suggestions on chem levels

[smileitsachoice]

I just drained about 10k gallons out of my pool. Thanks to being pool stored my cya was over 100. I just tested and the following are my results.

cya=60
fc=8.0 ppm
cc= 0 ppm
ph= 7.5
ta=100
cal=200

I have a 20*40 in ground vinyl pool @ 30k gallons. Before draining cya was over 100, ph was =< 6.8. I have be using tri chlor pucks for over 3 years, and shocking with cal hypo.
Thanks for you help and a great website.

[Watermom]

Welcome! I like your username, BTW.

A cya of 60 is going to be SO much easier to manage. Actually your numbers look pretty good. With this cya level, you'll just need to keep your FC between 5-10 ALL the time and your shock level will be 20. I would also suggest not using any more cal-hypo. You already have a calcium hardness reading of 200 and vinyl doesn't need calcium. Too much can cloud the water. Also, no more trichlor pucks or dichlor shock powder. Both contain cya and you don't want yours any higher. I would suggest just using bleach for your daily chlorination and for shocking when needed. Hope this helps! Thanks for subscribing!

[smileitsachoice]

Yea I have wrote off trichlor and dichlor, Sticking to the bleach. Do you think it would make sense to drain more water to get down in the 30 to 50 range for cya. It takes alot of bleach to shock a 30k gallon pool to 20 ppm. I am thinking I would like to drop my cya so I can lower my fc level to around 4 or 5 ppm. Also I run my pump about 10 hours a day. I have a Hayward s244t sand filter with a AO Smith st1102 1 hp pump, two 1.5 returns one in the deep end and one in the shallow. 2- 1.5 skimmer, and a additonal 1.5 side intake in the deep end. Does this seem like enough run time for the pump?

Again thanks.

[aylad]

If draining water isn't too expensive for you, then if you can drain enough to get your CYa down to that 30-40 range, it really would make it easier on you to keep the pool clear, especially if you're using bleach/liquid chlorine. However, before you do that, I would go a couple of weeks with it at 60 and see how it works out for you. You are in much the same climate as I am in northern Louisiana, and I intentionally keep mine high because I lose a LOT less chlorine that way. Granted, it's harder to get it up to the 20 ppm level to shock, but by the same token you're starting out with a much higher level before you start adding. By keeping it high I find that I can easily maintain my chlorine by the Best Guess Table by making a couple of additions per week, whereas if I keep the CYA lower, it requires daily additions....and I'm as lazy as the next person! ;)

As far as run time goes, my pool is 18 x 36 with 1 HP motor and one skimmer, and I only really need to run it 6-7 hours a day to turn over my water once, which is your goal. In reality, I turn it on when I get up and off when I go to bed so it runs much longer than that, but 10 hours daily should be plenty of time for your pump to run,.

Welcome to the forum!

Janet

[smileitsachoice]

Thank you so much for your advice. Will try the higher cya for awhile. Daytime temps in northern Alabama around 100, and my pool is in full sun all day.

Thanks and Roll Tide.

[aylad]

Mine too, I end up keeping mine in the 80-90 range. That's much higher than I recommend for most pools, but mine is in full sun all day too, and with our heat and humidity, I just lose less chlorine that way. Try it and let me know how it goes!

Janet

[smileitsachoice]

My only problem is I have a wife and duaghter that have blond hair. Higher chlorine levels seem to be harder on them. It also seems to cause some skin dryness. It my just be that was the case with my unbalanced water earlier in the year. I was trying to out pace my cya with large doses of chlorine. Now that I have a better balance I am going to let in run for a couple of weeks and try it. I do like the less labor idea.

Thanks

[aylad]

Higher chlorine levels with lower CYA levels do tend to be drying--but if you're keeping your Cl levels in line with CYA, you shouldn't have much of a problem. The girl that cuts my hair tells me that if you'll rinse hair with tap water before going into pool and again after, that it helps decrease the drying. A good conditioner helps, too.

Janet

[docsobeck]

i had a copper disaster several summers ago (and ben REALLY bailed my hind end out in that case), but one of the things i had to do was keep very high FC levels for a couple of weeks. my wife's stylist is a friend, and she strongly recommended putting in just a bit of leave-in conditioner before spending much time in the water, and it seemed to really help.

for the record, i'm with everyone else. i'd leave the CYA where it is and see how it goes. depending on your bather load/habits and backwashing, it'll creep its way down as the summer wears on and pool water is replaced.

[thilbert]

You may also want to add a few bags of solar salt to your pool to alleviate the "straw hair" as my wife calls it. I also find that it softens the water and helps with the dry skin.

Everyone that swims in my pool loves the added salt. Rave reviews all around.

-Troy

[smileitsachoice]

Sorry about the slow reply I just got out of the pool. I like the salt idea. How much in pounds?

