green pool: like black/green pool

[bazman]

i just started up the pump / filter on my abg pool ealrier today.
pool = 25 X 15
in massachusetts.
i did not cover in the winter and the pool is a dark green.
i recently purchased a taylor k-2006.
not an expert in using and it took me a while to do two tests so i wanted to report those.
there is no free chlorine. when i added two dippers, it did not turn pink. i added 3 more and it never showed any sign of turning pink.
i also did the ph test and it was slightly off the charts high. i treied the acid demand test.after 2 drops, it ws ph = 7-3.
i added 1 gallon of pool store shock (12.5) aerlier today.
i dont hink there is much leaves etc at the bottom, but i cannot see. using my net, it did not seem like there was much there.

[Watermom]

What is the volume of your pool?

[bazman]

~10,000 gallons

[aylad]

In a 10K gallon pool, 2 gallons of 6% bleach will take the chlorine to shock level at 12 ppm. I'm assuming you have no stabilizer. You need to get the chlorine up to 12-15 ppm, keeping it there by testing and adding more chlorine as often as possible to maintain that 12-15 until the water clears. Each 3 cups of bleach will raise your FC by 1 ppm, so you can use that as a guide to figure out how much you need to add each time. Brush it daily, keep your pump/filter running 24/7 and clean filter as needed. This will help it clear. If you will scoop out anything you see on the bottom, it will help. The key is going to be getting it up to shock level and keeping it there.

Janet

[bazman]

spent a lot of time cleaning out the pool yesterday.
added 1.75gl of 6% clorine (clorox) at 3:30
have a aqua rover that picks up from the floor, independendent of the filter. emptied it 8/9 times. that was full of thick slimey gunk and some fir tree leaves (which are like little pins).
it did seem to get les as the day progressed.
i backwahsed 5/6 times.
at 7:30pm, i added another 1.75gl.
it was still v dark green going to bed. i did not test, as i thought there was no chemical change.
i left the filter on high all night.
this morning, the pool had turned mustard, so it seems i am making progress.
had to catch a train for work, so no time to test again. will do so when i get home.
called my wife, and she added about 1 more gallon of 6%.

[Watermom]

Post a complete set of current water testing results this evening, please. The more times per day that you (or somebody) can test and each time, add enough bleach to get back to shock level, the faster this clean up will go. Adding one gallon will only take you up to 6ppm, not high enough. You need to be adding however much it takes to get to 12ppm each time.

[bazman]

to update my earlier note, my wife had actually added 1.75 gallon in the morning.
she then added 1 gal in the afternoon.

i tested when i got home moments ago.

per my k-2006
FC = .4PPM
CC = -32PPM (It took 16 drops to get back to colorless after the FC test)

PH = 6.8
BASE Demand Test = 5 drops (not sure wherer to find my treatment table

Alkilinity = 40 ppm Total Alkalinity as Calcium Carbonate.

dont know if it makes a difference, but there has been a thunderstorm here during the time of testing.
i did dig down into the pool for the results, so i would hope the rain did not impact the results.

[sturev]

If you put two gallons of bleach in the pool, how long is it before it drops below 12ppm? At that point is when you need to add more bleach. I suspect that your either never hitting 12ppm or if you are, it's only lasting 15 to 30 mins... If your able to keep it at shock level more often, it's going to take way less time to clear. If that means adding 2 gallons every hour then so be it :eek:

You should get some Borax in the pool ASAP, your reading of 6.8 is probably not accurate as that's probably just the lowest the test will measure and it could be much lower... Get it up to about 7.2 if you can as soon as possible, it can damage your pump and other equipment.

PS, you can go to http://www.poolcalculator.com to plug your numbers in and see how much borax to add.

[bazman]

i just got back from wal mart after getting four 4lb of 20 mule team borax
i am going to the calculator to find out how much i need to put in the pool.
is it ok to include chlorine nad borax at the same time? do they offset ph-wise?or is that the actual idea?
also, what does 12 ppm mean. i know there are three types of chlorine ppm readings. which one is being referenced below.
i am going to bed at some stage tonight, so i will have one more trip to the pool.
if i can put in the chlorine and the borax at one time, what is the max amount of chlroine i can put in without adverse side effects. also, if i cannot put both in at the same time
which one is more important to put in.

also, i used my pool rover again tonight. hardly any green gunk at all. quite the normal dirt one would find.
the water is a very light green now, with slight increase in visibility depth
there is a white "spray" forming on the surface.
i tried the cya test, and i think it was at 30. that test does seem a bit subjective. if i squinted just right, i could see the essence of the black spot at the bottom, even at 30.

[bazman]

the pool calculator suggested 2 of the 4lb boxes of borax to raise my ph.
i just added.
i would like to know if i can throw some chlorine in tonight also without limiting the job that the borax is trying to accomplish.

