same old dirt

[mja351]

alright i hope everyone is well....here's my dilemma i have a 12 foot round above ground pool. its small but its our little oasis in the heart of the big apple.i have a hayward easy clear 40 sq ft cartridge filter with a 1 hp pump.i installed a brand new cartridge this season and the pool water is very nice just wish the weather would start cooperating here.i have some dirt on the bottom on the pool that i cant seem to get rid of.its like a very fine powdery type of dirt u sweep it with your hand and its just blows away.well i vacuum this dirt up shut my filter and take a nice swim the bottom is beautiful and clean.i get out of the pool turn on the filter and a half hour later that same dirt is back on the bottom .this has been ongoing for a year now and i have even vacuumed taken the filter apart washed everything put it back together and yet that same dirt is back in the pool a half hour later. WHAT GIVES?????

[aylad]

If you'll post a complete set of water levels using a drop-based kit, including Free chlorine, combined or total chlorine, pH, Alk, CYA, it will help us rule out some sort of algae, but the more logical explanation is pollen and everyday dirt that gets into the water and just settles to the bottom of the pool.

How does your water look?
Janet

[mja351]

the water is crystal clear cl 3 ph 7.4 alk 80 cya 20 how can everyday pollen and dirt gather so quickly there isnt a tree insight did u read the question correctly janet?

[aylad]

Yes, I read the question correctly. You asked for an answer, and I gave you an educated guess with the information that I had about your pool.

I know that it can gather so quickly because it does in my pool, as well as many others. When you vacuum the stuff up, chances are good that some of it dissolves into the water instead of escaping through the vacuum.....but if you don't have a sand filter, and aren't introducing sand, then chances are good that it's either airborne stuff settling out, or some sort of algae. If your CYA is 20, and you consistently keep your chlorine above 3, then it shouldn't be algae if your water is clear. Do you have any combined chlorine? Do you have overnight chlorine loss? If the answer to both questions is no, and you aren't introducing sand/dirt into the pool, then it's just everyday stuff settling out of the water. Vacuum it up, or stir it up into the water so that your filter can get it.

Janet

[Watermom]

I think dirt on the bottom of a pool is typical of everybody's pool. I can vacuum my pool one evening and by the next day, there is already a little dirt/dust on the bottom again. Of course, as soon as we are in the pool moving around, the dirt gets into the water suspension and you don't see it. Later, when the pool settles down after we are done swimming, it will resettle. Especially in the "tape lines" underneath my liner where the underneath foam padding is taped together. No matter how clean I seem to get it when I vacuum, the next day there is always a little on the pool floor. I have a feeling that is what is happening with your pool as well. BTW -- Welcome to the forum!

[mja351]

i appreciate both of your answers but to me it seems its the same dirt im vacuuming up coming right back in the pool i was wondering if there is something wrong with my filter or maybe my pump is too strong for the filter and causing blow by with the smaller particles i thought someone might have had this similar problem.for there to be the same amount of dirt on the bottom a half hour after vacuuming it clean seems fishy thats all

[Watermom]

Your pump is overkill for such a small pool but I am not knowledgeable about your type of filter so I can't comment on whether it is a mismatch between the two or not. Maybe someone else is familiar with this type of filter and can comment on that.

[Searcher]

As mentioned; your pump is way over sized for your application. If it is 220 volt, look for a dual speed motor that runs at 1 horse and 1/6th horse. You should never use the high setting. Be sure you get the correct "Frame" for your application. If your pump is 120 volt, look for a third horse motor or smaller or figure out a way to run 220 out to the pool.

I did not recall seeing if you cleaned the cartridge after a vacuum to see how much of your particulate matter was picked up. With that, as with a sand filter, too much flow could blow debris right back into the pool.

Could the pump be blowing by the filter? Heck, that pump could be blowing your filter to shreds.

And finally, your cartridge may have holes that are not obvious unless there is a close inspection.

As for the overnight dust; very viable and very common no matter where one lives. My pool is in the woods in Central NC and my brother has the same inground pool setup in Whitehall, PA. I actually have much less dirt on the bottom than he but more plant debris and bugs. One benefit I have with my dual speed is that I run it 24/7 all year round on low and only use high to backwash or vacuum to a 200 pound sand filter. The only problem I have seen with this method is a new seal every three years which is a piece of cake to change with my Hayward Super Pump. Well that and no open/close seasons for me either. :)

Good luck and let us know how you fare with this.

