Algae...pool store test results

[SoCalBoo]

Have mustard algea for a few months now. Not all over the pool, just along a south facing wall, intermittent. I have been adding about 1-2 quarts of acid per week. Took water in to pool store and helpful guy tested right in front of me:

FAC - 2.0 ppm
CAC - 0 ppm
ph - 8 +
TA - 120
CYA - 50 ppm
Salt - 2700
Said calcium hardness wasn't necessary

I have in ground, 22,500 gallon pool with 7 ft round spa, pool pilot SWG, solar, plaster. I have the SWG up to level 3 (highest level) at about 50%. The cell is rated up to 48,000 gallons, so my pool is on the very bottom end of size for the cell. I always wondered why the cell was cranked up so high in relation to my size pool. Also, I was told to take the sample close to one of the returns.

My SWG reads 3100 on salt reading - should I re-calibrate or wait until everything algae issue resolved and pool balanced.

Here's what the pool guy said:

1. Ph is high, so that driving the chlorine down.
2. Once Ph gets taken care of, chlorine will level out (with FC of 2...seems like chlorine is fine to me).
3. Stabilizer is kind of low (pool pilot recommends 60-80, pool store recommends 30-50), but didn't want me to add any...see if pool can balanced w/out adding first
4. Alkalinity is high, would like to see lowered to 90 or so (pool pilot recommends 80-150, pool store recommends 80-120)
5. To lower alk 10 ppm, i need to add 48 ounces of acid.

Here's what he recommended:

1. shut pump off, add 1 gallon of acid to a few gallons of water. add to deep end
2. wait 15 minutes
3. while waiting, brush all plaster
4. turn on pump, let cycle once (4 hours for me)
5. force solar valve on (if too cold to have it done by temp)
6. add 16 ozs of yellowtrine to pool
7. add 1 bag of chlorine shock to skimmer to run through solar
8. add 1 bag of chlorine shock to pool
9. run for 24 hours.

Any thoughts? Is this bogus, or am I heading the right direction? A 3 lb container of the yellowtrine was $20...am I just getting ripped off, or is this reasonable (I'd even settle for expensive, but worth it). Any problem adding chlorine shock to salt pool (I have non-chlorine shock, but he said to use the chlorine stuff instead)?

Thank You!

[JohnT]

Your problems are high pH and low chlorine. Fix those and you will be in way better shape. Get the Cl up over 15 and get your pH into the 7.5 neighborhood. They are not related, in spit of what your pool store guy said.

[CarlD]

Have mustard algea for a few months now. Not all over the pool, just along a south facing wall, intermittent. I have been adding about 1-2 quarts of acid per week. Took water in to pool store and helpful guy tested right in front of me:

FAC - 2.0 ppm
CAC - 0 ppm
ph - 8 +
TA - 120
CYA - 50 ppm
Salt - 2700
Said calcium hardness wasn't necessary

I have in ground, 22,500 gallon pool with 7 ft round spa, pool pilot SWG, solar, plaster. I have the SWG up to level 3 (highest level) at about 50%. The cell is rated up to 48,000 gallons, so my pool is on the very bottom end of size for the cell. I always wondered why the cell was cranked up so high in relation to my size pool. Also, I was told to take the sample close to one of the returns.

My SWG reads 3100 on salt reading - should I re-calibrate or wait until everything algae issue resolved and pool balanced.

Here's what the pool guy said:

1. Ph is high, so that driving the chlorine down.

Idiot pool store guy. The high pH does make the chlorine less effective, though.



2. Once Ph gets taken care of, chlorine will level out (with FC of 2...seems like chlorine is fine to me).

Huh???? How does he think THAT will happen???



3. Stabilizer is kind of low (pool pilot recommends 60-80, pool store recommends 30-50), but didn't want me to add any...see if pool can balanced w/out adding first

Wow! He was right on this one! (even a broken clock is right twice a day).



4. Alkalinity is high, would like to see lowered to 90 or so (pool pilot recommends 80-150, pool store recommends 80-120)

More bad advice. 120 is FINE--and when your pH comes down to 7.5 or so, your alkalinity will drop with it.



5. To lower alk 10 ppm, i need to add 48 ounces of acid.

Here's what he recommended:

1. shut pump off, add 1 gallon of acid to a few gallons of water. add to deep end
2. wait 15 minutes
3. while waiting, brush all plaster
4. turn on pump, let cycle once (4 hours for me)
5. force solar valve on (if too cold to have it done by temp)
6. add 16 ozs of yellowtrine to pool
7. add 1 bag of chlorine shock to skimmer to run through solar
8. add 1 bag of chlorine shock to pool
9. run for 24 hours.

Any thoughts? Is this bogus, or am I heading the right direction?