[Watermom]

Always better to add things gradually rather than a huge dose all at once and overshoot your target. 8 lbs. of Borax at one time is a lot. We'll see what your pH reading is in the morning, but in the future, I would advise against adding so much at once.

It is fine to add bleach and Borax at the same time. I do it all the time with no problem.

Not sure about the "white spray." Did it start before or after the Borax addition?

Repost in the morning with new numbers and tell us how the water looks. The more times per day that you can add enough bleach to get back up to shock level, the better. There is no such thing as testing and dosing with bleach too often. Glad it is looking better.

[sturev]

also, what does 12 ppm mean. i know there are three types of chlorine ppm readings. which one is being referenced below.


12 ppm is the level of FC (Free Chlorine) that your shooting for by adding bleach.

The objective is to get your FC to 12ppm and keep it there until you have zero CC and you don't loose anymore than 1ppm of FC overnight (Dusk till Dawn/before the sun hits the water).

Like Watermom said, there's no limit on the number of times you can test and dose to keep your level at 12ppm.

[bazman]

my wife just tested the ph and chlorine.
the ph is now at 8
free chlorine is now at 8,
combined chlroin ia now at 16.
after the test, she added two bottles (3gal).

[Watermom]

I doubt that the CC is 16. If it is, you have a MAJOR PROBLEM! :eek:;)

Try those chlorine tests again.

[CarlD]

I doubt that the CC is 16. If it is, you have a MAJOR PROBLEM! :eek:;)

Try those chlorine tests again.

Yeah, you could probably walk on that water--but I'd wear boots to do it!:p

[bazman]

i chlorine tested twice since i got home.
both times, the results were more ridiculous than below.
the last test i:
filled the container up to 10 ml
added two dippers of r870 (presuming dippers are the scoop piece at the end)
water turned and stayed bright pink.
i added r871. to return to colorless, i added 9 drops.
per the instructuions, that is 45ppm. is that possible?

fwiw, the CC was 45 also, as it took 9 drops to bring that test water to colorless)


in all i have added 11 x 1-75 gallons of 6% bleach since sunday.

[waterbear]

i chlorine tested twice since i got home.
both times, the results were more ridiculous than below.
the last test i:
filled the container up to 10 ml
added two dippers of r870 (presuming dippers are the scoop piece at the end)
Dipper looks like a little spoon. Flat end is the handle.

water turned and stayed bright pink.
i added r871. to return to colorless, i added 9 drops.
per the instructuions, that is 45ppm. is that possible?
That would be 4.5 ppm and is very possible. 9 drops x .5 = 4.5 ppm FC, not 45 ppm
fwiw, the CC was 45 also, as it took 9 drops to bring that test water to colorless)
You mean it turned pink again after adding the third reagent and the second titration took aonther 9 drops to turn colorless? That would mean a LOT of CC, 4.5 ppm, and that you need to continue shocking the water. These readings are not unusual with a green pool.
However, if you added the 5 drops of the third reagent and the sample stayed colorless then the CC would be 0 ppm.
in all i have added 11 x 1-75 gallons of 6% bleach since sunday.

Why do you consider these results ridiculous?
After reading through your thread I believe that yoiu might not be doing the chlorine tests properly. I wounder if you would document the next time step by step exactly what you are doing so we can double check you. I have already found one error that I noted above and am not sure but might have spotted another one.

[bazman]

i thought the results ridiculous because of my error in the calcs.
i did add the third reagent and the second titration took another 9 drops to turn colorless.
therefore the results seem to be getting where they need to be. slowly,
i will shock once more now. i will test again in an hour to check the chlorine level.

[bazman]

i tested last night an hour after i added 2 * 1.42gl * 6% bleach (~10:30pm)
the FC was 20.
this morning at 6 am the FC was 8.
i added 1 * 1.42gl * 6% bleach before catching my train
my wife added 1 * 1.42gl * 6% bleach ~10am.
she will not be testing, so the next test results i will have will be this evening.

[waterbear]

sounds like you are on the right track. Just remember, patience and persistence!

[bazman]

FC was at 8 last night when i tested, ph was 7.4.
i put in 3 * 1.42gl * 6% bleach (~10pm)
i tested at 6am this morning, and the fc was at 20.
i did not add any chlorine today.
i am going to ask my wife to test this morning. if the fc goes down, then i will ask her to dump more chlorine in there.

if i take a sample out, it is clear, but a little cloudy. to look at the pool, the water is aqua. there is still a little bit of white slightly foaming color on top of the pool. i think this is a result of putting so much bleach in there, and am not tremendously worried.

one other thing regarding the bleach. i bought walmart bleach last night, as opposed to chlorox. any difference to the pool? they both say 6% chlorine. i can go to bjs, and get chlorox for around the same price. it is a bit more work, but if it made a material difference, i would do it.

