Buying A House With A Concrete Pool, No Expansion Joints Around Coping - Need advice

Hello all,

I am in the inspection phase of purchasing a house down in Cedar Park, TX. There is an in ground pool here, and upon inspection by both my inspector and pool company it there are no expansion joints and the coping has begun to lift away from the pool. It seems that there was only mortar between the coping and concrete deck. The pool company is suggesting to remove the coping, then add a new one done right. The ground has a lot of limestone in it. There is also a stump from an oak tree which was cut down (I'm assuming it caused some of the separation)

I am worried that if they did not put expansion joints around the coping that there could be other hidden problems. This pool is over 10 years old, so I expect I'll be resurfacing it soon if we buy the house. Is there any cause for concern for the the actual concrete shell? Both inspectors said it looked fine (other than being 2 years out from resurfacing)

The pool company said it would be "less than 5k" (the guy who came wasn't the construction guy - hoping to get a better estimate tomorrow from them).

Here are 4 pictures (sorry for not having better quality). You cannot see where the coping is lifting off the top of the pool, just the separation from the deck (and this is hard to see as well due to the blurry pics). I'm planning on trying to get the current owners to pay for this in an amendment to our contract. What do you guys think?

You can see the cracking on the right side w/o joint
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/z...pool/pool2.jpg
Stump is on the far right
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/z...pool/pool3.jpg
The shrub in front of the pool is right behind the coping.. with soil there thinking we should fill that in instead of having somewhere water can sit
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/z...pool/pool4.jpg
You can see the are with the shrub in the back
http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/z...pool/pool1.jpg

I'm not quite sure what your question is. Clearly, getting the coping fixed is a good idea; and it's certainly a better idea for you if you can get the current owner to pay.

If you're asking, can it be an ongoing problem if there is no movement or expansion joint between the deck and the top of the pool wall (ie, coping or whatever) the answer is yes. It's a problem I've written about many times.

Also, I'm not from TX, but I know some parts of Texas have problems with soil that expands and contracts when the moisture level changes. If that's true in your location, getting control of the movement problem is even more critical.

Ben / PoolDoc

Thanks for the response.

I guess what my question was - should I be worried about anything else like the shell of the pool? Its 10+ years old and both inspectors didn't see anything other than it needing a re plastering in a few years.

I'm also wondering roughly how long it could take for water going down in those cracks behind the coping to be a problem. I'm relatively new to the area - but I do know this isn't the area of central texas where there is a lot of clay in the ground.

My apologies for moving your post, and then failing to upgrade your membership so you could post here.

Regarding your question, it seems like you've gotten an reasonable answer to your question from not one, but two, local inspectors who've actually seen the pool. Of course, the only guarantee in life is that it ends in death, but it seems like the most reasonable thing is to go with the odds that your inspectors are correct.

I don't see any way that we could do better here: shell condition is never certain, but it's REALLY uncertain when those offering opinions haven't even actually see it!

Good luck

PoolDoc

Thanks for the response. I guess my last question would be (please keep in mind I don't know anything about pool construction) but if they did not put an expansion joint on the coping, could the flexing of the deck cause problems with the shell? I know that water going down the cracks to earth surrounding the soil could cause problems.

Its just a big purchase for me and the pool guys seem to think that this was "old school" construction and no one leaves out the expansion joint anymore in this area. So then I'm worried about any other possible pitfalls.

Again, your LOCAL inspectors are going to know better than we do what sort of shell construction typically leads to problems in YOUR area.

Appropriate pool chemistry is universal; good pool construction is -- at least partly -- local.

Evaluating construction problems is VERY local; you're asking hypothetical questions that can't be answered with a high degree of accuracy, even locally. The answers you can get HERE, where none of us have seen your pool, are simply not going to be worth a whole lot.

Buying a house with an in-ground pool is ALWAYS a riskier and more uncertain process than buying a house without one. Just as it's always prudent to budget for unanticipated repairs on new house, it's a good idea to do so with a pool, too. This is especially true with an in-ground pool that is located in such a way you can't easily cover and ignore it if stuff goes wrong.

There's nothing we can do here to eliminate that uncertainty.

Usually, older shells that don't have cracks and problems, aren't on the verge of getting cracks and problems. But that's only a probability, not a certainty. You CAN get a better idea about the quality of the shell, when they do the coping repairs, since that will likely expose the top of the shell itself. But, again, no guarantees.

Here what's probably the bottom line for you: if your seller won't warrant the pool against major repairs for the next year, and you absolutely cannot afford the risk of $5,000 - $7,000 of unexpected pool repairs, you might want to look for another house. It sounds like you already have evidence that your risks -- apart from the deck / coping issue -- are low, but they are not zero.

Hope that helps with your decision.

PoolDoc

Thanks for all the help - you are exactly right I wasn't looking for definite answers just probability from people more knowledgeable than I am.

We could afford some of the repair costs, but with us buying a 18 year old house with original AC we are planning on having other costly repairs pretty early on.

As for the bottom line - we are planning on adding an amendment for the contract asking that they either 1. pay for the repairs or 2. give us an allowance vs the estimate amount.

If they don't do either - we will walk - doesn't seem right to accept a house with a 5k+ repair right off the bat for the market value of the house with no problems.

Glad it helped.

Ben