Small Pool, Cloudy Water

[mikemerritt]

Hello Pool Forum,

Super glad to have found this lifeline to my pool problems. This question I am sure is answered somewhere in this forum but time will not allow me to research.

The pool is 1000 gallons, above ground, vinyl with the small D size filter canister pump. I am using test strips (and the whole forum groans and rolls their eyes) and according to them the chemistry is fairly close. The first couple of weeks the water was crystal clear with only slightly low PH and free chlorine between 1 & 2 PPM and total chlorine at the low end of OK on the strip. I missed a day or so of checking on the pool and it bloomed green. I read up and dealt with the bloom. Here is my problem, I can't seem to get back to clear water. I'm using new filters every day or so and washing them every few hours. They are filtering and slowing the flow of water until cleaned. My guess is I don't have enough filter capacity. Are there any tricks to help this situation and if not what would the best filter be for this pool. I see there are many different styles of filter and really would not like to spend 200.00 + if I can help it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

MikeMerritt

[Watermom]

Hi, Mike, and welcome!

Just to clarify -- is this a 1000 gallon pool or a 10,000 gallon pool?

We actually need some numbers to be able to help. You have already figured out that we don't trust test strips. Can you at the very least pick up a 5-Way kit from Walmart (drops-based) and use that? (I think they are approximately $15.) Also, tell us exactly what all you have put in the pool -- ingredients, not just "shock." Then somebody here can take a look and help you get this cleared up.

[mikemerritt]

Thanks for the reply Watermom,

The pool is just 1000 gallons. Its not much larger than a good hot tub and is mostly for a 5 year old. The pool was filled with treated city water and all that has been added to the pool is 2 lbs. of 15% multifunctional shock as needed over 3 weeks. That powder was bought by a newbie desperate to do something on a Sunday afternoon to make the water safe for the kid. You see, we live in the deep south and its like a pressure cooker here...Monday showed a heat index of 110 and 99 actual degrees.

I looked at Wal Mart last night and all they had for testing was 2 refill bottles for some sort of kit. No full kits and it seems no place for them on the shelves. I suppose I need to know the best place to get the Taylor or whatever kit you folks like so well.

I have been out of the powder mentioned above since Sunday afternoon and risked waiting until Monday evening after work to add bleach which I have gone to after reading here. I waited until this morning (Tuesday) to look at the pool and .......you got it.....GREEN. I nailed it with bleach even though I haven't had the time to do the math on how much to add. I put 1/2 gallon of 3% in. I never thought missing a day could matter but both times I bloomed a nice crop of algae.

I'll get the proper test kit and will do whatever we can until the numbers are available. This little pool will be crystal clear yet.

Thanks a million,
Mike

[Watermom]

Uhhh --- my guess is that your pool is now clear?? In your small pool, 1/2 gallon of 3% bleach is gonna take the chlorine level to 15ppm!

Can you please tell us ingredients of 15% multifunctional shock?

The best price anyone has found so far (to my knowledge) for the Taylor 2006 is at this place:

http://www.amatoind.com/taylor-k2006-test-p-555.html

BTW -- in 1000 gallons, 1/2 cup of 3% bleach will raise your cl by 1ppm and 1/4 cup of 6% bleach will do the same. As soon as the pool is clear, you should try and keep your cl between 2-5 all the time right now because I doubt you have any cya in there. In your hot pool, algae's gonna want to grow fast. You'll probably need to add bleach morning and evening until you get some cya in there.

Repost with ingredients and we'll go from there.

EDIT -- Does your pool have a skimmer basket? You may want to try some skimmer socks to help filter out a lot of the stuff which is most likely dead algae. That could help with the cartridge clogging problem.

[mikemerritt]

Yeah.....not green anymore! Its back to the milky white that I posted about at the start of this thread.

The shock is sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione 15%. Other 85%.

I ordered the kit. Could you point me to the skimmer sock setup? This pool has no skimmer. I vacuum with the SIMPLE 15.00 water hose rig and a pool net.

I'll have a real pool someday!

Mike

[Watermom]

Skimmer socks won't work if you don't have a skimmer. Basically a skimmer sock is a little sock that you wrap around the skimmer basket to help catch little stuff. If you have no skimmer, no need for skimmer socks.

You know what? I think if this was my pool that only held 1000 gallons, I'd just dump the water and start over. You are going to really struggle to clear it I think with no skimmer and most likely an inadequate cartridge filtration. Dead algae is most likely not going to be caught in that vac net thing.

Now that you know how fast an algae bloom is gonna start in your hot climate, just be diligent about chlorination so one can't get started. You've ordered the good kit which will hopefully arrive quickly and we can help you tweak things once you can test.

That is my opinion. What do you think?