[Watermom]

Some of the clorox bleach has extra stuff in it. Just stick with walmart generic bleach.

[bazman]

no bleach added today

wife tested after lunch.
fc was at 9.5
ph = 7.5

i tested an hour ago
fc = 5
cc = 5
ph = 7-5

water is clean but cloudy.
sounds like i need more bleach.

[Watermom]

Yes you do! I hope your numbers are just testing error and you really do not have a CC of 5! Retest again in the morning. Don't know if you'll check this thread tonight, but if you do, you need to shock your pool again.

[bazman]

added 1 * 1.42gl * 6% bleach
tested an hour later.

fc was at 21
cc= 3.5
ph = 7-5
cya = 90
ch = 90

added another bottle after i took the sample
will add another bottle soon.

i would like to have the family swimming safely tomorrow.

is that possible, and what would be the main results that i would have to look for?

[bazman]

tested again at 10:30. about an hour after last addition of bleach:

fc was at 21
cc= 3.5


added another bottle after extracting the test sample.

[Watermom]

It is not safe to swim in a pool with a CC reading of 3.5. Sorry. I know that is not what you wanted to hear. Maybe if you can, test it again before going to bed and hit it with more bleach and then test/dose every two hours in the morning. See where you are at that point. Repost in the am and let us see how the numbers are going. Keeping my fingers crossed that you get past this quickly!

[bazman]

tested last night an hout after i added the third bottle of the evening

fc = 22
cc = 3

tested this morning at 6
fc = 28
cc = 2.5

you mention the cc number. so is it fair to say that if the fc number stays high, and the cc comes down it will be ok? if so, what would be an acceptable cc?

regarding my chlorine testing, here are the steps i am using

dip a plastic water bottle into the pool about 18 inches below water level.
put 10 ml into the larger container of the test tubes
add two of those little scoops of the granular item (in the thousands and ends with a 0)
this turns the water red / pink
add the drops from the brown bottle (in the thousands and ends with a 1)
fc ppm = amount of drops to turn the water clear / 2
i then add the other clear bottle (0003, i believe) to turn it red / pink again
add the drops from the brown bottle (in the thousands and ends with a 1)
cc ppm = amount of drops to turn the water clear / 2


this is

[Watermom]

I'm not clear on how you are doing the test.

After you add the two scoops of powder and the sample turns pink, you add drops of R-0871 until it turns colorless. Then you multiply the number of drops by 0.5 for a 10ml sample. This is your FC. (You wrote -- fc ppm = amount of drops to turn the water clear / 2. That is the part that wasn't clear to me about what you meant.)

Then, you add 5 drops of the R-0003 and then add drops of R-0871 one a time until it turns clear. Then, again, you multiply the number of drops by 0.5 for a 10ml sample. This is your CC.

Is this the way you are doing it? What does the / 2 part mean?

Please clarify for me and if you did not perform the test in this manner, try again and repost with corrected numbers.

If the numbers you posted are correct, it looks unlikely that you will be able to swim today. You don't want to swim in water that has a CC reading higher than 0.5 and I also wouldn't swim if the FC was higher than 10ppm. (Even then, you would need to wear old swimsuits that you wouldn't be upset if it faded some.)

[bazman]

/ 2 = dividing by 2 = multiplying by 0.5

i think i am shooting for sunday, now. i will continue to shock today, keep the fc up high.
an other way to decrease the cc? would stabilizer work? if so, is the pool store the only place to get that?

[Watermom]

OK. I didn't realize you were using the / key to mean divide. Wasn't even thinking of that. And, of course, dividing by 2 is the same as multiplying by 0.5.

No way to get rid of CC except to continue shocking the pool. Stabilizer will not take care of it. CC is the combined chlorine --- meaning chlorine that has been "used up" sanitizing something in the water. You want it to be 0. Just keep hitting it with bleach. I hope by Sunday you can swim. There is no way to know if it will be ready by then. The only thing I can say (and I know I've said it before) -- the more times you test and shock the faster it will go. If you are home from work, do it every hour or two if you can. A pain in the butt, yes, but it will speed it up.

(To clarify something you asked several days back in this thread regarding 3 types of chlorine readings. One of them, CC, I explained in this post already. FC = free chlorine. This is the chlorine that is still available to be used sanitizing your water. TC = total chlorine and is the sum of FC + CC.)

[bazman]

ran out of the 0871, so i am not able to test the FC and TC.
found a place online for refills http://www.recsupply.com/Category/69_0/Reagents.aspx
they have 2oz bottles for $11 with $8.75 for shipping
that will come in 3-7 business days.
i tried the pool store but they do not have the refill, as far as i can see.
is there anywhere else i can go and buy without waiting / paying for shipping?