No, No, NOOOOOO!!! This bozo is going to damage your pool big time.
1) You do NOT need to lower your Total Alkalinity
2) The "Slug" method (as this is called) does not work and can only damage your pool. Check out the PROPER way to lower Total Alkalinity in our Alkalinity and Calcium forum.

What the (blank) is yellowtrine??? You do NOT need it. And all this mystical use of shock? I'm surprised this clown didn't insist you do it at midnight under a full moon while wearing a tin-foal hat! ALL you need is bleach--regular bleach--to shock your pool. You can use liquid chlorine--it's the same stuff. You can pour it in the skimmer (while the pump is running), pour it slowly into the return stream, or walk around the pool dribbling it in. All 3 work just fine, and you ONLY have to do it the one way.

Bogus? You bet your boots! Or, in this case, your pool!



A 3 lb container of the yellowtrine was $20...am I just getting ripped off, or is this reasonable (I'd even settle for expensive, but worth it). Any problem adding chlorine shock to salt pool (I have non-chlorine shock, but he said to use the chlorine stuff instead)?

Thank You!

Still don't know what yellowtrine is....I'd return it. I guarantee you don't need it. He actually gave you another bit of correct advice(the broken clock is right for the second time)--use chlorine shock, not non-chlorine stuff with your SWG--it produces chlorine from salt--remember high school chemistry? Salt is Sodium Chlorine, and in the water as ions, chlorine is chlorine. But you are better off using chlorine from bleach than from powder. The ONLY advantage of powdered chlorine is that can be acidic--if it's di-chlor, but not if it's cal-hypo.

I'm glad you stopped by here. I hope you don't feel insulted by me--I'm ticked at the pool store clown dumping bad advice on you.

Good luck!

[SoCalBoo]

Carl,

I'm not insulted. Thanks for the advice. So here's my question - what they heck should I do? I've got high Ph, and I'm adding 1-2 quarts per week, and I can barely get it below 8ppm. Keep adding it? Add more?

And what do I do about the algae? Bleach? How much? Brush the pool? Timing with adding acid (assuming I need to)? How long should I run the pump afterwards?

And what do I do about my SWG, which seems to be working way, way too hard? The guy did the salt test in front of me, so I don't dispute the reading...my poolpilot is way off (300-400ppm). Should I recalibrate?

I really am not an idiot, but I don't want to damage my pool, and I know there are things you can add that you can never take away aside from draining part/all of your pool. So how about a punch list, please?

Thanks

[Watermom]

Not Carl, but maybe I will do.

Keep adding muriatic acid in front of a return jet - not in a big slug in the deep end. Keep working at it until you get the ph down to 7.4-7.6. To kill the algae, you need to shock your pool up to 15 and try and hold it at that level. In a pool your size, every 3 quart jug of plain, unscented household bleach will raise your cl by 2ppm. Test the water at least 2x (and 3x is better) a day and each time, add enough bleach to raise your cl level back up to 15. You can't let the cl level yo-yo up and down or you'll never kill the algae. It will take several doses, but if you will do this, it should kill the algae. Leave your alk alone. 120 is just fine. Brush the floor and walls and run your pump 24/7 while you are trying to clear the water. I am not a SWG person, so I can't help you with that part. At any rate, if you keep that chlorine level up, your water will clear. Hope this helps.

[SoCalBoo]

Anyone know of a test kit that will measure cl to 15. Mine stops at 4.

[Watermom]

Yeah - the one most of us use that Ben sells at the sister site to this forum. www.poolsolutions.com Well worth the money.

In the meantime, you can make your kit test higher by diluting your sample. Mix one part pool water and one part distilled water. Test as usual and then multiply the result by 2. Or, one part pool water, two parts distilled and multiply result by 3, etc. You do lose some accuracy with each dilution, but it is better than nothing. At any rate, think about buying Ben's kit. You won't be sorry.

[CarlD]

Funny you should ask......

The test you want is the FAS-DPD chlorine test, NOT the regular DPD test.

Ben (PoolDoc) has a test kit that is the ace of the crowd--it measures to 100ppm. You order it over on PoolSolutions.com

Then there's the Taylor 2006 kit that's pretty similar.

Taylor also sells a FAS-DPD kit just tests chlorine--to 50 or 100 ppm

Leslie's, on their web site, has a full kit with the DPD-FAS kit. It's branded Leslie's but made for them by Taylor. They also sometimes have, in their stores, the FAS-DPD kit only.

However, if you have a kit that measures to 5ppm, you can triple the range by the CarlD patented (well, not really) shot glass method. Mix 1 shot of pool water with 2 shots of steam distilled water. Use this mix in your chlorine tester and triple whatever you read--so if you read 5 it's really 15ppm.

BTW, getting advice from WaterMom is better than getting it from me--everyone knows she's nicer!:)

[Watermom]

awwww - now, ain't you sweet! :D :D :D

[SoCalBoo]

Alright, think things are going better. If it is 3 quarts for 2ppm on cl, and I'm at 2 and want to get to 15, I'll need 6 jugs (of the 3 qt variety). Got that part down.