[mikemerritt]

I have no problem with starting over with this pool. I will have the new kit and we will try to keep the water clear. We will step up to a 5000 gallon or so pool no later than next spring & I see that I will be able to learn what I need to know here.

Thank you so much for taking time to help me.

[Watermom]

You are very welcome, Mike. Let us know when you refill and get some good testing numbers. We'll help you get all your levels balanced. In this case, refilling and starting again are a good decision.

[drako4]

Hi,

I am also in the process of setting up a 1700+ gallon 12 x30 Intex pool for my kids.. It also has no skimmer. Once I fill the pool am I going to be at a disadvantage as far as maintaining the pool as a result of this. Have a 530 gal/hr pump and cartridge. Hopefully this does an adequate job????
I am not really in favor of paying the $170 for the Taylor test kit up here in Canada. Only reason being, the kit is more than the whole set up. Can anyone recommend another way or test kit that may be cheaper and do close to the same thing as the Taylor... Maybe I am dreaming!
I had no idea this whole pool thing was going to be such a hair puller!

Cheers,
Carrie:)

[sturev]

Hi Carrie, in your other post there were some alternate kits mentioned, did you check on those? I wish there was something we could do to get you the good kit at the USA cost... :mad: How far from the boarder are you? :rolleyes: Do you have any friends/family in the USA?

The Intex pools are notorious for not having adequate filters/pumps, but since it's a pool that will only last a few years it's probably going to get you by... You'll just need to NEVER let it get fouled up as there will be no way for you to quickly clean it up with that setup. That's one of the main drivers for you getting a good test kit! You could easily end up spending a lot more than the kit cost trying to fix an issue if you get algae or something else.

[aylad]

Hi Carrie, please keep all the info regarding this problem within your other thread--when people post the same question in multiple places it makes it hard for the people trying to help, and makes it kind of tough for us to keep the forum organized.

Thanks!!!

Jan

[mikemerritt]

Ok, this is where I am on this little pool. After the super dose of bleach the other day the pool was perfectly clear the next morning. What I do have a problem with to some degree is the what I assume is dead algae. Without a proper vacuum I think I am stuck with a little of the debris from the algae bloom. If I keep it stirred and the filter clean it gets maybe 3/4 of it but never all. Probably should have changed the water as Watermom suggested and may yet.

The main reason I am in here tonight is for help with the Taylor 2006 kit. There is a link below to a copy of the instructions. In Step 1 there is a reference to using one of two amounts of water for the test. This confuses me. The next thing is in Step 4 in particular the line.... Multiply drops in Step 3 by drop equivalence (Step 1). I also have the same basic question about Step 7....Multiply drops in Step 6 by drop equivalence (Step 1). I think I understand the rest on the chlorine test. I haven't even ventured into the other tests yet.

http://www.taylortechnologies.com/products_instructions.asp?Type=Number&Number=5138

This is going along fairly well and would like to thank Watermom and the rest of the forum for helping me.

Mike

[Watermom]

What they mean on the chlorine test is that you can either run the test on a 10ml or a 25ml water sample. After you put in the R-0870 powder, you then add the R-0871 drops one at a time and swirl after each drop. Count how many drops you have to add to turn it clear. If you used a 10ml water sample, then you mulitiply the number of drops x 0.5. With a 25ml water sample, multiply the number of drops x 0.2. This will be your FC reading.

On the next part of the test (finding CC) again, you count drops and if you used the 10ml sample, multiply the numbers of drops x 0.5 and for the 25ml sample, it would be number of drops x 0.2.

Hope this helps.

[sturev]

Mike, if you test with the 10ml sample, you'll use less of your reagents. BUT, by doing so, you'll only be able to test at .5 ppm resoultion (.2 is more 'accurate' than .5). That being said, .5 is fine IMHO.

PS, when you put the powder in, if it turns pink with one scoop that's all you need to use (save the other scoop for your next test :))

[dhanger]

PS, when you put the powder in, if it turns pink with one scoop that's all you need to use (save the other scoop for your next test

If that's really so, that would save a lot on the powder. When I first started using the kit about two weeks ago, I looked on Taylor's website, and they have instructional videos for testing. With the FAS-DPD test, the demonstrator showed that he was putting in two overflowing scoops, in fact it ran way up the handle, and they said that it didn't matter if they were larger, but they said nothing about being smaller. It made me scratch my head watching that, because what's the difference between two level scoops and one overflowing?? So I've been doing two level carefully to conserve, but if one level works, that's even better.

Dan

[sturev]

It my understanding that as long as it turns bright red/pink, you're set. I also take into account that they say if you add 2 and it's still clear (when testing super high levels), that you just need to add another scoop until it turns red. I think I read in another post about this; that's where I first got it. I'm sure if it's not right, one of the mods or chem geek will let us know :)

[Watermom]

If one scoop turns it pink, you don't need to put in another scoop. Save the powder. Also, just FYI, sometimes when you swirl the tube after putting in the powder, there may be a few small clumps that don't dissolve all the way. If that happens, it is not a problem.

