Ordered My Pool

[dcombs44]

Well, I ordered my pool today as well as a K2006 test kit.

We'll start working on the preparing the site this week.

For $1999, I got the following:

1) 24' x 52" Doughboy/Embassy Above Ground Pool
2) Heavy Duty Solid Blue Doughboy Liner
3) "Premium" Doughboy Pool Skimmer
4) 1 HP UL Pump
5) 16" Valueline Sand Filter (Undersized I know, but couldn't talk any shop into an upgrade. Have to make due for the time being)
6) All hoses and hardware
7) Ladder
8) Starter Chemicals (Not sure what's included. I'll use what I can and go BBB from there)
9) Maintenance Kit (Probably cheap, but it's a start. Should include, skimmer net, vacuum, pole, brushes, etc.)
10) Pool cover

Like I said, the filter is probably undersized, but I'll hope that it will do the job until we can afford to upgrade down the road.

I'll be testing the source water when the test kit get here and post results here. I'll probably need some help after that. :)

Excited, but nervous. Lots of work to do.

[aylad]

Yay! Welcome to pool ownership!! We'll be around if you need help with it...

Janet

[dcombs44]

Thanks. This all started with my wife wanting a $300 Intex pool from Wal-Mart. Then my OCD kicked in, and I started reading and reading. Now.........we'll have almost 15,000 gallons of water in the back yard.

I am glad I found this site though. Looking forward to learning more.

Thanks again.

[Watermom]

I'm concerned that your pump is gonna be too powerful for your filter. In the case of pool pumps, bigger is NOT always better and if your pump is too big for your filter, it can damage it. I also have a 24ft AG and when I replaced my pump a few years ago, I switched from a 1hp to a 1/2 hp and it does fine. I also have a 200# sand filter. How does that compare to the size of your filter?

Regarding chemicals, it is probably a good idea for you to test the water once you get this thing up and running and post results here before deciding which of those startup chemicals to add. Pool stores are notorious for giving you stuff to put in your water that you don't need.

Welcome to the forum. We are glad you found us. And, oh, by the way, I can totally relate to a $300 dollar project turning into a $2000 project ............ :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[kc571]

Am I allowed to ask where you got it from? And if you're planning on installing it yourself?

TIA

[dcombs44]

Thanks for the advice Watermom.

I read many of the suggestions on here prior to making a selection. I even inquired at the pool store about downgrading the pump.

I really questioned hard about the pump/filter size, and couldn't get the pool guy to move any. I told him I'd swap a smaller pump for a larger filter, but he "assured" me that this pool needs a 1 HP pump......I wasn't sure how to argue that.

Doughboy sells this set as a package (not that that means anything). I haven't pulled the final trigger on the order, but I did put the call in to get it ready to go.

I'm not sure what to do really. The cost of the pool is already way more than we'd planned to spend. I'm not sure if I should scrap the order and try to get a pool by itself and buy the filtration separately or what.

Suggestions on arguing with a pool guy and still getting a fair price? He was wanting to jack the price up to make changes.

[dcombs44]

I got the pool from a local shop in Southern Illinois. If it's not breaking any forum rules, I'd be glad to tell you where I got it, but you should be able to get it from pretty much any Doughboy dealer as it's advertised on the Doughboy website.

[dcombs44]

Also, I believe the 16" filter is a 100 lbs filter, but I'm not positive.

Also, I was planning on screening the chemicals here as I know they can have additional and unneeded affects. Like I said, I'm not sure what I'm even getting yet, so we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

......and yes, I already ordered my K-2006 kit, so I'll test my source water when it comes in. I had planned on using the pool calculator as a guide when initially getting my levels up to snuff.

I'm worried. Should I not go through with this?

[Poconos]

At this point you have to weigh the cost of just getting the pool and buying the equipment elsewhere, probably online, or getting the package. Not knowing for sure but you have a point that they sell it as a package and it will probably work OK. The danger of an oversized pump for the filter is too much flow through the filter and you blow crud right through. Your electric costs will be higher too.

As for forum rules? You're not bashing anyone so I see nothing wrong with mentioning names. That's my opinion.

Al

[dcombs44]

Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to try my luck with one more shop today.

