Pool Help, Please!

[megd22]

I recently bought a home and acquired an in-ground, vinyl swimming pool, with a DE filter. It is 18 x 36 and I was told from our pool place with their calculations it holds 33,000 gallons of water. Like many of the other posts, we have been having a tough time with the pool getting it clean. I had the pool ‘professionally’ opened last month, but we are still unable to use it. After spending hundreds of $$$ on pool chemicals, I came across this website and the BBB method. So to bring you up to speed, the pool is bluish-green and cloudy. We can not see to the bottom of the pool in the deep end, only about to the end of the ladder. We have added every chemical that the pool place recommended, but to no avail. I did add some bleach because when we do get the water tested our chlorine is too low. I just got the water tested about an hour ago, and now there is too much chlorine to get an accurate reading!! So I am unable to let you know what the pool levels are. I was told to come back in three to four days so they would be able to give me one. We are about to call it quits and put the cover on with all of the cleaning, vacuuming, money and time spent to see no results.

First, what can I do to combat the high chlorine levels? Is this what the baking soda would be used for? All help is greatly appreciated!!

[sturev]

Do you know what chemicals you've put into the pool? Not product names, but the chemicals themselves...

You really need your own test kit to care for your pool. It will pay for itself 100 times over! Since you can only buy the Taylor K-2006 online and it takes a few days to show up, go to Walmart asap and you can buy a temporary kit to use until the Taylor one is delivered. I believe they have 5 or 6 way kits for under $20 or so. You can use the 'shot glass' method to test high levels of Chlorine with the Walmart kit. Search for 'shot glass' and you can find the post that tells you how. Post the test results and what you've put in the pool and someone will help you.

[aylad]

Hi megd22 and welcome to the forum!!

High chlorine levels will take care of themselves with some sunlight and time, but I would first tell you to
run, not walk, away from that pool store. If they can't measure chlorine, then there's a HUGE problem. I am also suspicious of their estimation of the volume of your pool. One of the other mods has coined the term "pool-stored" to describe people like you who added what they told you to to no avail, except making them richer.

First and foremost, you need a good test kit. We recommend the Taylor K-2006. It's a bit pricey, but much less than what you've already spent on chems that don't help, and will save you its cost tenfold over this swim season. In the meantime, go to WalMart and get the 6-way kit that sells for around $15. (drop-based kit, NO STRIPS!).

Then come back and run a set of tests, then post them for:
TC, pH, TA, Ca,and CYA. We also need a list of what you've already added to the pool (ingredients, not just "shock"). Armed with that information, we can help you get it cleared up.

Janet

[megd22]

The pool analysis said 26,700 gallons of water. I’m not sure where I got the 33,000 from 

To date, here is what we have added to the pool in the month we have been treating it:
-Balance Pak 100--for low alkalinity
-Lo ‘N Slo--for pH adjustment
-Stabilizer 100--for low CYA levels
-Balance Pak 300--for low hardness
-Smart Shock
-Spot Kill
-Back up Algae Inhibitor
-3” chlorine tablets
-DE powder
-Polysheen Blue--for water clarity
-Balance Pak 200--for low pH
-Burn out Extreme shock
-Algaecide
-Some bleach

Luckily the former owners kept all of their testing supplies for us, so here is what I got from the 6-way tests I just did:

pH Test: 7.2

CYA test: 70ppm

Total Chlorine/Total Bromine: in the tube it turned orange and didn’t match any of the yellow on the charts. I’m assuming this is because our chlorine is really high like the pool place said. I’ll have to guy buy distilled water to do the shot glass test.

Alkalinity: I’m not sure why I did not get a reading and I did the test twice. I added the drops as directed and once I got to 11-12 drops it turned from green to a faint yellow. I added up to 30-35 drops on each test and it stayed yellow, no red.

Total Hardness: I swirled the drops around and the water turned clear, not red as indicated. I still added the titrant drops but it barely turned blue.

We’ll definitely have to order that Taylor-K kit to get more accurate readings. I’m sure this wasn’t much help to you…

[Watermom]

Well, it looks like you have been "pool-stored." :eek: That is quite a list you have there. I have had my pool for about 10 years and I can count on one hand the number of products I have used in my pool: bleach, borax, baking soda, Polyquat 60%. That's it. Only 4. And my water always looks great and is sanitized. You don't need a bunch of stuff to keep your pool maintained. But, your pool store needs you to buy a bunch of stuff to keep their cash register full!

With a CYA of 70, you are definitely gonna need that good test kit that can measure chlorine levels higher than a cheaper kit because higher cya means higher chlorine levels needed. Your cl will need to ALWAYS stay between 5-10 or you risk an algae bloom. Your shock level will be 20ppm when needed.

No more trichlor pucks or any dichlor powder for your pool. They both contain cya in them and your level is already high. Stick with plain bleach or liquid chlorine.

Your pH is ok at 7.2 but just don't let it go any lower. If it does, add a little Borax to get it between 7.2-7.8. You do NOT need calcium in a vinyl pool. Order that kit ASAP. It will be a big help to you.