[mikemerritt]

Watermom got me straight on the directions and someone else explained why there are two amounts of water referenced. I worked with the kit using a 10ml sample the first time. The FC came in at .5 so I did it again using the 25ml thinking it may be more accurate at those low levels. I'm glad I did because the FC came up somewhat higher meaning I think my first time may have been less than accurate. As a curiosity I am posting my most accurate test strip results taken at the same time I used the kit.

Strip
FC .7

PH 7.4

TA 90

Taylor kit
FC 1.6

PH 7.2

TA 100

CA 27

On the CA test the first time the black dot never completely disappeared.

The second time the tube was so full that another drop would have run off the side but I think that is the point the dot disappeared. That is off the top of the scale so my best estimate is the 27 number. I forgot to get CC levels both times I tested.

The water is almost clear but not sparkling like my neighbors pool. I add about 6 ounces of 6% bleach once a day and that must be enough to stop algae. At this time I really don't have problem I can't live with but some comments would be great.

Mike

[Watermom]

We really need to see a CC reading. That is an important reading because it kind of acts as an alert when there is something going on with your water even before you can see a problem. Repost with that reading.

6 oz. would take your cl level to around 3ppm which is ok for such a low cya pool. Are you ever going to 0 chlorine level during the day? If you do, you may have some CC which could account for the cloudy pool.

TA and pH look ok but just keep an eye on the pH and make sure it doesn't go any lower. If it does, you'll want to add a little Borax to bump it back up.

[mja351]

a knee highstocking works as well as a skimmer sock just let it dry after use and brush the dirt off and re use next time

[mikemerritt]

The stocking may work , thanks.

"Are you ever going to 0 chlorine level during the day?"

I don't think it ever goes to 0.

Here are the latest tests.

PH 7.2

FC 2.4

CC .6

TA 100

CYA 27


EDIT by Watermom: Cyanuric Acid is CYA not listed as CA. Need to be consistent so your readings will be clear to other readers who are trying to help. CA could be confused as meaning calcium. So, the reason I edited, was to change it to CYA.

[Watermom]

Thanks for posting the CC reading. Go ahead and shock the pool again up to 15. Test several times today and each time, take the cl back up to 15. We'll see how the numbers look tonight. Also, keep the pump/filter running and watch your filter pressure. When it increases by 8-10psi over normal clean pressure, backwash. Hope this helps.

[mikemerritt]

Update on this little pool. I managed to get the water crystal clear without changing the water. I didn't change the water so I could learn how to deal with it. I'll have a larger pool next spring and changing the water would be expensive.

As I said earlier the problem was dead algae settling in the bottom and no way to get t all out. I replaced the bag on the little cheap vacuum with a hose and ran the hose out to the ground. Now when the stuff has settled the vacuum picks it up and takes it out of the pool. I find the filter to be OK because I think it gets all the tiny stuff. It won't act as a skimmer or get the small stuff that settles but once everything is under control the little filter does a great job.

Now I would like input on nut grass that grows right through the bottom of the pool. I have only had one get through but I easily could have had a crop of it. I also have crepe myrtle and some kind of small apple tree that is subject to put up a sucker off of a root at any time.

The other thing is the incredible heat we have around here. It gets to around 100 everyday with an index of 110. The water is so warm you don't want to get in it. I was thinking of trying a silver colored tarp to reflect the heat back.

I use about 6 ozs. of 6% bleach every other day. I have been cutting it down every day to see just how little I can get by with. This is where the test strips really have a purpose. They are cheap, fast and accurate enough for this.

I will do a Taylor kit test now that all is well and post the numbers.

Thanks for all the help. If any of you ever search the internet for help with painting, wallpaper or small engines you will probably run into me and we will get you going in the right direction.


MikeMerritt

[aylad]

Congratulations on getting your water back to clear--great job!

I wish I could help you with the nut grass, and if you find a solution that works, by all means post it here. I have an 1100 gallon koi pond next to my pool and am forever spraying the nut grass that grows up through the rocks around it. When they installed the pond they put down a very thick (1/8" or so) black matting under the liner, and so far the stuff hasn't grown through it, but it grows around it like crazy. Don't know what to do other than keep spraying it at the surface, but I know that's not doing anything for underneath.

As far as cooling your pool water, you might want to consider a fountain of some sort and running your pump at night. Here in Louisiana we're getting the same temps/heat index you describe, and my pool water currently is at 94 degrees--feels more like a hot tub than a swimming pool. We keep the slide running during the day while the kids are in the pool, so it's getting cold water refilled from the house and it does a fair job of dropping the temp a little, but aerating the water at night will help cool it off a little, as well (watch your pH, though, because it will rise due to the aeration).

Janet