Hayward Pump questions

[rhosk]

I currently have a Hayward Super Pump, 3/4 HP that has been in use for over 15 years. I feel that the pump is on its last legs as it's getting more noisy this year as time goes on. Sometimes it's fine and other times, it's very noticeable.

In any event, a little background: I have a Hayward Micro-Clear DE-3600 Filter (flow rate 72 GPM). The pool is an in-ground 16x32 vinyl, @20K gallons. I installed solar panels on my roof last year and the rise is about 25 feet. The pump has handled this perfectly fine, but I'm wondering if it could stand a bit more horse power (maybe it caused the current pump to work slightly harder and attributed to it slowly failing?).

My questions:

Would it hurt to get a 1 HP pump replacement or should I stick with the 3/4 HP? Or conversely get even more HP?

And the pump description says it "must be hard wired". My current pump simply plugs into a GFCI standard 115VAC receptacle and is controlled by a switch above. Hopefully "must be hard wired" means I have to manually add the power cord? Or does it mean it must be hard wired to the circuit (w/o the receptacle)? Obviously, the receptacle's convenient as I store the pump away for winter.

[Poconos]

Hi Ron,
The pressure gauge will tell if you're taxing the pump. What kind of pressures do you normally run? 15 years? Part of me says if it lasted this long then it's good for another 15. Joking. Really depends on what is causing the noise. One or both of two things. Water pressure seal or bearings. The fact it is at times quiet still doesn't point to one or the other.
If you do replace it and that size has been working fine then stick with the same and save electricity. As for the solar 25' in the air, once it is filled with water it may as well be laying flat on the ground. Takes a little more poop to get the water up there but once filled, gravity helps on the downside.
Tell us the pressure and that may change our thoughts.
Al

[rhosk]

Wow, fast responses here :)

Pressure runs at about 16-17 PSI without the panels and 18-19 PSI with the panels. When I port the panels, I do have to restrict the flow on the output a tad (I use washers inside the outlet jets to do this) to add more pressure to purge air (I assume at the top of the panels). But this is what sends it from 18 to 19 PSI. I have a ball valve; I just haven't installed it yet.

Not a significant difference as you can see. And I can get the 1 HP pump for the same price as the 3/4 HP at Amazon (The 1 HP being free shipping), so I figured I might as well get the 1 HP - only if it would help. I'd like to save electricity too!

What do you think?

[mas985]

I wouldn't go any higher than a 3/4 HP. In fact, I am running a 1/2 HP (full rate) pump with solar and a 25' roof without any problem. The panels prime fine in less than about a minuite.

Also, I am surprised you need to restrict the returns at all. You shouldn't need to do that with only a 25' rise. Again, I am able to prime my panels with about 15 PSI. Have you tried it without the restriction?

[rhosk]

I wouldn't go any higher than a 3/4 HP. In fact, I am running a 1/2 HP (full rate) pump with solar and a 25' roof without any problem. The panels prime fine in less than about a minuite.
You've convinced me, thanks.

Also, I am surprised you need to restrict the returns at all. You shouldn't need to do that with only a 25' rise. Again, I am able to prime my panels with about 15 PSI. Have you tried it without the restriction?

If I run it without the restriction, it bubble-burps every several seconds or so. Not a major problem, but it does cease when I restrict it :confused:

Regarding the electrical... has anyone purchased a new pump recently? Will I just be able to remove my current cord and install/wire it on the new pump? Or have things changed in that arena?

[mas985]

Do you currently have the SP2605X7 pump (uprated 3/4 HP)? If so, that pump actually has a lower head curve than my 1/2 HP pump which might explain why you have having some trouble with priming. What is the filter pressure when you don't have the extra restriction?

[rhosk]

Hi Mark,

No trouble with priming, just the air. The pump model number is SP1605 Z1...

Without the washers in the outlets, I get about 17 PSI or so. It's not much of a difference at all with/without restriction, but it does get rid of the air when I increase the pressure slightly.