My fear is that if the pump is too powerful that the shop owner will blame any problems on me and not the mismatch of the equipment. He made the statements that a 24' pool NEEDS a 1 HP pump and anything less won't suffice (which I didn't buy), and he told me that anything bigger than an 18" filter is too big (which makes no sense). It does; however, make me think that he's more ignorant than money motivated because he hasn't tried to get me to upgrade anything. He just keeps saying that he is positive that this combination will work.......probably because he knows that my problems will lead to lots and lots of chemical sales (which he's also wrong about).

Tough call. I'll probably keep searching for a few days before making a decision.

Also, according to the doughboy site and some other stores, the package only contains the pool, filter, pump and liner. The dealer I'm working with included chemicals, ladder, and maintenance kit at no extra charge.

Name of store is Paradise Pools and Spas in Du Quoin, IL

[dcombs44]

Well, I got another company to offer an 18" filter for the same price at the other company's 16". Progress, but not much.

The initial bid on this pool was about $2900, but they said they'd beat the other quote if I could in fact provide them with a quote.

This pool is a Swim n' Play Infinity with a Sta-Rite Filter and Pump Combo. Will also include skimmer, ladder, maintenance kit, cover, etc. if I can come up with a detailed quote.

Coming up with a good excuse for a quote will be the hard part.

[Watermom]

How about that your spouse wants to see everything in writing before agreeing to a purchase? Would that fly?

[dcombs44]

That's a good idea.

I ended up hiring a friend to make an inquiry and ask for a detailed quote on a pool. She's going to try and get a quote faxed to her for my benefit.

I know, pretty conniving. haha.

[sturev]

I found it way cheaper to buy items from online stores that had the best overall price/service (S&H/Tax included), and NOT buy the 'packages'! BUT, I'm the type that is fairly mechanical and had to deal/troubleshoot all the issues surrounding equipment from different manufactures... :( I saved cash, but spent time (but I sure learned alot about the inner workings of my pool and I'm sure that will pay off in the long run). I would seriously consider matching your equipment based on the knowledge base here instead of buying some marketing departments recomendation... BUT then again, I'm a newbie and I'm living in the ignorance is bliss mode :)

[dcombs44]

Would you mind to let in on what stores you bought from.

I've tried piecing together some things online, but always come out way over what I'm being quoted.

Thanks!

[sturev]

I found my heater for about $500 cheaper than my 'local' dealer on Amazon (sold by Amazon), and also ended up getting my pump from them too (saved about $50 from any other online place). I usually just google/bing the item I'm looking for and spend about 30 min's price shopping (have to go thru the hoops on each site to determine what shipping is and if they collect tax (to get the 'real' price)). I've also bought from Amato, In the Swim, PoolCenter.com...

[dcombs44]

Well, I ended up ordering the "package" from the local shop. I'd priced around and pieced things out separately, and this is about as good as I could do at the moment.

I got my "starter chemicals"

1 bottle of 10% algaecide - Not polyquat (won't be using this)
2 bags of shock - Cal Hypo (May use this)
3 Trichlor sticks - May use these until CYA is where it needs to be
1 Bottle Concentrated Clarifier (Won't use)
1 Box Test Strips (Won't Use)

They forgot the stabilizer. The only thing I really wanted, I didn't get......and they forgot a box when they loaded my truck.

I'll be going back to the pool shop tomorrow......

Also, the instructions for the chemicals stated in bold that my pool may need to have metals added to the water :).

Funny how all I've read here has hit the nail directly on the head. :)

[Watermom]

Ok, Darren. Now to be patient and wait for that pool to arrive!

Sounds like you have been doing a bunch of reading on this forum and will be prepared to take care of your pool when it gets set up. Keep reading and learning in the meantime. Let us know when the pool is here and if you have any questions. We'll be here and glad to help!

Metals added to the pool??? Uhhhhh ....... I don't think so!

[aylad]

Metals added to the pool??? Uhhhhh ....... I don't think so!

Me neither!!!!!

Might want to see if they'll trade the test strips, clarifier and algaecide for something useful, like liquid chlorine or skimmer socks!!

It's going to be SSOOO nice for you once you get your pool filled and started up the right way, to not have to deal with many of the problems that you see posted around here!!! All the time and effort that you've spent reading this forum and learning the information will really pay off...........


Janet

[dcombs44]

I hope so!

