Solar Heater valve ????

[edlentz]

My son got me an early fathers day gift. A Solarheater 2 x 20 setup and a diverter valve kit. I got the heater mounted on a raised angled platform. Our pool is a 12 x 20 Intex AGI have a couple of questions: I am kinda handy with plumbing stuff, but for the life of me I can't figure out how a single valve would change the water flow from my pool to the heater and then back to the pool. Second question, I don't have the "factory" authorised brackets for mounting the solar heater I just used some angle brackets. But the thing really buckles up, right now it is about 4 inches in a buckled area. Is that normal??

thanks for any suggestions / help

[Watermom]

Ok. I am definitely not the want to help you on this problem, but just wanted to say that my solar heater has two valves, not one. I have to open one and shut the other to send the flow where I want it. Somebody will be along to help.

Nice gift! It will make a big difference in your pool. My pool is already up to 86 most days. Without my solar panel, i would be nowhere near that warm.

[mas985]

Here is a diagram on how solar is typically installed. The return side of the solar is plumbed through a check valve and teed back into the return line for the pool. Both check valves are a good idea especially if the panels will be elevated so water doesn't drain backwards through the filter. Also, if you want the panels to be self draining, they will need a vacuum release valve.

http://www.smarthome.com/images/3242dgm2.gif

[Watermom]

Mark,
That is a good diagram. Hopefully it will help our poster with his panel. Also, I noticed that you have commented on several of the threads I bumped up this morning that had not had any replies. Thanks for taking the time to do so. I'm sure these people will really appreciate your input.

[mas985]

No problem. It was actually hard to find a diagram that actually had the panels installed properly. Some had the return pipe of the wrong side, some didn't have the check valves and some didn't show the vacuum release. This one though was closest to ideal that I could find. However, a ground based installation could do without the VRC and filter check valve. Also, the isolation valves are nice to have but not necessary either.

[edlentz]

Thanks for the diagram. Looks like it has everything. And it got me thinking about the "diverted kit". I will post a drawing that I think might work later.

[edlentz]

This is simple and probably could use at least one check valve in it. My theory is that if the ball valve is closed the cool pool water will go through the solar collector and then to the pool, it has no choice. With the valve open the water will take the path of least resistance and go straight to the pool bypassing the solar. I realize it isn't an automatic operation, but hey it's cheap!

For the life of me I couldn't visualize how that kit was supposed to work, I even cruised the site where my son got the stuff with no luck. Once I say the drawing the mas895 provided it all came together in my pea brain!

If this looks like it will work or not work to you seasoned veterans please comment. thanks for the help so far!!

http://www.communiquest.biz/images/Solar.JPG

[CarlD]

actually, that's not necessarily true. Instead of a T-valve, I have ball valves around a Sched 40 standard T. The pressure there is so strong, I open the valves to my solar panels just a little, barely a trickle.

But my panels aren't on a roof.

[edlentz]

My panels are actually on a platform 4' high right next to the pool. So the most pressure I will have is from the pump. Which I should have is a day or two. I purchased a new 1 hp pump on line and got one that leaked like a sieve, so I am waiting on a replacement. At the moment I am using the small cartridge pump/filter that came with the pool.

[CarlD]

Oh...I didn't read it clearly. Easy as pie! I don't think you need a bigger pump.

I had an Intex 15' round donut with their 1/6hp pump-filter and I ran a 4x10 solar panel with it with no problem. 4x10 and 2x20 are the same size. Your pump is probably a little bigger as the 15' was 3500 gallons and yours is 6500 gallons

I didn't need to divert the flow but ran it through the panels. I did have to re-plumb them so the inflow was at one end and the outflow at the other. It came with its own valve and I found I had to close it down to about 80% or the flow was too weak to the return. With that, my pool turned into a hot tub hitting 105 deg at one point!

I then put a 4x10 and a 4x20 on my parents' pool--13,000 gallons and 3/4hp pump. I used a 4-way valve that could route all the flow to the return, the panels, or both, and used, again a ball valve to slow the flow to the panels. At the time, I didn't cut a return from the panels, just put hose over the side. It worked amazingly well considering they only had 6 hours of direct sun on the water and panels. A chilly 78 deg pool became a comfortable refreshing 84 deg pool.