[waste]

Ron, I'll gladly leave pump size and flow issues to experts like Mark and Al (if I know a little about what they're talking about, it's only from reading their threads :cool:)

However, it's easy, usually, to see if the shaft seal has failed, all you need do is look for a drip at the motor/ housing interface when the pump is running (a puddle coming from under said interface is a good indication as well) ;)

Good luck with keeping the motor running another 15 years. :)

[mas985]

Hi Mark,

No trouble with priming, just the air. The pump model number is SP1605 Z1...

Without the washers in the outlets, I get about 17 PSI or so. It's not much of a difference at all with/without restriction, but it does get rid of the air when I increase the pressure slightly.

That is actually the motor number but it is the motor for the SP2605X7 model pump which is a 3/4 HP uprated pump. The SP2607x10, an uprated 1 HP, is actaully closer to the 1/2 HP pump that I have in terms of performance (not all pumps are created equal).

What may be happening is that the pressure at the vacuum release is not high enough to completely close off thereby allowing air into the panels. So the panels go through a cycle of air and purge which is why you see bubbles come out periodically. So the issue could be with the valve itself.

However, 17 PSI should be more than enough pressure to close the VRV and prime the panels unless there is a lot of head loss between the filter and VRV. What size pipe do you have going to the panels? Where is the VRV located? Sometimes you can move the valve to the supply side of the panels so it closes off easier.

[rhosk]

Hm, this thread has strayed off topic, but as usual, I'm learning more and more!

However, 17 PSI should be more than enough pressure to close the VRV and prime the panels unless there is a lot of head loss between the filter and VRV. What size pipe do you have going to the panels? Where is the VRV located?

I have about 40 feet of (2") PVC level ground, then the 25' rise to the panels, then the same returns. The VRV is at the top most position of the panels.


Sometimes you can move the valve to the supply side of the panels so it closes off easier.
This sounds interesting. I may have to try this.

[mas985]

My main point in addressing the pressure issue is that you would be better off energy wise with the 3/4 HP pump as long as you can get it to work properly. If you can move the VRV, you may not need to have the washers in the return in order to use a 3/4 HP. This will also improve the efficiency of the setup.

The VRV can be installed almost anywhere down to a few feet above the pad but on the supply side only. Some installers will put it a few feet above the pad so it is easily accessable for replacement. This works well for two speed pumps on low speed but is not recommended for very hot climates where the water can sit in the panels and heat up enough to soften PVC.

[rhosk]

However, it's easy, usually, to see if the shaft seal has failed, all you need do is look for a drip at the motor/ housing interface when the pump is running (a puddle coming from under said interface is a good indication as well) ;)
Nope, no leaks around the pump.



The VRV can be installed almost anywhere down to a few feet above the pad but on the supply side only.

Here's a depiction of my setup (VRV at the top left):

http://s92220213.onlinehome.us/personal/Image1.jpg

Do you think if I put the VRV at the bottom right of the panels it may take care of the air issue?

[mas985]

It looks like you only need about 2 PSI more to close the valve so given the height difference and the fact that you are not going through the panels, there is a good chance that it may work.

If the VRV is the kind that fits in the end of the panel header, then it would be simple to check.

[rhosk]

Thanks. I'm certainly going to give it a shot!

[bobjersey]

And the pump description says it "must be hard wired". My current pump simply plugs into a GFCI standard 115VAC receptacle and is controlled by a switch above. Hopefully "must be hard wired" means I have to manually add the power cord? Or does it mean it must be hard wired to the circuit (w/o the receptacle)? Obviously, the receptacle's convenient as I store the pump away for winter.

I also have my Super Pump wired to a standard 3 prong grounded plug. My pump DID NOT come this way, I had to take it to a motor repair shop to have it done when the electric in my yard stopped working. My understanding is that Super Pumps always come WITHOUT the three prong grounded plug, so you may have to go to a shop to have this added.