Try the shot glass dilution method and report back tomorrow with your cl level.


BTW --- Who knows how old the kit may be. Your reagents may just not be good any longer. You can check the alk and CH when you get your Taylor kit.

EDIT --- Where are my manners? :confused::confused: I forgot to say welcome to the forum! We are glad you found us!

[waterbear]

a couple of things:

You didn't say but I suspect your 6 way test kit is an HTH (rebranded Taylor) since you said the TA test was supposed to go from green to red and that the hardness test is a total hardness test.

The Orange color of the OTO test indicates a fairly high FC level (definitely above 10 ppm and probably closer to 20 ppm)

The TA test turning from blue to pale yellow instead of green to red is from the high chlorine. One of the indicator dyes was bleached out by the chlorine. The test is still valid if you stop when the test changes from blue to yellow. That puts your TA at about 110 to 120 ppm. It's fine for now.

the high chlorine is bleaching out the calcium test also. The colors are more like pink and pastel blue anyway under the best conditions. Your reagents could also be old. Don't lose sleep over this until you get a new test kit.

pH of 7.2 is problematic if your reagents are not old. The high chlorine levels cause pH tests to read higher than they really are and we know your chlorine is high. I suspect your pH is actually much lower than 7.2, especially if the pool was maintained on trichlor or dichlor.. We can't know for sure until the chlorine level drops to a normal range. As a safeguard I would pour a half box of borax into the skimmer. It will bring the pH up without have much impact on anything else. Test the pH the next day. If the pH still reads 7.2 with the chlorine still reading high I would add another half box. This is more of a safeguard than anything else and if it turns out that the pH was ok and it ends up a bit high it's not a big problem and one that a bit of acid will take care of in a snap!

One final thing. When you get a test kit get the Taylor K-2006 (not the K-2005). It can test chlorine levels up to about 50 ppm with a precision as small as .2 ppm! If you had it now your chlorine would not be "too much chlorine to get a reading".

[Watermom]

Geez -- Waterbear, I think I must have been asleep when I answered that post. Of course the high cl is affecting those tests. Duh! Where is my brain today!! That is what I get for trying to read posts, read email, cook dinner, and direct kids to do chores all at the same time.

[waterbear]

Geez -- Waterbear, I think I must have been asleep when I answered that post. Of course the high cl is affecting those tests. Duh! Where is my brain today!! That is what I get for trying to read posts, read email, cook dinner, and direct kids to do chores all at the same time.

Well, I NEVER make mistakes in a post! :cool:
(You didin't see my post about the amount of CYA in trichlor, did you? :eek::rolleyes:)
;)

[Watermom]

Well, I wasn't gonna mention it ............. :rolleyes:

That is what is great about this place --- we got each other's backs!

[waterbear]

Well, I wasn't gonna mention it ............. :rolleyes:

That is what is great about this place --- we got each other's backs!

Hey, we're all family here!

[megd22]

Watermom-- Yes we have been "pool-stored," but the Taylor K-2006 kit was ordered last night so hopefully we're headed in the right direction now. After reading your post and waterbear's post, we have learned more in a day than we have in a month!! So, thank you.

Waterbearer--Yes, the test kit was the Wal-Mart HTH kit.

So today, I'm going to get diluted water to do the shot glass test and add borax to the skimmer. (My last trip to Wal-Mart I didn't see any, so hopefully I can find a place that has some.) Should I do the shot-glass test before I add the borax or should I test the chlorine and pH levels tomorrow after adding the borax?

-----
Just an FYI if anyone is having trouble finding borax, the company's website has a store locator within a radius of your zipcode (sorry if someone else already posted this). For the brand select laundry care: http://www.henkelna.com/henkel-store-locator-9949.htm

[aylad]

Whether you do the chlorine test before or after the Borax doesn't matter, the Borax won't interfere with it. I would wait until after the Borax has been in for a couple of hours before retesting pH, but keep in mind that if the Chlorine is still higher than 10 ppm you're still likely to get a falsely high pH reading.....

Janet

[waterbear]

Glad we can help. I have found that borax is often sold out and does not come in for several weeks so I pick up a box or two to keep on hand when I see it. (We use it for LOTS of things around the house. It truly is a miracle product!)

BTW, the name is waterbear, not waterbearer!;) Google it!:D

[megd22]

Waterbear--my apologies...I must have read waterbearer in my haste :)

So yesterday around 6pm I added a half box of borax. I can already see further down past the ladder than I did yesterday. About 5 minutes ago I tested pH and chlorine:

With the shot glass method I had to do 2 shots of distilled water and 1 shot pool water. With that I got 5...making it 15

For pH it looks to be about 7-7.2

Also, how much water loss/evaporation should I be experiencing each day? From yesterday to today we lost about an inch. Yesterday was about 90 degrees. We’ve been in the upper 90s-100 all week. So is this normal?

[sturev]

You're going to want to add more Borax to get the pH up some more...

What part of the country are you in? Water loss in normal, but I'm not sure about a full inch in 24 hrs, I'm sure others will chime and and give you a sense as to if that's normal or not. I only loose an inch a month due mainly to splash out as my pool is covered when it's not in use.