So, based on my own successes with solar panels, I don't think you need to convert to the 1 hp pump. If it's full-rated, then it is 'way overkill for your pool--and you'll need a filter to match it. If it is a two speed you'll never need more than "low".

Currently, I have a 20,000 gallon FantaSea with solar panels equivalent to three 4x20 panels. I have a 1 hp 2spd and run it on "low" most of the time--panels and all. The panels are about 4' higher than the pump.

That's just my take on it. In case you hadn't guessed: I'm a big fan of free, solar heat!

There may be something buried in the archives about me, Intex and a solar panel.

[edlentz]

Hi Carl,

The larger pump is to go with the S180T Sand filter I have I dislike having to change the filter cartridges every week. So If I get most of what you are saying is that I might have to much flow and I might have to back it off some with a valve in the input to the panels. The pump I am going to use is a single speed. I have thought about re-using the original pump from the pool package but the extra hoses and stuff is unappealing.

[mas985]

With the way you are proposing your setup, there is no way to shut off the flow to the panels so they will likely always have water flowing through them. If that is what you want, then it is fine. A 3-way valve instead of the first TEE as shown in the original picture will allow control either way and probably cost the less than two two way valves.

Also, it looks like you have removed the vacuum release valve which means you will need to drain the panels manually in the winter and that they will contain water when the pump is off.

As for the pump, I agree with Carl. I am using a 1/2 HP to run solar on a 25' roof so you really don't need much of a pump to run solar. With only 4' rise, you could probably get away with the pump you have or at least try it before getting a new pump.

[edlentz]

I have a new pump (1hp)already, just not installed. I like the pump and the sand filter, it kept the pool spotless last year. The pump/filter that came with it couldn't even keep up with the floaties. I realize the pump is overkill but that is the size that came with the filter that was given to me. I thought of the 3 way valve and looked for them online. I have two two-way valves already. This is only our fourth year with a pool. So I am pretty new at this stuff. What I do like for sure is the Salt water chlorinator that came with the pool. It was maint free last year.

As far as the vacuum break, I live in Michigan so I will most likely take the solar down at the end of the season anyway.

[CarlD]

Well, I like a sand filter myself!

Since you've made the decision, let's make the most of it.

You can easily make your own setup if you've done a little PVC Schedule 40 gluing. It's easy to do. You can do it with 3 ball valves (if you want to get REALLY fancy or just 2, which is enough. AttackUgh! ATTACH a Tee at the end of the pipe coming back from the filter to your return. After the Tee, put a ball valve on each leg of the Tee. Then connect from one Tee to your return, and the other to your solar panel. Generally, your return valve will be fully open but your solar panel may be anything from full off to fully open. A little experimenting will find the optimum setting--where the panel's working GREAT and the return to the pool is strong and solid.

The third ball valve would come before the Tee as a single shut-off, but you don't need it.

[edlentz]

Thanks Carl I think I got what you are saying Does this look like what you mean? http://www.communiquest.biz/images/Solar2.JPG

Thanks again

[CarlD]

Yes, but I cannot answer for joining the output from the panel to the return prior to the pool. I don't know if that will actually work or create a stasis in the panel so the water doesn't move. A plumber or expert on that can tell you.

My system and preference is to have a separate return for the heated water, separate from the main return. That always works and is simple.

[Watermom]

My heated water goes to my main (and only) return. Works fine.

[CarlD]

Thanks, Lisa. That's one of those plumbing things I'm never sure of so I just avoid getting into that situation.

[mas985]

The horizontal ball valve will create a pressure differential between the input and output of the panels which then creates the flow through the panels. Even if it is completely open, there should still be enough pressure difference to cause at least a little bit of flow through the panels.

The vertical valve should only be needed if you want to isolate the panels and shut them off. However, it should be left fully open when running the panels because that path already has more head loss than the bypass route so water flow will always favor the bypass unless the horizontal valve is partially closed.

[edlentz]

Thanks everyone for the comments. I will be proceeding as soon as the Fedex guy shows up with my replacement pump! Supposedly it is on the truck for delivery.

Thanks again