What about solar...should I manually override temp control valve (too cold for solar to run at night) to have the pool water run through the solar pipes, or just wait till in automatically does tomorrow late am?

I read about the aeration method of adding acid...since I am just going for lower ph, does it matter?

Thanks for all the help. Hope none of the questions are stupid...just trying to get my water balanced and not pay someone $100/mo for something that I honestly believe I can do myself.

[PatL34]

Alright, think things are going better. If it is 3 quarts for 2ppm on cl, and I'm at 2 and want to get to 15, I'll need 6 jugs (of the 3 qt variety). Got that part down.

What about solar...should I manually override temp control valve (too cold for solar to run at night) to have the pool water run through the solar pipes, or just wait till in automatically does tomorrow late am?

I read about the aeration method of adding acid...since I am just going for lower ph, does it matter?

Thanks for all the help. Hope none of the questions are stupid...just trying to get my water balanced and not pay someone $100/mo for something that I honestly believe I can do myself.

Watermom gave you the main things to do regarding balancing your water chemistry, with one addition, and that is to vacuum to waste after brushing.

The SWG can be shut off for the time being until the algae is gone, and the chlorine level is down to about 3ppm constantly. Just disconnect the trisensor. There is no need to waste cell life with what you are doing right now. It will also cut down on the muriatic acid use as well.

Once you have brought things to normal with regular bleach, turn the SWG back on, and drop the power level to 2 using 50% as a start.

I am not sure what you mean by using the aeration method of adding acid. That's new one on me. The solar panels are not needed at night unless the water is really warm.

Hope this helps.

Pat

[SoCalBoo]

Pat,

Unplug the trisensor...is that the plug that goes into the cell?

Aeration - look at FAQ sticky under Alkalinity Subtopic

Solar Panels - I was thinking that some water with the bleach should be circulated up there to make sure that algae/'goo' up there gets some...is the 6 hours or so that it is hot enough for the thermostate to open the solar valve enough?

Thanks

[PatL34]

Pat,

Unplug the trisensor...is that the plug that goes into the cell?

Aeration - look at FAQ sticky under Alkalinity Subtopic

Solar Panels - I was thinking that some water with the bleach should be circulated up there to make sure that algae/'goo' up there gets some...is the 6 hours or so that it is hot enough for the thermostate to open the solar valve enough?

Thanks

The trisensor cable is the other one going to the tri-sensor plug before the cell.

Ok. I read the section on aeration with acid, and it is for lowering TA mainly although it will lower pH. If your TA levels are fine, then don't aerate.

There should be no need to run through the solar panels as they are after the filter. When the system is shut down, the panels should drain back to the pool.

Hope this helps.

Pat

[CarlD]

Also no reason not to run the solar panels, especially if your water is colder than you like. I'd rather keep water moving through them during the cleaning process. Still, when they are off, if you have a lot of sun, they may well get hot enough to bake any algae to death...They can get hot enough to burn you without circulation.

Either way, I guess.

[SoCalBoo]

so the pump has been on for about 14 hours, 6 of those hours through the solar. I put in the amount of bleach per poolmom's recommendation, and slowly added Ph throughout yesterday afternoon and evening at the return - used almost a gallon. Actually ended up overshooting the Ph a tad, but not too bad - Ph is 7.2 consistently in three areas of the pool and the spa this morning. Ch is at least 15 (I don't have a scientific method to test...my drop test stops at 5ppm, so I just put 1/3 pool water and 2/3 distilled water, and it is registering above the 5ppm sample). Interesting, TA only went down to 110 from 120. For the amount of acid I added, I would have expected a drop of about 25ppm (by my calculations for my size pool, it would take 48 oz to drop it 10ppm. Oh well, 110 is just fine by me.

I unplugged the trisensor.

So how long should I keep the cl level at 15ppm?

When is the pool safe to swim in...is it safe to swim at 15ppm of cl?

thanks for the help. things are looking better, but the proof will be in the pudding - or, actually, the absense of the mustard colored pudding on the side of my pool!

[SoCalBoo]

(bump)

After keeping ch level at or about 15 for a number of days, I held off on adding more chlorine yesterday, and the mustard returned. I was brushing at least once a day, ph was good (7.4-7.6). oh well. Ch is still registering about 12/13ppm (I don't have the most accurate method of testing...yet...just bought Ben's kit).

Figure it is time for poly. bought some poly today, the 60% strength. back of container says 11-17 oz per 10k of pool. I have 22,500g in ground, gunite and plaster. So that's 25-38 oz (container is 32 oz). Should I just put whole thing in there? Any problem with adding poly with pool with ch levels in low teens?

Thanks for the help. I'll cut and paste this over to the algae forum.