[Digger]

That's interesting with the salt idea, is this being added to pools without the special salt chlorinators? I am assuming that is what you are talking about. How do you add it, just into the skimmer? At what rates? Thanks!

[waterbear]

You may also want to add a few bags of solar salt to your pool to alleviate the "straw hair" as my wife calls it. I also find that it softens the water and helps with the dry skin.

Everyone that swims in my pool loves the added salt. Rave reviews all around.

-Troy

The salt does not 'soften the water'. It just brings the water closer to the isoelectric point of the human body so it is perceived as milder. All the fluids in our body are 'salty'. To actually soften the water you need an ion exchange resin that exchanges sodium ions (from the salt put into the water softener to 'charge' the resin) for calcium and magnesium ion in the water. Just adding salt to water has no effect on calcium or magnesium hardness.

All that being said, the vast majority of people do report that having 1000-3000 ppm salt in the water is a more pleasant swimming experience (less eye stinging, less 'pruning' of toes and fingers because the water is closer to the saltiness of our tears and the water in our skin cells.) All you have to do is dump in some solar salt or water softener pellet salt. It will dissolve in a few hours. Four 40 lb bags will raise 10000 gallon about 2000 ppm. (about eight and 1/3 lbs salt per 1000 gallons raises the salt 1000 ppm). If you have no salt in your pool anywhere from 1/2 to 1 bag per 2500 gallons will get you in the ballpark. Also, like CYA and borates, salt is only lost from splashout and backwashing, it does not 'evaporate' or get consumed in any way.

[sturev]

Are there any risks or downsides to adding salt to a pool that's not a 'true' salt water pool? Corrosion?

[smileitsachoice]

Thanks for the info. I have bought 4 40# bages from Lowes and some Accucheck salt strips. Looking forward to trying. Thanks again

[waterbear]

Are there any risks or downsides to adding salt to a pool that's not a 'true' salt water pool? Corrosion?

Corrosion is alway a risk in any pool, salt or not. (and any pool that uses chlorine will have salt in it. It's what forms in the water when the chlorine is used up sanitizing and oxidizing stuff!)

That being said, there is pool equipment out there that is not compatible with salt levels found in SWG pools (3000 ppm or higher), mainly steel frame AGPs, older heaters with copper heat exchangers, some ladders and a lot of the cheap stainless steel screws that manufacturers include with light niches and ladder mounts to save a few pennies. Most newer pool equipment had no problems with salt.

Also, it seems that the natural rock used in some pool construction in certain parts of the country (parts of Texas seem to have the most problems) are susceptible to damage from salt.
IMHO, this is because materials are being used in pool construction that should not be used. Period. I live on the coast (actually less than a block from the Atlantic and about a quarter block from the Intercoastal) so construction here (and not just pool construction) is designed to be resistant to salt effects.
This is why I say it is not the salt that is causing the damage but the selection of unsuitable building materials.

[sturev]

Thanks Evan! (like the name BTW :D)

[sturev]

That being said, there is pool equipment out there that is not compatible with salt levels found in SWG pools (3000 ppm or higher), mainly steel frame AGPs, older heaters with copper heat exchangers

Humm... I have a heater with a copper heat exchanger...http://www.haywardnet.com/aboveground/products/displayProd.cfm?ProductID=81#six
I guess this means I shouldn't up my salt levels...? I wonder if I stayed on the lower end of the scale if it would be ok? (1000 ppm)

[chem geek]

It's a spectrum of risk. A copper heat exchanger is more susceptible to corrosion than a cupro-nickel alloy or a titanium heat exchanger, but it doesn't mean that it will definitely corrode too quickly at SWG salt levels (typically 3000 ppm). There is no question that it will corrode faster, but as to whether this will be a problem before the heater would fail for other reasons, that is not certain.

Given how many people have converted to SWG pools, I think the copper heat exchangers aren't the biggest problem -- at least that isn't the most common complaint. The other items waterbear mentioned seem to be the more common issues -- namely, cheap stainless steel or regular steel (or even zinc) used in screws and some softer stones used in parts of the country that also don't have regular summer rains. "Vanishing" aluminum headers on automatic covers and aluminum tracks are also a problem, but are usually mitigated by using a sacrificial anode. In fact, you could at least partially protect all the metal in your pool by attaching a sacrificial anode (usually zinc; sometimes magnesium) buried in moist soil to the bonding wire.

[thilbert]

Sorry, didn't mean to do a drive by and not answer your questions regarding salt. Waterbear nailed it. You could do a google search for pool calculator and find a nifty online tool that will tell you the effects of adding various amount of "stuff" to your pool, including salt.

Waterbear, thanks for clearing up the "softening" issue. Not being a chemist I was attempting to explain my own experiences with salt and "soft" was the only thing my feeble mind could come up with. :)