able to go away, because it's always recirculating through the system.

Needless to say, I've spent over a $1K in chemicals this week to fix the problem to no avail, and I'm about to pull my hair out. It's causing major customer service issues and a loss of business.

Any help on where to start to fix this would be greatly appreciated.

Chris

Hi, and welcome to the forum!!

Since Ben is one of the few of us with commercial pool experience, he would be the one to tackle this. He should be along soon, hopefully with help for you, but I just wanted to welcome you to the group.

Janet

I've never known anyone to succeed at removing extensive old iron stains with anything other than acid washing; I'm not saying it's never happened, but I've not seen it.

So, the bad news is, most of what you spent on chemicals probably is just down the drain. The good news is that, under most codes, a pool doesn't have to look good to be used. And it certainly doesn't have to look good to be safe. If the water is clear, and the chlorine is sufficient, and the pH is between 7 and 8 . . . the pool is probably safe to swim in. (I don't know your local code, so I don't know if your local authorities would agree, however.)

However, your circulation is not adequate, as you know.

Whether you can fix it or not -- without major renovations -- depends on your piping. If you have (3) 2" pipes coming from the pool, and (2) 2" pipe returning to the pool . . . you probably can. If the pipes are 1.5", your options are limited. (Remember, pipe sizes are ID, not OD -- 2" PVC is about 2.5" OD.)

At this point, I can make three, rather strong, suggestions:

#1 - Get a Taylor K2006C (2 oz bottles) test kit. No matter what else you do, you'll need to have, and use, that kit.
#2 - Get a couple of Taylor K1000 test kits for daily quick and dirty testing.
#3 - Get a copy of your local code, and find out how it's enforced.

Also, if you want further help from me, please take a full set of photos -- pool, stains, piping, pump, filter, etc. -- and email them to poolforum AT gmail DOT com.

One more note: it's may be possible to remove those stains with sodium hydrosulfite. You can test that by
a) buying a bottle of Iron Out (detergent section at Walmart),
b) soaking a sponge in a saturated solution of that,
c) putting the sponge and some excess solution in a baggie,
d) putting the baggie in the pool near a stained area,
e) opening the baggie and sliding the sponge out quickly (underwater, I presume)
f) compressing the sponge against a stained area, and holding it there for 2 minutes.

If you have asthma, have some else do it -- hydrosulfite can trigger an attack. Also, whoever does it should wear gloves.

Good luck!

Thanks for the help. I'll try the iron out solution and let you know what I find out. I really appreciate the help. Is the test kit you mention testing something other than chlorine and ph?

Chris

Accurate chlorine from 0.2 - 50 ppm
pH
total alkalinity
calcium hardness
stabilizer

Well, this morning I woke up to a clear pool with brown crap at the bottom everywhere. So, the baquacil the pool guys gave me worked to make it all drop out of solution and rest on the bottom of the pool floor. So, this afternoon I vacuumed it up, but noticed that it left stains on the floor, as well. Plus, what little bit I stirred up was already continuing to settle on the pool floor as I was making my way around the pool. So, my plan is to vacuum it first thing tomorrow morning once again. But, my question now is how do I remove the stains effectively and preferably low cost. I'm sick of paying all these high prices at the pool places.

Chris

You indicated in your first post that your problem was stains, not with what was in the water.

Also, your last statement, about wanting to cut your costs a lot, is kind of making me back off. I usually avoid trying to get involved with commercial pools here anyhow, even though they are what I work with locally.

Why?

Commercial pools are expensive to maintain properly. Period. I can and help people do it for less. But I cannot help them do it cheaply.

I have many, many times refused, both here and locally, to help people do it improperly. In fact, for years I've simply refused to take calls from motel and apartment owners because their question is ALWAYS, "how can I do it cheaply" and NEVER, "how can I do it right". I'm sure somewhere there's a motel or apartment owner who wants to do it "RIGHT", but they are not the ones who call me. I know that in the state of Georgia, it was those owners who fought the most basic sanitation requirements in the state code tooth and nail.

The fact is, low volume, high load commercial pools -- like those typically found at motels, apartments, and campgrounds -- are difficult to maintain well.

Sincerely,

Ben Powell

Ben,

Sorry if I came across the wrong way. I don't care what it takes at this point to fix this stupid thing. I'm just sick of the local pool companies not being willing to come visit the pool, diagnose the problems, and sell me what I need to actually fix the problem. I can't even get someone to tell me what type of pump I should get, automatic controller, ph feed, etc that will help handle the pool better. It's unreal. It's like they're making too much money selling off the shelf fixes in a bottle that don't work than actually fixing the problem.

Chris

Chris, most likely they do not KNOW what you should do.

In my area, pool builders - as a rule - do not know now to operate residential pools successfully, much less commercial ones. This is the reason they sometimes jump on things like Nature2, as much in the hope that it will keep owners from calling them with water problems, as a chance to sell more stuff.

Pool stores are, well, pool stores. Some of them can run a home pool, if somewhat expensively. But again, at least in my area NONE of them know how to operate a commercial pool, especially ones with problems. They are happy to sell you stuff, but they probably will avoid telling you what to do or what will work.