Believe it or not, they actually had the pool in stock, so I took it home that day.

I'm just waiting now for a guy to come clear the sod and deliver our sand (masonry). We had a guy offer to clear the sod, deliver the sand, hall the sod away, and spread the sand for a couple hundred dollars, so we took the deal since it was almost that much for us to rent a bobcat.

So, the pool is waiting patiently in the garage. We've had all the utilities flagged, so we're set to dig.

I was reading the ingredients on the bags of shock and it appears that they have some descaling agents and clarifiers in them as well as the cal-hypo. I was going to use these up, but should I avoid these since they have the added "benefits"?

My stabilizer is 100% cyanuric acid, so I'm safe there. The Trichlor tabs should be ok to use as well until CYA is where it needs to be.

Thanks again for your help guys.

[Watermom]

Personally, I wouldn't use the shock with the extra stuff in it. Just my $.02. It is OK to use the trichlor as long, as you noted, that you monitor your CYA level. Also, remember that trichlor is very acidic and will drop your pH level a lot so you'll have to monitor that closely as well. What is your prediction for when the pool will be up and running? I hope not too far away so you'll get lots of time to use it this summer.

[sturev]

I don't have any experience with this, but it's my understanding you don't want to let the Cal Hypo & Trichlor mix... something about explosions :eek:

I'm hoping one of the mods will hop on this and give you some more insight...

[dcombs44]

Very interesting on the explosions.

All of the products are bio-guard products. I browsed the store searching for liquid chlorine the other day but didn't see any, so I'll have to ask next time I'm in. I found some at Target the other day, but it was only 10% at $5 for 3/4 gallon. That's more expensive than 2 gallons of 6% bleach, so for the time being, I'll chlorinate with Wal-Mart bleach.

The digging should be done this week, so if all goes as planned, we could be close to running by the end of the weekend, but that's probably a stretch. We definitely could've used it this weekend. It was HOT!

I'll keep that in mind with the Trichlor pucks. I've scouted all my local stores for borax and bleach, so I can get those easily enough. I'll search the hardware stores for muriatic acid in the next couple days.

My Taylor kit was backordered but shipped on Friday, so I should get it in the next couple days as well. Once it gets here, I'll test my tap water to see what we'll need to get things adjusted when we fill the pool. I also picked up a Wal-Mart Chlorine/pH/Bromine kit for $5 for daily testing.

I'll probably sort through all the chemicals tonight and detail the ingredients on here to make sure that I'm safe. I may dig through some of the equipment boxes as well to see how some of it works.

Thanks again.

[Watermom]

Right -- you don't want cal-hypo and trichlor to mix, but once they are in the water, it is fine. You can use both products in a pool. Lots of people do. But, in your pool, I would just use bleach and skip the cal-hypo. You don't need the calcium and cal-hypo is slow to dissolve sometimes and can cloud the water. Stick with bleach and you won't have any problems. And, again, it is fine to use the trichlor as long as you monitor cya and pH.

Re: the muriatic acid --- Sure, find out where it is sold in your area but don't buy any yet. You may not need it, especially if you are gonna use the trichlor for awhile. In that case your pH is gonna be falling and you're certainly not gonna need the acid. Many people never need it. I have had my pool for ten years or so and have never once needed it ....... and I don't even use trichlor.

[sturev]

Thanks Watermom! I was reading that thread on the apt complex pool and got scared :eek:

[Watermom]

A healthy dose of fear is not a bad thing when dealing with pool chemicals. Knowledge is power and if you are educated about them and use them correctly, you'll be fine. Sometimes people underestimate the potential of danger from seemingly harmless little pucks and powder. That is what gets you in trouble.

Re: the apt. complex thread --- we were ALL (mods and Ben) getting scared about that one!

[dcombs44]

Test kit came today. Should be able to get my tap water tested tonight or tomorrow. I'll post results and my predictions for what I'll need here. I'll need your help to make sure I'm not making a bad estimate.

Got the "hole" roughly dug yesterday. Plan to spend tomorrow afternoon leveling and cleaning up the mess from the bobcat. Hope to be setting patio blocks by tomorrow evening.

[Watermom]

Hard to wait isn't it? I remember the hard work of getting my pool site ready. Thought we never would get it level! One side would be a little high, so we'd take a little bit off. Then, it would be a little lower than another side and so on............

