The Long Road in Trying to Lower TA

[Hszwill]

Hello,

I have been reading as much as I can on the forum over the past month since we attempted to open our pool. This is our 4th year with a pool, and we started right off on the forum with the BBB method. Unfortunately, by the time we were done building the pool, we didn't have any money for a cover. So every year we have to filter and vacuum like crazy, and combining that with BBB, it usually takes us about 7 days to open the pool. This season has thrown us for a loop, and needless to say, we are frustrated. First, we have had nothing but problems with our Polaris vacuum, so we've had to wait for parts for that, and then when we learned that we needed to aerate to bring the TA down, our deck jets ended up not working and needing new parts as well. All those parts finally came in this week and the Polaris has been running, along with the deck jets, continually for 48 hours.

Here are today's numbers:

FC 11 (4 days ago- 20)
CC 1
TC 12
pH 7.4 (4 days ago- 6.8)
TA 190 (4 days ago- 170)
CH 170 (4 days ago- 120)
CYA 20 (4 days ago- 0)

Out of curiosity, I decided to test my hose tap water today as well:
FC <.5
CC 3.5
TC <4
pH 8.3
TA 100
CH 30


Our frustration has been the relentless cloudy pool. Today makes it 28 days since we opened it, which is 4 times longer than any year prior. Too add to the issue, we started getting scaling on the tile a day ago.

Besides the 5 gallons of 6% bleach that I will add tonight, does anyone have any advice for me?

Thank you!
Shannon

[Watermom]

How often are you testing and adding bleach? If you have a cc of 1, then you are fighting something in the water. Test and dose it back up to shock level as many times a day as you can. There is no such thing as too often. The sustained high cl is what will clear a pool. At least twice a day, 3x is better and more than that is better yet!

By the way, aeration does not get the alk down. It is the muriatic acid which will bring it down along with bringing the pH down. Then, you aerate because that takes the pH back up without raising the alk. Once the pH is back up to around 7.6, you add more acid and repeat the cycle until the alk is where you want it. Do not let the pH drop below 7.0, however.

Also, I don't think your tap water has a CC of 3.5. Try that test again.

Hope this helps.

[polyvue]

Also, I don't think your tap water has a CC of 3.5. Try that test again.
This level does seem unlikely. My tap water (in Sacramento) consistently measures pH 8.0, FC 1.0 and CC <= .2

But I remember that chem geek posted somewhere that his water utility (SF Bay Area) adds ammonia to the water supply (converts to monochloramine) for sanitation. Pretty sure that he also reported the level of CCs but I cannot locate the post. If the test result is repeatable, try contacting your water supplier in N. Virginia for a report.

[chem geek]

The monochloramine level, which shows up as CC, is 1.2 ppm in my tap water. It is possible that a reading of 3.5 is accurate, though that does seem high since usually water districts target 1-2 ppm for the monochloramine level (for those that use monochloramine for a residual in the distribution system; some are still using chlorine which registers as FC).

[Hszwill]

Hello,

Well, it has been 10 days since I posted my original message, and I have been shocking, adding muriatic acid and then aerating since then.

FC 20
CC <.5
TC <20.5
pH 7.2
TA 80
CH 180
CYA 20

All the numbers tell me that I can let me kids finally swim, but the pool is unfortunately still cloudy.

By the way, I did immediately retest my hose tap water that I use to fill the pool, and the new test was cc 1. Whew!

[Watermom]

Did you ever have any algae that just recently got killed and might still be making your water cloudy? Are you (or have you this season) used anything other than bleach to chlorinate with?

How is the filter pressure behaving? You might try using some skimmer socks. Your numbers do look good. Not sure what is causing your cloudy water.

[Hszwill]

Hello,

One pool for sale! (Just kidding) Boy is this thing becoming the money pit. I sound like a fair weather friend, as the 3 previous seasons were great! Well, I still have a cloudy pool, and no matter how much I brush the pool, by the time I get back around to where I started, there is another powdery white layer on the steps to be brushed off-again. I can't figure out what this white stuff is. Could it be calcium from when it was added many weeks ago? Could it be DE not staying in the filter? Those are the only 2 white powdery products that I've added. I think the calcium is supposed to be a tad higher, but there is no way I am going to add any more white powdery products until the pool is clear.

Part of me wonders if this is not a water chemistry issue, but maybe an equipment issue instead (which would mean I am on the wrong thread). For example, the skimmers only pull water into them nicely for about 5 minutes, and then they just seem to stagnate. If I turn off the main drain the skimmers don't stagnate. Once I reopen the main drain for circulation the skimmers will go for about 5 minutes. If I turn the equipment off and on again, the skimmers will give me another 5 good minutes.

I have been using skimmer socks all season, and when I clean them they are always caked with grey powdery matter. I find the same stuff in the bag of the Polaris. Unfortunately, the wheels don't turn automatically at all on it, so it barely moves around the pool by way of the water traveling through it from the hose it is attached to.

Here are today's numbers:
FC 17
CC <.5
TC <17.5
pH 7.3
TA 100
CH 180
CYA 30

Thanks for previous advice and any you still might have!
Shannon

[CarlD]

Sounds more like lots of pollen to me. My skimmer sock gets caked all the time in the spring, and then it's a yellow paste, which, as the season goes on, becomes a green-gray paste, but not as thick. Are there a lot of evergreen trees around?

[Watermom]

I think you might be right that maybe this is not a chemistry problem but maybe a filter problem?? I'm going to ask a couple of people to take a look at this thread. Somebody will get back to you.

EDIT -- Carl we were apparently posting at the same time. The fact that it is grayish rather than yellowish is what makes me wonder if her DE filter isn't working properly???

[PoolDoc]

Hi Shannon;

Have you opened your DE filter, cleaned the grids, and inspected them for damage and holes?

The gray goo, plus the cloudiness, sounds an awful lot like a leaking DE filter that's allowing DE plus dirt to return to your pool.

PoolDoc

[Hszwill]

Ben was right-on with his prediction. Thank you Lisa for seeking help for me.

Fixed
• Took Jandy DE filter apart and discovered that there as indeed a 2 inch whole at the top because the piece that fits into the manifold was crushed and down inside the filter panel. In fact, the whole panel was crushed to pieces.
• Spent a good amount of time rinsing each panel individually. Boy were they all nasty.
• Ordered the part immediately, but realized when trying to put it into the slot where the damaged panel had been that it was too big.
• Ordered the partial panel immediately, and it fit perfectly. Within a week the pool water was no longer cloudy, and the skimmer socks weren't building up with cement looking goo. The new panel is shockingly white next to all the old panels.
• Water is perfectly balanced.

I still have DE problems, but I have decided to move to the Pool Equipment & Operations section for that.

Thank you,
Shannon

[Watermom]

You're welcome. Somebody will be able to help you get this straightened out. Good luck.