[CarlD]

You live in the NYC and wonder about stuff falling in your pool???? Hey! I was just in a shop off Madison Ave yesterday and the owner's been worried about BRICKS falling through his roof from a 17 story chimney next door that collapsed! (took out half his shop, too!). Now THAT is falling stuff! :eek:

Look, we mods aren't perfect but we've helped lots and lots of people. Janet wanted to ascertain if there was something going on in your water you weren't aware of but instead you assumed she hadn't read it. Not nice....So let's lose the NY 'tude, and start again, OK? It's also our SOP to get a baseline before we can assess.

You've gotten some excellent advice. We are all 99.99% sure your pump is total overkill--and the source of your problem. When it comes to pumps and filters, a filter's capacity must ALWAYS exceed the pump's output or it won't work well or even damage your filter.

With that tiny a pool (nothing wrong with tiny) I would strongly recommend that you go no higher than a 1/2 hp pump MAX--1/3 would be better. I'm guessing you don't have a 220v feed for the pump, but if you do, a small 220 pump might run cooler. Any pump in that size range working correctly with your filter will turn over your water in just a few hours, too. Personally, I think a 1 hp 2spd, 220 pump, while a GREAT pump, (I have one for 20,000 gal) is a waste of money if you will only use it on low speed--and you cannot use it on high with a 12' pool. I would just go for a smaller pump.

Plus, you have Con Ed, reputed to be the most expensive electric in the nation--so savings there should be significant (grew up with Con Ed--Never believed "Con" stood for "Consolidated") No matter.

I'd bet dollars to bagels you'll need a new cartridge AFTER you replace the pump because it's filter paper has probably been damaged. I'm guessing a cart is preferable because of the tight space meaning there's no good way to backwash.

Consider what we've said.

BTW, size of pool is only relevant to us with regard to equipment and chemicals. It's just sizes and amounts--nothing but numbers. I've always said that on a hot day, sitting in a floating lounge, with a cool drink, listening to your favorite music or a Mets/Yankees game (best is an interleague game), you won't care if it's 3000 gallons or 30,000 gallons! :D

I'm just across the river in New Jersey so I'm familiar with the area and the issues here.

[mja351]

i dont have 220v in the yard and between the central ac and the pool my con ed bill is 320 and thats for may, june july and august are coming , lol and thankfully no bricks falling here
thanks for help. one more question though how long to run this oversized pump for this tiny pool?

[CarlD]

I don't know. but if you know the GPM of the pump you can get a rough estimate. I'm guessing you have around 3,300 gallons (assuming 4' deep).

With that, and, for example Hayward's SMALLEST above ground pump (1/2 hp--120volt) you could turn over your pool in as little as 1 hour! Worst case scenario it could take 3 1/2 hours. Considering turnover in a large of 8 hours is consider normal, that's pretty darn good.

So that's where you can start.

[PBLsQuad450]

Hey MJA,
I am also a local. About 10 miles as the crow flies across the bay in NJ. I run a 1hp pump on a 33,000 gallon IG pool. Just replaced my 11 year old Hayward pump motor. That job was hot and heavy, literally. Anyway, you could be pulling it in and blowing it through, over and over. Wait 'till you deal with dead algae with a sand filter. PITA! Easy enough to fix though. Just vac to waste next time. Even with only a few minutes you will be able to get the dirt out and skip the filter altogether. If it re-apears, it is not a pump motor filter ratio issue it is just a "this is what is in the air here" issue. I get that a lot early season and dry weather. Later, for no explainable reason it stops? But the other stuff starts up, helicopters, Wisteria pods, you name it. The folks here are a resource you should appreciate completely, and I do not over-state this. Been care-taker of a pool, on and off for a combined 3 decades. Until PF I still thought pool stores had a use other than parts.

[polyvue]

The advice provided regarding pump size for your ~3400 gallon pool is very good. I would also like to suggest that a 40 sq ft cartridge filter is somewhat small -- not unusual when purchasing standard equipment for a small above-ground pool. If you have opportunity and desire to upgrade your cartridge filter, look for one that is in the neighborhood of 100 sq ft; that's a better match for your gallons/area and you'll find that you don't have to clean it as often. Of course, just replacing the filter media (cartridge) may help with your problem.