Wasn't too fun from what I remember, but SO worth it!

[dcombs44]

Tested pH and Alk for grins from my tap water.

pH was pretty much dead on 8.0 (not bad for a fish tank :))

Alk hadn't changed colors at 12 drops, so it's higher than 120. I stopped there. I know I've still got some room here with the vinyl pool.

Looks like I'll be playing a little mad scientist to get things in check.

Once I fill, what's the first thing to get in check?

I guess I should work on adding CYA first since it's acidic right? That should lower pH....

What's the best route here?

[Watermom]

PH and chlorine first. Then you can tweak the other stuff.

[aylad]

I agree with Watermom, pH and chlorine first, but it won't hurt to go ahead and add your CYA, just don't broadcast it like the label says, and if you add it through the skimmer into a sand filter, don't backwash the filter or retest for CYA for at least 4-5 days because it takes a long time for it to dissolve. Until you have CYA in the water, you're gonna have to make frequent chlorine additions because the sun will eat up a lot of your chlorine, so the sooner you can have it in the pool the better.

Janet

[dcombs44]

Thanks!

So, we had the sod removed last week, but I kept getting rained out on days I planned to work on leveling.

Well, we finally got to start yesterday (heat index of 110 degrees). About 4 inches down on the high side was a 4' x 10' slab of 10" thick concrete. Grrrrrr....

Took a big chunk of the afternoon to bust up the concrete and remove it.

Ended up getting a few of the blocks set for the posts using a laser transit level. Had to dig down a fair amount though, so we've got a fair amount of digging and raking left to do.

Back to the grind after work today.

[Watermom]

HARD WORK!!! But, will be SO worth it. Just keep picturing you floating on a raft with a cold drink in your hand!

[dcombs44]

Well, it's been a struggle, but we're almost there.

We started filling the pool last Friday afternoon. I took the day off to finish getting the walls up and the liner in. At about 9:00 pm after 10 hours or so of working on the pool, the liner slipped and couldn't be stretched back over the side. At that time, there was about 1.5 feet of water in the pool. So, we drained, replaced the sand that had washed out, refit the liner, and started refilling on Sunday.

I'm filling with a garden hose, so it's a slow process. Got it filled to just below the return yesterday, so I got the return and skimmer installed, and got the filter completely installed.

Will finish filling tonight, test the pump and add chlorine. This is day 3.5 with no chlorine, so I'm ready to get some sanitizer in there to keep from an early algae bloom. Assuming we finish filling and add chlorine tonight, we should be swimming by tomorrow.

What a process.

[Watermom]

I'd suggest going ahead and getting some chlorine in there now instead of waiting any longer. You are pushing your luck with that long with no chlorine and hot weather. Add some bleach and then take a clean broom or something and stir it around. You don't want to chance a brand new pool with green water and it will happen way faster than you would think. Add a 3-quart jug of bleach. Walk around the perimeter of the pool and reach as far away from the side as you can and drizzle it in slowly and then stir it around.

Also, remember that a pool with no cya in it will lose chlorine fast. So, be prepared to test and add chlorine at least twice a day for the first week or so until you get a cya reading. And, if somebody is home in the afternoon, maybe even test/dose then, too.

[dcombs44]

ok. I'll switch out of the shirt and tie at lunch and add some chlorine. I bought a few jugs of bleach last night as well as some borax and dry acid.

My tap water was testing a bit high initially, so I wanted to be prepared to get it down to where it needs to be. Once the pump is running, I'll get some CYA added.

Am I right that I read to hang a sock in front of the return to add CYA?

[Watermom]

You can either do it that way or you can mix it in a bucket of water and then slowly pour it into the skimmer. (That is the way I add it in my pool.) If you put it in the skimmer, just remember not to backwash your filter for about a week to give it time to dissolve. I also run the pump 24/7 for the first couple of days after I add it.

Also, don't test for it or add any more for about a week to make sure it has time to dissolve.

[dcombs44]

Added a jug of bleach and did a quick test with the wal-mart kit after I stirred it up.

.5 ppm chlorine
7.8 pH

I'll finish filling the pool tonight and run a full battery of tests with the Taylor Kit. The plus side is that our tap water reads .5 ppm of chlorine out of the tap, so as we add water, we're adding a decent amount of chlorine (or so it seems).