[Poconos]

Meg,
One inch in 24 hours is excessive. I know it's been hot in that area but that is still excessive. How long has this loss been going on? I helps to get as accurate loss measurement as possible. Use a ruler to measure the water level from a known, consistant point like the same place on a step, top of the skimmer opening, or any other reference. I assume with that kind of a drop that you have been adding water unless it just started. The RATE of loss vs. level is valuable info. If it is indeed a leak, as the level approaches the leak, the rate will slow down and eventually stop. If the leak is at the deep end, as was mine, the rate never changes measureably.

Some common leak points are the skimmer area, return plumbing below water level, but the best one is the area around the stairs where the liner is pinched by the retaining strips. If you have an underwater light that is another favorite. If, with accurate measurements, we decide it is a leak then there are ways to find it and fix it.

Hope you're off on your estimates and it is just evaporation that was overestimated.
Al

[megd22]

We live in Maryland.

We usually add more water to the pool every day or every other day depending how much it goes down. We'll check the water level tonight as see if it goes down any tomorrow and by how much.

[aylad]

I have the same size pool as you, and I agree that 1 inch daily is excessive, just for reference...

Janet

[CarlD]

I believe you can try the old bucket trick. You fill, say, a five gallon bucket with enough water to fill it pretty deeply, about the same as the pool, but not enough to sink. You can tie it to a ladder or something. Measure the water and the water in your pool. If, 24 hours later, there is an inch loss in the pool AND in the bucket, your pool is not leaking (unless there's a hole in the bucket!:eek: ). If, however, the bucket level has not gone down but the pool has, start searching for a leak somewhere.

[megd22]

We added a 1/2 box borax around 8 am and after testing added the other half since pH is low. We received the Taylor K-2006 kit in the mail today, so here are the results after testing with it:

pH= 7.0
cya= 80
alkalinity= 150
free chlorine= 8 (10 mL sample, 16 drops * 0.5)
when we tested for combined chlorine in step 5 after adding the 5 drops of R-0003, the sample never turned pink it stayed clear. should I add more drops until it does turn pink or this won't happen because chlorine is too high?

[sturev]

Congrats! you have no CC... :D That's a good thing! If after 5 drops it's not pink, your in business!

Your ph is still low, add more borax and wait about an hour and test and add more if need be.

Are you still loosing water?

[waterbear]

Your pH of 7 is the lowest you would want to be and since the FC is less than 10 there is no interference from high chlorine at the present time. I would add another half box of borax to be on the safe side.
I would also perform the bucket test to check for leaks and insepect the equipment area to make sure everything is dry there. Pay close attention to any valves and unions that might be on the equipment and the lid on the pump strainer. (anything with an O-ring for that matter).

[megd22]

We have seen some water loss, we are going to do the bucket test tonight. We did find 2 tiny holes in the liner and we used a vinyl repair kit to fix those. Also, we do have a light fixture in the deep end of the pool which seems to be pretty loose. First, can we replace the light under water? I wasn't sure if this was encased in something that allowed us to be able to do that. Also, should we just go to the pool store to get screws that would allow us to tighten that?

Since the pool is cloudy, does increasing the pH help to fix this? Sorry for all of the questions! We’re still trying to figure all of this out. :)

[aylad]

Adding the pH isn't going to fix cloudy water. With a CYA of 80, are you being diligent about maintaining Cl levels no less than 5? Is this cloudiness new or is it something you're still dealing with from when you first posted? l If the water cleared, and is now becoming cloudy, then you need to shock the pool. If it's remaining cloudy after shocking to clear up algae, then you need to keep the filter running and just give it time to filter out. If the cloudiness happened when you added the Borax, it could be that it just needs more time to completely dissolve.

Can't help you with the pool light issue--but will be interested in the result of your bucket test.

Janet

[megd22]

We've been dealing with cloudy water since I first posted. It has gotten significantly better though since my initial post. We have been keeping the filter running for most of the day and we also vacuum as much as we can. On the bottom of the shallow end it looks like there is 'stuff' stuck to it that we cannot vacuum up. Is this dead algae that we need to scrub off?

After the last test here were the results I got:

CYA a little more than 100 (if the test gets cloudy before the 100 mark on the tester, how can you tell the exact number?)
chlorine: 2.5
pH: 7.6

so now that the chlorine dropped again, do I add more bleach?

After the bucket test it looks like we're losing about a 1/2 inch a day. So now we have to find the leak :(

[aylad]

It's very, very hard to read an exact number on the CYA test--that's why it's a ballpark at best. Also, since the CYA is using turbidity of the water as an indicator, running the test with water that is cloudy to begin with can give you falsely high results. However, it's better to overchlorinate than underchlorinate, so... Using 100 as your number, then you need to be keeping your chlorine no less than 8 ppm, so you definitely need to get some chlorine in there ASAP.

Hopefully you can find your leak without too much of a problem--if all else fails, you can always just let the water continue to drain out--when the water level gets to the level of the leak, it will stop and at least give you a place to start looking!

Janet