Should I try to get the chlorine to shock level off the start, or should I just keep it at recommended levels until CC is over .5 ppm? I was planning on trying to get it between 1 and 3 ppm before bed tonight and checking it again in the morning.

[Watermom]

Since your pool has had water in it for several days now with no real cl level to speak of, I'd probably throw in a 3-qt. jug this evening. Wait a couple of hours and test and see what that does for you. It will probably take you up to about 3.5. Then, I'd suggest testing it early in the morning. If you haven't lost more than 1pm of chlorine overnight, then I'd say you lucked out and despite the delay in chlorinating and filtering, you escaped something starting to grow. If you do lose more than that overnight, I'd shock the pool. Don't want to start off a new pool with icky stuff growing in there! Better take care of it right off the bat.

Keep us posted how it is going. And, have fun swimming this evening. You are gonna swim, right??;);)

(In your pool, each quart of 6% bleach will raise the cl by about 1.2.)

[dcombs44]

Been tinkering all day. Got a few drips in the filter plumbing. I've been adjusting here and there trying to seal them up, but some are stubborn.

Latest Test Results:

FC: .6
CC: 0
pH: 7.4
Alk: 130
CYA: No reading yet.

I added 1.75 lbs (28 oz) of CYA this afternoon. I dissolved most of it in a sock, and the rest, I mixed in a bucket and added to the skimmer. That should get me to about 15 on CYA.

My nephew is in the pool right now. When he gets out, I plan to add 96 oz. of 6% bleach. Should get me to 4 ppm. I'll test before I go to bed and when I get up to see if any chlorine is used up over night. If it is, I'll shock tomorrow evening.

I did find that the local hardware store carries 10% Liquid Chlorinator for $3.99 a gallon.
The way I calculated, that comes out a fair amount cheaper than bleach.

A couple of questions:

1) Should I add more stablizer now? Say another 15 oz. That should get me to somewhere around 23 ppm. Then I could bump it up to 30 or so from there a little at a time. Or......should I leave it as is, test in a week and add more then?

2) I guess I only had one question for now.

[Watermom]

You'll be ok to go ahead and add some more cya now.

[dcombs44]

Added another pound of CYA this morning. Like I said, that should get me up to around 23 or so.

Since the Taylor kit's lowest reading is 30, is there a way to alter the test to know where I am right now? More drops/fewer drops, less test water/more test water?

How do I know that I'm getting close to 30?

Tested FC this morning, and it was still a solid 3 ppm. No FC loss overnight. Water is sparkling, and things are going well so far. (Knock on Wood)

[Poconos]

I don't know about altering the 1:1 ratio but you should be able to judge by how cloudy the sample is getting. The dot doesn't just disappear....it fades away into a blur then to nothing so that should give some idea if you are approaching being on-scale.
Al

[Watermom]

It should take about 3-1/2 lbs. of cya to get to about 30ppm in a 15K pool. There is no kit that I am aware of that can differentiate a reading of less than 30ppm.

[dcombs44]

Just wanted to give a quick update.

Pool water is still sparkling. I'm down to adding about 2.5 quarts of bleach a day. It usually ends the day at about 1.2 to 1.6, and we've been bumping it up to 4.0 ppm. CYA should be nearing 30. I've used 2 trichlor pucks this week to pump it up a bit more. I'll probably test it at the end of this week, backwash, and then add the remaining amount.

However, I'm fairly sure that the pool has a small leak. As I mentioned before, the liner slipped when we were filling, so the sand underneath became quite wet.

Each morning, there is a wet spot around a section of the pool. At first, we had hoped it was just the weight of the pool pushing the water out of the sand underneath, but it's continued for a couple weeks now. I'm not losing much water, because after considering evaporation, there can't be much water. I guess I need to do the bucket test to compare evaporation for a couple days to know for sure. Not sure how we would've gotten a hole in the liner, but I guess it's possible.

Beyond that, we've been enjoying the pool, and it's staying nice and clean and clear. I did manage to swim enough to get swimmer's ear, so that's fun. I'm out of swimming commission for a few days, but I'll be back at it soon enough. :)

Thanks for all your help folks.